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    AN APPEAL TO PRESERVE BLACK CULTURE

    Beneath the Spin * Eric L. Wattree

    PROLOGUE

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    AN APPEAL TO PRESERVE BLACK CULTURE
    .
    I’m a lifelong musician who’s been devoted to jazz every since I was a child, and I take great pride in what jazz has contributed to the Black community, America, and the world. I also have a deep devotion to my culture. For both of those reasons I’ve decided to devote much of my waking hours to the promotion of a woman who I’m convinced is highly significant to what Black people represent as a culture, and as an artistic force in the world. Her name is Rita Edmond, and she’s come along at just the right time, because the jazz world really needs someone like her now. But due to America’s current self-serving environment, its elitist media is completely ignoring her, and it’s a slap in the face of jazz. It’s, literally, like ignoring Sarah Vaughan.
    .
    But this situation is not just a result of the White establishment alone. It’s also a result of what many Black people have allowed themselves to become. It’s sad that I even have to make this appeal for an artist of this caliber. In the past, jazz flourished because musicians promoted one another. Back in the day Jimmy Heath would have told a promoter or club owner, “If you like me, you’ll also like a guy by the name John Coltrane. You need to check him out.” Jimmy would do that in the name of jazz, because he recognized that by promoting jazz, he was also promoting himself.  Thelonious Monk even went to jail for Bud Powell to prevent Bud from being barred from playing in New York, because Monk knew that Bud was good for jazz. But today the attitude seems to be, “I got mine, so you’re just gonna to have to struggle like I did.” Many even go so far as to HIDE possible connections - and then we wonder why our traditions are disappearing. So the very last thing we should want is for someone like Rita Edmond to be a secret, because she’s not just another singer; she’s without a doubt one of the most significant jazz divas alive in the world today.
    .
    As Black people, we’ve  got to start recognizing our priorities. This is our CULTURE we’re talking about here, and the failure to promote it whenever, and however, we can only serves to diminish it. Yet, many Black people fail to support the very best in who we are. Rita has only one stumbling block - when it comes to the Black culture, the American media has conditioned us to fixate on only one thing, the booty-shacking frivolity of entertainment. I’m not criticizing entertainment, but a culture has to be recognized for more than just shaking their booty to gain and maintain the world’s respect. It was the dazzling technical abilities of people like Dizzy, Bird, Monk and Miles that made the world begin to recognize that there was much more to Black people than the slow-minded Stepin Fetchit-like people in which we had previously been portrayed. Thus, it was the seriousness of jazz as an art form that brought the Black culture into the modern world, and musicologists at universities and conservatories all over this planet are still scratching their heads and trying to figure out what Bird was doing over 60 years after his death. 
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    In that regard, people in nations as far flung as Russia and Thailand have thrown flowers at Rita’s feet, fans have come to Thailand from as far away as Japan just to hear her sing, and when she was leaving Russia people met her at the train station with roses, and a young piano prodigy (whose father brought him to several of Rita’s performances) ran up and hugged her. These people gave her that kind of love because they recognize and appreciate excellence, and they know that Rita is a part of a great tradition. But most importantly, these people haven’t been subjected to the Hillbilly mentality of America’s attitude towards Black culture. So they see this woman for what she is - a world-class talent. Rita Edmond is not just an entertainer . . . she’s an artist - and one of the world’s greatest.  Check her out for yourself:
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    Beneath the Spin * Eric L. Wattree
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    Presenting Ms. Rita Edmond - Meet The Contemporary Face of True Jazz Royalty .
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    Presenting Ms. Rita Edmond - Meet The Contemporary Face of True Jazz Royalty
     

    If you’re a jazz lover and want to look upon the contemporary face of jazz royalty, take a moment to go check out Ms. Rita Edmond on Youtube. She's the jazz world's best kept secret.  She's currently working on her third CD, but even on her first CD, she made it abundantly clear to this writer that she hit the ground fully seasoned as one of the greatest jazz singers alive today. I know, that's a mighty lofty claim to heap onto the shoulders of a relatively new artist, but I'm not given to hyperbole, so I fully intend to back up my assertion with the contents and attachments to this piece.

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    Ms. Edmond moves between sultry sophistication, hard driving swing, and childlike innocence without any effort at all. There are many great singers out there , but from the very first bar of anything Rita does, she clearly distinguishes herself as one of those rare individuals who was born to do exactly what she’s doing, and nothing else. She swings with the effortless grace of a Sliver Shadow cruisin' down Pacific Coast Highway, and her ballads are lush with sultry passion, personal depth, and individuality.
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    You can't "learn" to sing like Rita Edmond. You either have it, or you don't, and there's only one or two lucky few in a generation who do - but Rita, like Ella and Sarah, is one of those lucky few. But don’t just take my word for it, go check her out for yourself and I’m sure you’ll agree with me that she’s a once in a generation talent, and clearly the heir apparent to some of the greatest divas that jazz has ever known.
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    Along with this piece I'm attaching three links to make my point - ‘Here’s to Life,’ ‘Embraceable You' (Live at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art) , and ‘It Might As Well Be Spring’ - and each tune shows a different side of her tremendous, and still growing, musical personality.
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    ‘Here’s to Life’ is a beautiful ballad that’s been done by some of the greatest singers who’s ever lived, yet Ms. Edmond’s version is as good or better than any version of this tune that’s ever been recorded. The soaring passion that she brings to this tune makes it almost impossible for anyone who’s ever had to struggle through life’s adversities to listen to with a dry eye.  Artie Butler - the multi-Grammy Award winning composer (and Barbara Streisand's musical director) - said of Ms. Edmond, "Rita Edmond knows exactly what to do with a song like 'Here's To Life.' She brings the listener into the music as she sings, making you feel she's singing just for you. That's indeed a gift."
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    'Embraceable You,' (featuring Harold Land, Jr. on piano) demonstrates the ease in which she can establish the mood of a song and captivate an audience. It also shows an artist who is so comfortable in serenading an audience that it seems like she was born on stage. And after the piano solo, notice the effortless spontaneity in which she throws in a lick that's so exquisite that it sounds like it should have been written into the tune. You won't be able to miss it because the audience places an exclamation point of approval immediately afterward, as she casually, and routinely, moves on to the next phrase, as though it's all in a night's work. 
    .
    Rita Edmond and Phil Woods Protégé
    and International
    Jazz Great, Robert Anchipolosky
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    Finally, she does ‘It Might As Well Be Spring,’ a tried and true jazz standard. Not everyone can do this tune well, because it’s such a jazz staple that it’s hard for a singer to put their personal stamp on it, and whenever they try, they either over sing or under sing the tune.  But Rita swings through it effortlessly and makes it her own. King Pleasure himself would smile at her rendition.
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    I also wanted to add Ms. Edmond's rendition of ‘This Can’t Be Love’ as an attachment, but unfortunately, it's not available on Youtube. Nevertheless, it deserves a mention. On that tune Ms. Edmond displays yet another part of her musical vocabulary - her growing chops as a scatter and her ability to swing with the best of them. In this case, she scats in unison with yet another powerhouse, tenor sax player Ricky Woodard, and they’re pushed forward by the hard driving rhythms of Albert ‘Tootie’ Heath of the illustrious Heath Brothers on drums - and when it comes to the aristocracy of jazz, they don’t come any more blue-blooded than Tootie. She's also regularly accompanied by Nancy Wilson's keyboard player, Llew Matthews, who has also played with legendary jazz giants such as Jackie McLean and Woody Shaw, and the sweet-struttin' Edwin Livingston on bass.  So Rita is regularly being tested by fire, and she literally dances through the flames with blissful abandon.
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    Earlier this year Ms. Edmond toured Russia, bringing the house down with the late Phil Woods' protégé, Robert Anchipolosky, and at this writing she's wrapping up a three month gig at  the luxurious Oriental Hotel in Bangkok, Thailand, where she's doing her part to show jazz lovers, politicians, and  ambassadors from all over the world what we bring to the table.  She's also just completed a project with  her good friend and fabulous sax player, Dale Fielder, "Resiliance,"on the Clarion Jazz label that's monstrous. While very contemporary in it's concept, the quality of musicianship is a throwback to the way the big boys used to do it. 
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    Ms. Edmond approaches jazz like she's been here before; it's like she walked on stage fresh from 52nd Street. For that reason, whenever I hear her sing it makes my eyes moist, because I can here Ella and Sarah whispering softly in the background, "Show 'em how it's done, baby girl." And she has a natural musical kinship to Dexter Gordon, whether she's singing a ballad or swinging, and when you're as familiar with Dexter Gordon's music as I am (his family lived two blocks away from my grandparents, and my mother went to Jefferson High School with him), it's a scary thing to watch. Her approach to phrasing and the feeling she evokes is the exactly the same kind of feeling that Dexter had on his tenor.  I played Dexter for her doing "You've Changed," and she said, "Hey!  He sounds just like me!"  I had to laugh. I told her, "No, Rita, You sound like HIM."

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    Rita with the former Australian Ambassador,
    Ireland Ambassador, and the
    Portuguese Ambassador
     

    But in spite of her talent, Ms.  Edmond is a very innocent sort whose emotions are always very close to the surface - I think that may be the key to the beauty of her musicianship, but in spite of her unassuming manner, when she picks up a mic someone else emerges.  Just the touch of a mic seems to transform her. It gives her a  tremendous confidence, and a unique sense of individualism that serves to produce a flawless musical delivery - a delivery that seems to say, “There’s a new diva in town,” and I say, it’s about time!
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    PS: Something just happened that made my blood run cold. I didn't know whether or not it was appropriate to mention it in the context of this article, but it was such a coincident that I feel that I would be remiss if I didn't say something about it.  As I was writing about the kinship of the music of Dexter Gordon and Rita Edmond - before I posted - I received a contact. It was from Dexter's wife, Maxine Gordon (or as Dex would call her, "Lady Gordon").  She sent me a friend request.  My last contact with her was over two years ago, so that was one hell of a coincident . . . or was it?  

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    Eric L. Wattree
    wattree.blogspot.com
    .
    Religious bigotry: It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does.

    Comments

    Is the difference in audience attendance due to venue? Are blacks a small percentage at large, expensive jazz venues, but more likely to hear newer acts at small local jazz clubs? A person in Harlem may be absent from Lincoln Center but attending more local performances. Prices at JazzFest keep many black NOLA residents away.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/01/how-the-rich-stole-jazz...

    Some studies on black audiences at jazz concerts probably don't look at the full spectrum of black jazz fans.

    http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2011/08/do-black-people-still-listen-to-j...

    Edit to add:

    People access music differently now, In many cities jazz radio stations are rare or relegated to weekends. Record/CD  stores are dying. You get music from Apple Music, Pandora, etc. You as the consumer have to know that you like jazz in order to track down jazz. Jazz is not brought to you in the relatively easy matter that you will be exposed to Kanye, Beyoncé, etc.

     


    "As Black people, we’ve  got to start recognizing our priorities. This is our CULTURE we’re talking about here, and the failure to promote it whenever, and however, we can only serves to diminish it. Yet, many Black people fail to support the very best in who we are. Rita has only one stumbling block - when it comes to the Black culture, the American media has conditioned us to fixate on only one thing, the booty-shacking frivolity of entertainment."

    They know about her all over Africa, Europe, and Asia - even Russia!!!  In Russia they came to see her armed with copies of her CDs to sign. Why not the United States? I'll tell you why, because we're being programmed and conditioned to think in a certain way.  In short, we're being dumbed down - and not just musically.  Music is only a part of the process. Scientific studies have been done demonstrating that music stimulates the mind - how we think, and our ability to process information.  So the establishment has made it a point to keep the music we listen to bland, frivolous, and structurally child-like in order to keep us lazy-minded. They are determined not to spawn another generation of independent thinkers like the Baby Boomers. They want sheep.
     

     

     


    WHEN JACKIE'S BAG BECAME MY OWN.
    .
    When Jackie McLean first appeared on the scene he swung it like nobody else;
    He stood all alone, with that bittersweet tone, owing nobody, only himself.
    With his furious attack he could take you back to the beauty of Yardbird’s song,
    but that solemn moan made it all his own, as burning passion flowed
    lush from his horn. Hearing “Love and Hate” made Jazz my fate, joyous anguish
    dripped blue from his song. He both smiled and cried and dug deep-down inside,
    until the innocence of my childhood was gone.
    .
    He took me to a place that had no face, I was so young when I heard his sweet call,
    but he parted the fog and in no time at all, a child of bebop sprung fully enthralled.
    As I heard this new sound, and embraced the profound, childish eyes now saw as a man; I stood totally perplexed, but I couldn’t step back, from the hunger of my mind to expand.
    .
    I saw Charlie and Lester, and a smiling young Dexter, as I peered into Jackie’s sweet horn; it was a place that I knew, though I’d never been to, but a place that I now call my home.
    .
    .
    Rest well, Jackie
    .
    JACKIE MCLEAN: A STORY THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD
    http://wattree.blogspot.com/2006/06/jackie-mclean-story-that-needs-to-be...

    The music establishment cares about one thing, making money. The establishment isn't pushing rap to stick it to the black man or to keep the people stupid. They're not pushing bland pop rock to keep the people lazy minded. They're pushing it because it sells. If the people bought jazz albums in numbers like they buy rap or rock the establishment would sign jazzers and produce jazz albums.

    Jazz was never popular. The boomers didn't listen to jazz. They listened to pop rock and protest rock, most of it musically bland however progressive the lyrics might be. Before the rock era jazz wasn't popular. Dizzy, Bird, or Coltrane were never big sellers. On rare occasions Armstrong or Ella Fitzgerald would do a bland jazzy pop number that might get onto the best seller lists but the hard core jazz bebop players never became best sellers.

    Jazz has never been popular because it's usually more complex than pop and requires training to understand. Either explicit training like learning a musical instrument or implicit training by listening to ever increasing levels of complex music. And it's not just jazz. Music has always been this way. Before jazz there was popular folk music for the musically uneducated and more complex music, that we now call classical, for those who educated themselves to understand the more complex music of their era.


    Ocean-Kat, you said,
    .
    "The boomers didn't listen to jazz. They listened to pop rock and protest rock, most of it musically bland however progressive the lyrics might be."

    You're talking about White Boomers who were into folk and rock, but the world doesn't revolve around White folks alone - and the fact that you've betrayed the fact that you seem to think it is, is quite telling.  Black Boomers (like myself, who didn't even listen to folk or rock) were listening to Bird, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Jackie McLean, Eddie Jefferson, King Pleasure, Sarah Vaughan, etc. And that was also true of White beatniks and many other White people.  I know, because many of them were my friends.
    .

     

     

     

     


    There's always a minority of more musically literate people who listen to the more complex music of their era. Perhaps everyone you knew listened to jazz but I don't believe for a second that that the majority of black boomers listened to jazz. I can't speculate as to who were the popular musicians of that time since I didn't start listening to rock until I was 16 and started dating. I just listened to whatever rock my girlfriends listened to. My dad was a low level sax player, playing in wedding and dance bands, and we listened to jazz in our house. Most likely the majority of black boomers were listening to black rockers and blues singers. I'm sure there are billboard lists of the top selling singles and albums for the black population of that time and that list would rarely if ever see Bird or Dizzy there. Black or white the top selling music for boomers was rock. Hell, the white rockers stole it from the black rockers.

    You can keep thinking that the music people listen to is somehow controlled by the establishment but it's not. It's controlled by the people who spend money buying albums and singles and now days, downloads from Itunes. If there was a strong interest in jazz the market would supply it and there's nothing the establishment could do to control it. The establishment hated rock and roll and did everything they could to destroy it. And failed.


    How did the observation that jazz requires acquiring ears to listen to it become a telling example of the presumption of a white perspective that you refer to?

    I am deeply affected by specific works of choral music created by specific people created centuries apart. It took many years for me to hear what now most deeply affects me. Are you going to tell me that my experience is a simple extension of my participation in a "culture"? I only know five people who share my passion. Two of them are "white."

     


    Is this one?


    Not a choral piece.

    I've read about this women, many mocking essays. But I never took the occasion to listen to her sing. Interestingly enough, she's actually better than I expected. She has a good ear. She has potential. If her voice was trained she could be good.


    Ah, more like this:

    Or maybe a more Bosnian twist...


    More like this: Tallis Scholars

    Or like this:

     

    Or Bach's Passions or Mass in B Minor or .............

     


    Consumption of entertainment has changed. Music is digital and musicians are promoted via social media. Local colleges or NPR stations have jazz programs.You can find jazz stations from all around the country and stream music on your phone or tablet. The consumer has to search for what is available. Educating the public via social media may expose new people to the wonders of jazz.

    Many jazz magazines are digital as well as print. Try to find the jazz magazines at national bookstore chain and you face a challenge. The magazines are on the bottom shelf hidden from view. There are magazine services like Texture that, for a fee, give you access to a host of print magazines in digital form. You can read everything from Time to Wine Enthusiast. You won't find a jazz magazine among the available fare. (You won't find Ebony either). This needs to be addressed.

    In order to expand, jazz is going to have to market itself in ways that grabs the attention of how people now receive information. Jazziz magazine has a digital option that allows you to sample music from a variety of artists. Jazz has to remind people that it exists. Individual artists, music distributors and radio stations have to focus on outreach. Social media may be the best start.


    You people seem to be missing the point of this piece. I'm not talking about record retail, how you go about buying records, or how many people listen to what kind of music.  I'm talking about Black people supporting their own culture - period. Our tastes, attitudes, and even our religious beliefs are programmed and conditioned by the society we happen to live in.  That's why people in different parts of the world listen to different kinds of music, have different modes of dress, and have different religious beliefs. The religious beliefs that many are willing to die to defend, for  example, are simply an accident of birth. The very same person who is a devout Christian who was born in Georgia, would more than likely be a devout Jew if born in Israel, a devout Muslim if born in Iraq, or a devout Buddhist if born in China. So the point of this piece is that Black people should put more thought into supporting the excellence within their own culture, and not allow themselves to be homogenized. That's it.  It seems quite simple to me.


    Black culture is surviving. It is evolving. There are new sounds and new forms of expression. Jazz itself was considered noise at one point. Music changes. Dance changes. Black elders often pointed out how musical expression was destroying black culture. The Charleston, the Twist, etc were the Devil's music.

    The Museum of African-American History opens this month. There has never been more production of books by and about black people. There is junk music and literature and music, but there is also quality. Tastes have changed.Young people are receiving inspiration from  reading Ta-Nehisi Coates and others. They are listening to new sounds and gaining inner strength. They do not have to hear the same sounds their elders heard to be part of the ongoing development of black culture.


    "you people"

     

    Never a felicitous opening gambit...

     


    Yes, Jollyroger - the people who commented.
    .
    I was speaking to all of them collectively, because every comment seemed to be an exercise in nitpicking rather than focusing on the point of the piece.  So I'll focus on the subject matter, and let those who don't have anything better to do dwell on the niceties of polite society. 


    I'm all for raising the musical literacy of people. I would love to see the music I prefer get a bigger share of the market. I'd love to see both jazz musicians and classical musicians get more support for their art.  I just disagree with your analysis of the cause and your proposed solution. The establishment isn't the problem. All musical choices are available on the radio and even more so, the internet. The question is why do people tend to choose the simpler forms of music and rarely grow beyond it. How can we increase music literacy?

    Your appeals to blacks to support their culture by listening to black jazz musicians won't work. Young people will not listen to music that doesn't move them emotionally or that they aren't musically literate enough to understand. Just as appealing to white youth to support "white" culture by listen to "white" classical music would also fail.


    How is Black Culture a separate form of life that needs to protect itself from homogenization?

    You rail against the rappers who are immersed in the language of separation by pointing to how it is received by the common ground we have established in our society.

    Are you promulgating a separate but equal form of identity? I thought one of the goals of the Civil Rights Movement was to smash us together so that we were one culture with many different sources of tradition and points of view. You seem to jump on one side or the other of that question as it suits your mood.


    One historian argues that white musicians have been overlooked in the development of jazz.

    Link to review of "Lost Chords White Musicians and Their Contributions to Jazz 1915-1945" by Richard M. Sudhalter 

    https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Chords-Musicians-Contribution-1915-1945/dp/0...


    Thanks for the link.

    For some reason, the first thing I thought of reading it was the World Saxophone Quartet.

    Pretty darn Black:

     

     


    Black like this?


    You know, Moat,

    Ironically, I've never like this group. They've too sappy, and they're not musically articulate enough. I like Supersax, headed up by the White cowboy, Med Flory. He used to always play bad guys in John Wayne movies and on television. But he's paid a bigger tribute to Bird than any Black person alive. It's beautiful, but it's also sad.It's beautiful that this White guy cared enough about Black culture to make the effort to tackle task, but it's sad that Black people didn't think to do it.  He put Supersax together and all they did was played Charlie Parker solos, note for note. I have everything they've ever done (with the exception of what my beautifully scoundrelous father stole from me before he died). That's one of the things that I admire about the White culture. They're willing to make the effort to do things like that. Black musicians had nearly 20 years to do it, but they never did.  But Med Flory took the time to remind an entire generation of Black people of who Charlie Parker was, and that's the kind of thing I'm trying to get Black people to open their eyes to in this piece.
    .
    Image result for Med Flory

     


    I had not heard that group before. Excellent ensemble playing.

    I know that WSQ is not to everyone's taste but I am surprised to hear them called sappy. When I saw them live, they improvised and experimented with changes that required a lot from this listener to stay with them..


    Moat,
    .
    Do Jews have their own culture?  Do Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, and Hespanics have their own cultural traditions?  Then why shouldn't Black people? 
    .
    You said,
    .
    "I thought one of the goals of the Civil Rights Movement was to smash us together so that we were one culture with many different sources of tradition and points of view."
    .
    Well, you thought wrong. The Civil Rights Movement was about EQUAL JUSTICE and anti-discrimination, not the right to become White and giving up our cultural heritage. Who wants that - do you?  In addition, if we have "many different sources of tradition and points of view," as you said, we're not one culture; we're a society with MANY cultures, but have sense enough to co-exist without any one culture trying to shove their values and traditions down everybody else's throat. Can't you see that!!!? If we're all gonna mesh, whose values, traditions, and cultural tastes are we gonna mesh under?  
    .
    I hate Bach, because he doesn't know how to play a blues scale, rock sounds like noise to me, and I'm sure that jazz sounds like noise to many White people.  A person couldn't pay me a thousand dollars to suffer through a Rolling Stones concert every night for a week. So it's important for everyone to be able to maintain their own cultural tastes and traditions. Our various cultural traditions define us, so if we lose it, we're nobody, and that's what I'm fighting against with respect to the Black community.


    We are not losing our culture. Jazz is evolving like other forms of music. It is a full time job to keep up with everything going on in the black community. Blacks conquered so-called white fields like fencing, golf, swimming, hockey, etc. Blacks head medical, science, and law departments, Blacks conquered Yale, Harvard, and MIT. There are more blacks in college than at any point in time. Blacks are using social media to take the fight to the powers that be. 

    North Carolina voter suppression program was slapped down by the Supreme Court. The protests led by Reverend Barber got results. Black protests continue because oppression continues. Colin Kaepernick is risking his financial future protesting police abuse. He follows in the footsteps of Jim Brown. Black culture goes on.

     

     


    Funny you should mention Bach since he pretty much invented the harmonic structure the Africans in America expropriated to create jazz. Cultural appropriation is as old as humanity and it goes each and every way when cultures meet.


    Ocean-Kat,

    While I don't want to denigrate in any way the contributions that either Bach, or any other European musician, has made to music, your argument is as old as jazz itself. This is not about Black as oppose to White. I don't think in those terms. It's petty, ignorant, tribalist, and the very thing that I've dedicated my life to fighting against. Every culture has greatest within it. Some of my favorite jazz musicians are White. Phil Woods, who just died this year, was one of my very favorite saxophone players of all time. I, literally, got sick (I had to go to the doctor for stomach problems) when he died, not only because he was one of the greatest musicians who ever lived, but because Rita was looking forward to his appearing on her next CD (she toured in Russia with Phil's protege, Robert Anchipovolsky). What we're talking about here is Black culture and Black innovation and creativity - period. But to try to compare Bach's contribution to music with the innovations of John Coltrane is like saying that the guy who invented the hammer should be given partial credit for the space shuttle.

    *
    JOHN COLTRANE


    *

    THE GREAT PHIL WOODS AND QUINCY JONES PLAYING QUINTESSENCE IN 1961 WHEN THEY WERE BOTH MERE KIDS - A TUNE THAT MADE BOTH OF THEIR CAREERS ("WHO IN HELL IS THAT YOUNG WHITE BOY ON SAXOPHONE!!!?")


     

     

     


     


    Get real, you have denigrated every form of music except pre 60's jazz. Usually in breathtakingly ignorant ways like claiming you hate Bach because he doesn't know how to play a blues scale. All you've really shown is that you know so little about Bach and classical music that you are incapable of even making a rational critique of it. Yet in the face of such stunning ignorance you still pontificate on the subject amazingly thinking anyone might take you seriously. That you can find a rare white person to praise if they play your approved version of jazz proves nothing.

    All music built on the music that preceded it. There would be no Coltrane without Armstrong or Duke Ellington, or more accurately, Coltrane would have been a great dixieland or swing musician if he was born earlier. Not only would there have been no jazz without Bach but there would have been no Igor Stravinsky. Everyone, black or white, who has studied jazz and music history acknowledges Bach's influence. His codification of harmonic structure out of the parallel octaves and fifths of Gregorian chants was as innovative as Coltrane or any other jazz great.


    The real underlying point is that if you disagree with Wattree, you are part of the failure of Black culture on a multitude of levels.


    Kat,

    I don't like Bach, because he doesn't speak to my view of the world - period. So calm down and begin to recognize that everyone doesn't think like you do. Your view of the world isn't THE view of the world. I learned that when I was 12 years old. So as much as I want people to view reality from my point of view, I recognize that I don't corner the market on either knowledge, wisdom, or intellect, so I just move on. I suggest that you do the same, or, if you truly believe that there would be no John Coltrane without Bach, you should write an article about it and make your case.  Who knows, if you're effective enough you might change my mind. But ranting and name-calling because a person disagrees with your view of reality is completely counterproductive and ineffective. That's one of the biggest problems that we have in the world today, isn't it?  So be a part of the solution by becoming an educator, not a part of the problem by promoting mindless emotionalism. That's not intellect.  That's brain stem thinking, like snakes and other critters who lack a cerebral cortex.  


    I don't like Bach or listening long to most classical music - a few minutes of Beethoven suffices, but I recognize Bach as important for the music of Roland Kirk, Butthole Surfers, Bulgarian Women's Choir, David Bowie and Garbage. Even Leon Payne and The Weather Girls. Maybe I'm on Drugs.


    I was never partial to Beethoven's fifth though for some reason it's become his most well know work. For many the only thing they know of him. I think my favorite Beethoven composition is his 7th symphony 2nd movement.

     


    Look wattree, I only know you from what you write and you're the one who proclaimed you hate Bach because he doesn't know how to play a blues scale. I'm sure you know that's nonsense though you'll never admit it. It's pretty clear from your posts that you've never taken the time to listen to classical music and know almost nothing about it though you'll never admit that either. Unlike you, who created a whole thread just to convince Ramona that she should listen to jazz and would love it if she did, I think it's ok that you don't want to spend time learning about classical music. There's only so many hours in a day and more things to study than hours exist. One must pick and choose.  I just wish you wouldn't pretend to knowledge you don't possess and pontificate on it. It's easy to do, I'll show you how.

    I, oceankat, have almost never listened to rap and know almost nothing about it. I actually don't know if there's anything good or valuable in it.. There may be some interesting rhythms or clever valuable messages in rap. The lyrics might be great poetry or total crap. Never listened to it, don't know. That's why I've never commented on or criticized rap here at dag and I never will.


    You misrepresent what I said, Wattree. I don't want to shove values down people's throats. I don't accept that sharing a common ground requires the zero sum game of one group dominating the others.

    Cultures that keep themselves apart do that by keeping themselves to themselves. I did not bring up the Civil Rights movement as a teleological principle but as a condition that was  designed to make the separateness you desire more difficult as it becomes more successful in bringing about true equality in our society. 

    The integration of our public schools, the integration of all races in the work place, and the struggle for justice where the damn lady keeps the blindfold on are all heading toward us living in a shared space that is quite different from those who preserve their culture by educating their children separately, enforce the use of a shared language, and keep their business enterprises connected within their own group as much as possible.

    So, when I asked about your desire for a Separate but Equal environment, I did not mean to cast aspersion on the goal. I just have no idea how you are going to create it without using the tools other groups have.


    Moat,

    I can only go by what you said.  Reread it.


    Re read my own comment? After explaining in detail what I meant? I didn't continue the conversation to correct your first reply.
    You present a view of how cultural heritages are preserved and I am challenging that view. It is that simple.


    It is that simple,

    even though for some it's not.

    Just leave it that way.

      Persuading a small molehill

      that it's not a mountain fails.

     


    Moat,

    You're looking at reality from a purely White perspective. That's one of the biggest problems that we have in this country. You may have the purest motives, but you've been conditioned to see the world through White eyes, and the world isn't white, as American demographics are about to show - and probably to your complete shock.  But the establishment is 20 years ahead of you - and unfortunately, with the help of much of a clueless Black electorate - they're trying their very best to have your back.  That's what the coming election is about, and why the two nominees are two of the most hated candidates in American history, and why Black people are being shot down like dogs in the street. That's also why I've been fighting so hard over having to choose between cyanide and strychnine. While my grandchildren are probably going to be secure and solidly middle class just like my children, nevertheless, I don't want them to have to live in a world that is viewed through exclusively White eyes, because from what I've drawn from your comment, regardless to how well meaning, White eyes are blind to anything other than a White view of reality. Whether or not Black people should support their culture shouldn't even be a debate. That's not a radical concept.

      


    You keep putting in my mouth the proposition that says Black people should not support their own culture. After repeated attempts to correct that perception, I accept that I am just another White guy for you. Very well then.

    This White person has many limitations and cannot claim to know what is best for everybody White or Not. But for what its worth, I grew up in a family that was taught to resist the prejudices that shaped the community around us. My parents paid a price for that. I don't make a claim of equivalence in regards to anybody else's suffering but their decision is a big part of my life experience. So that is my culture and I try to preserve it. Just like you strive to preserve yours.

    I don't live in your White and Black world. My only contention is that you don't either.


    Okay moat,

    Lets drop it. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you said, because I know better than anybody how it feels to be misunderstood.  


    I BEAR WITNESS

    I sit, I watch,
    and I grow ever more obsolete
    as I bear witness.

    .
    I bear witness
    to a once vibrant people greedily gulping down society’s hemlock. Even as they claim to be “keeping it real,“ they continue to maim, kill, and despise their own in hot pursuit of the prime directive with the passion of a sheetless klan.
    .
    I bear witness
    to Black fists in the air in false solidarity promoted by self-serving poverty pimps as the world looks on and giggle at crooked fingers pointed elsewhere.
    .
    I bear witness
    to the superficial attempt to ban the “N-word” while the new "un-niggas" stand around watching children killing children and fathers drugging sons, as they celebrate, lionize, and enrich those who denigrate the very womb of their culture with impunity.
    .
    I bear witness
    to a generation of lost knowledge, cut off from its roots by Ronnie’s “Just say no” generation of crack, greed, death, and political corruption; A generation where the new N-word is pronounced “Responsibility” and the keepers of the flame completely ignore the destructive power of "bitch", "slut", "whore", and "tramp."
    .
    I bear witness
    to the reckless disregard of the words uneducated, irresponsible, and classless. Should we not ban these words as well, or should we ban banning words altogether as we celebrate their meaning?
    .
    Yes, I do bear witness.
    I bear witness to a new world -
    a world where gross ignorance comes disguised as enlightenment, and funky sneakers look down with disdain upon the sweet smell of Florsheim; a world where saggin’ pants and gaudy glitter enable country bumpkins to masquerade as elegant, and the exquisite surrender of eloquence is the very essence of what it means to be hip.
    .
    Where's Langston? Where's Baldwin? Where's Oscar Brown, Jr?
    We need you stormin' this beach, because . . .
    .
    I now bear witness
    to a world where motherhood stands alone, to be “dope” renders a smile, and posterity is forced to embrace the wind for paternal sustenance; A world where the walking dead strut about rapping the wisdom of idiocy, and we praise the illiteracy of vulgar nursery rhymes as profound; a world where the mother of salvation's final gasp is compared to the pigmentation of brown paper bags.
    .
    Malcolm, Martin, where are you?
    I once stood with a crowd.
    Now seemingly alone, I'm forced to bear witness -
    horrific witness . . .
    to the imminent demise of our people,
    .
    And my heart bleeds.
    .


    THE CRIP WALK

    "KEEP IT GANGSTA, DAWG. KEEP IT GANGSTA!!!?"

    THIS IS THE IMAGE OF BLACK PEOPLE THAT JURORS HAVE IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS WHEN

    THEY LET ROGUE COPS OFF FOR SHOOTING OUR CHILDREN DOWN IN THE STREET.


    Hip Hop purists would argue that popular rap music lacks a message because the main purchasers of rap are white folks. Black stereotypes are played out on stage to entertain the white audience. 

    http://raprehab.com/drake-vs-lil-wayne-the-best-concert-ever/

    Young people criticize commercialized hip-hop and long for the days of music talking about fighting the power. The generation is not lost.

     


    I thought jurors were thinking of this, ever since like, uh, 30 years ago already?


    Jazz is not all there is to black culture. Black culture is science, medicine, astronomy, and a host of other endeavors as well as entertainment and sports. There is a new book "Hidden Figures" that reveals the story of black female mathematicians at NASA who help guide the missions into space. The story is slated for release as a film. Another new book "The Black Prince of Florence" tells the story of Alessandro de Medici, a man of African descent the son of a Medici Prince and a servant who seized power and ruled the city of Florence. Black culture has never been so accessible.

    Regarding music, Beyoncé obviously is not jazz, but look at the power of her  "Formation" video. The video depictions drove the wingnuts crazy. Beyoncé spoke truth to power and Conservatives were outraged. Joyful noises thrive. Black culture is alive.


    An aspect of black culture is to never stop fighting. Marilyn Mosby, the Baltimore City prosecuting attorney, lost all six cases against Baltimore police officers in the Freddie Gray case. She did not quit. Mosby won prosecution of a police officer who shot an unarmed man in August. Two other Baltimore police officers testified against the officer who was on trial. Mosby did not stop going after bad cops. That is black culture at it's finest.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-cagle-new-verdi...


    RM,

    Earlier I made the assumption that you were an older person. That's why I just dismissed you as clueless - always missing the big picture, unfocused, and a constant tendency to obfuscate. But I'm beginning to think I was wrong. I now think you must be a kid.


    Eric, TOS warning for personal attack. Next time you will be suspended. 


    Michael,

    I reviewed your warning and considered it valid. My comment WAS rather personal, and I want to apologize about that.  But in the future, please be just as vigilant with comments made toward me. They seem to go completely unnoticed.


    Reviews of young jazz artists find a high percentage of black artists. Black are continuing to innovate in jazz. Some may consider their efforts lacking. That comes down to personal taste.

    http://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/12-young-american-j...

    Blacks represent 13.2% of the population if 15-20% of attendees at jazz concerts are black, blacks are over-represented in jazz concerts.


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