MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
Heh heh heh - Russians paid US protesters - busloads? what else?
By PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/18/2017 - 8:58am |Ok, they say only $80K, but the number will grow as they dig in more, like with everything else.
Everything they complained about Hillary doing was something they were and still are, but to a much higher degree than fathomed.
URL:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/russian-troll-factory-activists-protests-us-election?CMP=twt_gu
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Comments
But all this recent news filling out all the things they really did says to me that it's looking more and more like collusion with the Trump campaign will never look like a clearcut case nor anything many will grab their impeachment pitchforks about. That the FBI/Comey attitude before the election was based on correct knowledge of this. That the Russian interference was not so much pro-Trump as just trying to sow chaos in our society any way they could, and Trump was just another divisive factor among many with which to sow chaos.
I.E. from this link in the article
Most of the ads appear to focus on divisive social and political messages across the ideological spectrum, touching on topics from LGBT matters to race issues to immigration to gun rights. A number of them appear to encourage people to follow Pages on these issues.
and
44% of total ad impressions (number of times ads were displayed) were before the US election on November 8, 2016; 56% were after the election.
It's like this: less and less looking like a reason for this cry from congresspersons "impeach!" Just a mess, that they got the chaos they wanted. That the Russian plot is exploiting the weaknesses in our society and then taking advantage of whatever comes from that, whether that be a Trump presidency or something else.
Makes me think of McCain's reactions since inauguration and how he is tried and true cold warrior fuhever. I suspect he sees the big picture Russian plot the way it was meant, and he wants to fight the enemy this way: Especially Let's return to regular order. .... We're getting nothing done.... Stop listening to the bombastic loudmouths on the radio and television and the Internet. To hell with them. They don't want anything done for the public good
Those suggestions may have had to do with him seeing what the Russians were accomplishing. For him it's not as much about Trump but about stopping the Russian divisiveness and chaos plot?
All I am saying is it's not starting to look good for major outrage about Trump campaign collusion with the Russians. Anybody looking at it will see a far bigger problem not just about Trump.
Which leaves the firing of Comey so far. Who's still talking about that?
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/18/2017 - 1:10pm
The part of the operation that is becoming revealed because the operators used media that can be researched by the public or journalism does not necessarily reflect progress or lack of progress in the sphere of criminal investigations. The courts don't care when people stop talking about an event.
It is important to separate whatever agenda the Russians had or have from the question of whether the Trump campaign exchanged items of value with them.
When cops bust somebody for buying an illegal substance, they don't wait for that person to get high to establish their intent.
by moat on Wed, 10/18/2017 - 6:55pm
Firing Comey was never going to bring impeachment. These are Republicans - they don't commit Sappuko over their own Monicas. Complicity in a treasonous scheme - both political and economic, plus damaging the GOP brand of guns, God and guano still has wheels. They can shut up the rubes who see behind the curtain only so long, even though they're more persistent than desired.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 12:08am
Circumstantial fun @ Daily Beast:
Trump Campaign Staffers Pushed Russian Propaganda Days Before the Election
Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump Jr. pushed messages from an account operated from Russia’s “troll farm”—including allegations of voter fraud a week before Election Day.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 12:34am
Circumstantial? Active. Gets deeper and deeper.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 1:22am
Huh? I don't understand why. I stand by circumstantial unless you have a convincing explanation how it's not.
How the heck could one possibly prove from this that Trump Jr. and Conway had knowledge that they weren't really retweeting Tennessee Republicans but actually knew they were retweeting paid Russian trolls? Anne Coulter retweeted lots of Tennessee Republican stuff too. Is she part of the conspiracy to pay Putin quid pro quo to help win?
Fact is they could have just liked the content! Trump Jr., Conway and Coulter are Americans (so far as we know at the current time!
) so doesn't matter who wrote the stuff they are retweeing.. Do you realize how far into free speech issues you are getting into here?
The way to deal with this is to write an article exposing the situation like the four Daily Beast reporters did. Not claiming it's treasonous activity to be pursued in court. Not without having some evidence that the Trump campaign basically said to the Russians posting at Tennessee Republicans: here's some pay, you're working for us now, write us some more campaign stuff and we'll retweet it.
Actually does make me think that this whole disinfo approach is not just dead in the water as to causing public and Congressional outrage, but dangerous to the First Amendment. I don't really want foreign writers banned from writing about our elections in this country nor Americans being in trouble for retweeting their stuff. If I liked that method of governing, I might move to China, because there sure is a lot of money being spent there on art right now.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 5:52am
As someone once said, the Constitution is not a suicide pact.
The First Amendment is not sacrosanct - such as with Abbie Hoffman's shouting "theater" in a crowded fire, there are limits, as with vicious slander for non-public figures, hate speech, etc.
We have a constitutional crisis here - massive fraud in the name of free speech. I can't sell you a vacuum cleaner under false pretenses, but I can sell you a presidential candidate using all sorts of misleading disinfo.
Perhaps we got used to foreign influence because the influence didn't seem so different from usual up to this election.
The testimonials from different Russian actresses with amazingly different attitudes towards sexual harassment is 1 illustration - it's an overt opinion, and we can label it accordingly because we see them, and perhaps because we can just figure it out. But what happens when we don't know how to qualify, when the opinion has an attack vector. We haven't been used to language so much weaponized in quite a while. We had Radio Rwanda that was quite an eye-opener - would it have been shut down in the US? What's our next encounter to teach us, how do we smooth out the edges before the next confrontation?
[PS - my original response was more provocative - I'm assuming with this bunch that where there's smoke, there's typically fire, they've been so unscrupulous. Not entirely warranted, but hey, I'm happy for someone to go digging into these connections with enough of these verified trojan groups already. Yes, how do we balance this with Trump asking ISPs for all info on protesters of whatever sort?]
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 7:13am
Don't get me wrong, didn't mean to imply circumstantial evidence is useless; it's very useful in developing a case against someone. But there's also important reasons it's not always admissible legally. It's good stuff for the detectives, as it were...
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/19/2017 - 9:09am