jollyroger's picture

    Hydroxychloroquine, what have you got to lose? Your mind...

    I had a friend, now deceasehd, who used to travel regularly to Africa on buisiness.


    Of course, he had to reckon with the risk of malaria, and he took several courses of Chloroquine prophylactically.  I remember at the time that the drug was associated with pretty impressive side effects, though I didn't investigate in detail.


    As the current kerfuffle unfolded over the use of this drug for Covid19, I was moved to revisit the topic:


    This is the list:



    • Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
    • blurred vision or other vision changes
    • chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
    • cough or hoarseness
    • dark urine
    • decreased urination
    • defective color vision
    • diarrhea
    • difficulty breathing
    • difficulty seeing at night
    • dizziness or fainting
    • fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
    • feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
    • feeling that others can hear your thoughts
    • feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
    • fever with or without chills
    • general feeling of tiredness or weakness
    • headache
    • inability to move the eyes
    • increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
    • joint or muscle pain
    • large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
    • loss of hearing
    • lower back or side pain
    • noisy breathing
    • painful or difficult urination
    • red irritated eyes
    • red skin lesions, often with a purple center
    • severe mood or mental changes
    • sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
    • sticking out of the tongue
    • stomach pain
    • swelling of the feet or lower legs
    • swollen or painful glands
    • trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
    • uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
    • unusual behavior
    • unusual bleeding or bruising
    • unusual facial expressions
    • unusual tiredness or weakness
    • yellow eyes or skin

    Symptoms of overdose

    • Drowsiness
    • dry mouth
    • increased thirst
    • loss of appetite
    • mood changes
    • no pulse or blood pressure
    • numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
    • unconsciousness


    Our friendship eventually fractured because of some pretty paranoid ideation on his part, which at the time I attributed mostly to what I thought was early dementia.


    Note that in the impressive list of side effects, the psychological distress is not even associated with excessive dosage.


    Doctor Trump will see you now...


    No wonder Fauci is moved to object...

    Not Jolly, what the hell are you trying to do? Most all drugs have some side effects some severe for some people. This drug has been used for decades by tens of millions of people and I'm sure some small percentage of them had side effects. Even those who suffer side effects can chose which is worse the disease ofr the side effects.

    Dr Fauci is correct this is'nt a proven tested treatment yet but it is an experimental treatment being tested under emergency conditions.and it has shown positive results. Trump, along with every other sane person, hopes it would be effective in treating Wuhan for anyone who can tolerate it.

    You might seek treatment for your TDS and rejoin the sane people who are not trying to scare people away from this or any other promising treatment.

    Like the church in Senegal(?) where they were killing themselves with it a couple weeks ago?
    Yeah, sure, test it out under controlled conditions - but a President proselytizing about a cureall drug is just a snake oil salesman - and like his steaks and "college" and thieving foundation, we know he's a scam artist.
    Why would you trust a "businessman" who went bankrupt 6 times who then he says he knows about medicine when he has not training? Why the fuck are we even discussing this? If some research lab tests it out and it works, fine. But a congenital liar who comports himself with the intellect of a 6th grader? That's not "Trump Derangement Syndrome" - that's just paying attention to how the motherfucker speaks - out his ass.

    And why give press briefings when he gets *everything* wrong?

    PP. if you keep this up you're going to need Depends before November.

    I doubt you have ever taken the risk of starting a business or you'd know 50% fail in the first three years. The difference between winners and losers is that winners like Trump don't quit when they fail. Trump kept those AC casinos open and the employees working for almost twenty years along with all the other businesses that supplied them.

    Trump has said repeatedly that he didn't know if this treatment would work but he had enough reliable information that gave him hope that it could work. He had to force the FDA to authorize its use as an experimental treatment and it may save many lives.

    If you get severe Wuhan I hope you can get this treatment,. I want you to be around for the final humiliation coming in November.

    Winners don't skim from their charity to put in their pocket or buy a big painting of themselves. Winners don't tell students of their school that he'll be providing personal input and then fail to deliver. Winners don't claim their building has more stories than it has and tell investors that it's occupancy is double what it is. Winners don't keep a separate set if books for the IRS and for investors. I apparently know a fuckload more about business than you, and while 50% of new businesses fail in the first year, it's rare that a businessman bankrupts 6 times, and yet always seems to come out with a profit while his investors take the hit. So we're not just talking normal fraud - we're also talking mob backing and money laundering, including international crime such as Russians. How's that Trump Tower in Baiku doing, sitting there on the wrong side of the highway where no one goes? Oil money doesn't seem to care - they got their goals out of it - even Ivanka showed up to bless the shit sandwich. Why would businessmen pay double market value for one of his homes and sell it at a loss without even moving in? Either to curry favor/ quid pro quo and/or to move it to a different set of books. Trump can't show his own taxes because they're crooked, and the right-wing fucks don't seem to care despite all their God, duty, country posturing.

    PP, you don't need to make up fictions to criticize Trump. He's not a Golden Calf but a flawed sinner like the rest of us. This is one of the reasons he is so popular along with the fact he keeps his promises unlike most politicians.

    The Trump family business will lose about a billion dollars so he could serve as President while grifters like China Joe, Crooked Hillary and even Obama got rich using their political positions.Do you really believe that Trump had friends in Obama's IRS who would cover up anything he might have done wrong?

    FYI, Trump lost almost  $900,000,000, his airline and his yacht in A.C 

    He showed his taxes? He refrains from doing business? He keeps his promises like I'm a Vegas strip drag queen. Speaking of making up, your Fox friends have been telling some looloos...(sp?)

    Trump screwing the little guy - keeps his promises my ass.

    You know very well that most reporters in the media were downplaying the possible severity of the Wuhan. They were all wrong because the world was being lied to by the Chinese and the WHO They can all be forgiven but not the Chinese and the WHO Neither can the people who called Trump a racist for 'overacting' with the travel ban on china and soon after Europe. Then there are the politicians and health officials who continued to downplay the threat weeks after Trump shut the borders, you know who they are and we have video of them also. 

    People make mistakes we are only human especially when misinformed but people who downplayed the threat after being informed have to take responsibility for their mistakes that may have caused unnecessary suffering and death.

    That is not what happened. It is simply not true. Most reporters in the media were not downplaying the possible severity of the virus.

    Your Leader spent hours yelling at that media and dismissing them as hysterical fools.

    You must be high.

    You know I was refering to political campaign promises not petty business disputes and there was no criminal law violations alleged. They may lose or they may win, let me know the outcome. FYI a Ponzi Scheme is a crime with criminal penalties not civil cash penalties.

    He promised to "Make America Great Again". Kissing the North Korean leaders ass in a bromance as he's developing nuclear missiles doesn't do that. Kissing Putin's ass as he bombs civilians and let's ISIS out of our trap doesn't do that. Kissing MBS' ass after hacks up a US-based journalist with a bonesaw doesn't do that. Withholding Congressionally mandated defense aid from an ally while he pressures their leader for dirt on a political opponent's son doesn't do that.

    What the fuck is wrong with you? Youre smart enough to realize all this yourself. You could at least hedge your bets, but you don't.

    Give him a break, maybe he's getting paid?


    Sinclair Lewis, "It is difficult, etc."



    Sure, has to feed his family. At least I'll make him feel like he almost earned it.

    Well, he earned his piasters today. Instead of talking about the on going disaster and the need to overcome the deficiencies of his employer, the conversation has been moved to another place.

    He wasn't given this assignment to defend a point of view.

    You need a big tube of Prep-H if you are still butt-hurt by Trump's deft handling of the Mad Hermit King and his brilliant maneuvers to bring the world back from the brink of war. Walk softly but carry a big stick and he only had to raise his stick a couple of times to show Kim appeasement was no longer the US policy. 

    A few kind words and a couple of smiling handshake photo ops cost us nothing but gave Kim the opportunity to save face while backing away from the abyss.

    Those bad Saudi boys may have thought they were helping MBS but more likely were trying to destroy him by whacking that US based MB 'journalist'. Either way they now sit in prison waiting for their heads to roll down the streets of a Saudi city.

    WTF? Why the scare quotes around journalist? Guess snorting koolaid ain't good enough -you're mainlining. Nice tracks.

    Jamal Khashoggi didn't deserve to be murdered but he does deserve to be remembered for what he was and what he believed in.  Your link describes him as a Saudi progressive and whatever that is it is not a Western secular/Marxist/progressive.

    The Muslim Brotherhood is an Islamist movement anti-communist and anti-secular with the goal of replacing ME governments with more not less Theocratic rule. The MB has used less violence to gain power than other Islamists movements but as seen with Hamas terror and violence are used freely when they gain power.

    Jamal Khashoggi didn't deserve to be murdered


    Very Christian of you...


    Trying to whittle Khashoggi down to (Mother, forgive that one...) just another Muslim Brotherhood goon is completely farcical.

     whittle Khashoggi down


    You may or may not receive forgiveness for that (prolly yes, mothers are forgiving.)


    I, per contra, am without doubt going to Hell for chuckling, thanks for nuttin'...


    .employees working... along with all the other businesses that supplied them.


    Working, sometimes.


    Paid in full, never.


     After a couple of months, I got a letter telling me that the casino was short on funds. They would pay 70 percent of what they owed me. There was no negotiating. I didn't know what to do — I couldn't afford to sue the Trump corporation, and I needed money to pay my piano suppliers. So I took the $70,000.


     A USA Today analysis published Thursday uncovered 60 lawsuits by ordinary Americans who say Trump and his businesses failed to pay them for their work.

    The list includes plumbers and painters, waiters and bartenders, real estate brokers and even law firms who helped him defend such suits.

    The documents reviewed by the newspaper include:

    • More than 200 liens since the 1980s that were filed by contractors and workers who said they were stiffed.
    • Records released by casino regulators in 1990 that show 253 subcontractors on a single project were not paid in full or on time.
    • Twenty-four Fair Labor Act violations by the Trump Plaza casino and Trump Mortgage for failure to pay minimum wage or overtime. The cases were resolved with an agreement to pay back wages.


    So much winning, we're tired of it...


    As a bonus, for your forensic education, note that actual data supported by specific cites is adduced;  a practice you could profitably (see what I did there?) emulate.


    To make it appropriately simple for your simple mind, a dynamic comparison.


    South Korea and USA--each had it's first diagnosed case on the SAME FUCKIN' DAY


    Today, thanks to energetic testing (nothing arcane, nothing occult, just competence) the damage to South Korea's economy as measured by the rise in unemployment between Jan and now:


    From 3.7% to 4.9%.  A hit, but not over a cliff.  Call it a 30% increase.


    We, on the other hand? 


    3.5% to our current 12%+ (measurement curtailed because the websites have universally crashed preventing claims from being filed.)  That would be about 350-400%. increase.


    Are we winning yet?

    The failures of the this Administration go well beyond the character and operational deficiencies of the POTUS. His ability to make it all about him is what gives the thing life. In that way, it is more of a cancer than a virus.

    The MAGA troll army replicates each shift of policy and remembrance of the past too closely to be just about covering for their Leader's lack of responsibility. The complete integration of message demonstrates the need to conceal their responsibility. This not only includes the responsibility for him having the job but the ongoing disconnection between what happens in the TV show and what happens in the world. If this is a ventriloquist show, Trump is the dummy.

    This assertion would seem to be contradicted by the extent that loyalty to the boss has shaped the politics of all three branches of our government. But most of that effort has been expended for the sake of limiting information and diminishing the capacity for legally established institutions to do their work. This result is the responsibility of those who make it possible.

    You are the problem.


    Trump game show/POTUS con man blather, as reality interferes with his lies and happy talk:

    3/7 - Mar-a-Lago , Trump plays golf.- Trump: "No, I'm not concerned at all. No. I'm not. No, we've done a great job."

    3/8 - Trump plays golf

    3/9 - Trump tweets: "The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the coronavirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General -'The risk is low to the average American.' "

    3/10: Trump says: “Just stay calm. It will go away.”

    3/11: Trump says, “I think we’re going to get through it very well.”

    3/11 - NBA suspends season

    3/12 - Trump: "Let's put it this way, I'm not concerned."

    3/13 - Trump pretends to do something, issues Proclamation

    3/16: Asked about his repeated comments saying the situation was “under control,” he says: “If you’re talking about the virus, no, that’s not under control for any place in the world. … I was talking about what we’re doing is under control, but I’m not talking about the virus.”

    3/16 - President Trump told reporters Monday that he would rate his administration’s response to the coronavirus a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10.  “I’d rate it a 10,” Trump said at a White House press briefing Monday.

    3/19-20 - Trump: (on the drugs) "very, very encouraging early results", "It may work, it may not work. I feel good about it. That's all it is. Just a feeling."

    3/21 - Trump tweets: "HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine,"

    3/25 - Trump supporter in Arizona dies taking chloroquine used for aquariums, wife says they learned of chloroquine's connection to coronavirus during a President Donald Trump news conference, which "was on a lot actually." They took it because they "were afraid of getting sick," she said.


    Hey, Nonny, wanna know what's deranged?


    Not being able to see the fat flabby ass of the naked emperor...


    ETA Hey nonny ho'...(spelling taken advisedly...)



    Hey Nonny, your fake leader's fake drug that he's been pushing everywhere simply doesn't work. Fake hope is good? Since when? However Remdesivir does seem to have promising effects - after going through real trials, not witch doctors and snake oil salesmen and the King of Scam himself, Trump. Don't you feel ashamed? And if not, why not? If Obama pimped something he knew dick all about, you'd be all over him, but here you're cheering a charlatan, a hoaxter, and pretending it's rational.

    In Sweden, they tried the drug and have been dissuaded by side effects (not even including the psychotic breaks...)  


    hospitals in the Västra Götaland region are no longer offering the antimalarial medication, with side effects reported to include cramps and the loss of peripheral vision.

    One of the patients affected was Carl Sydenhag, a 40-year-old Stockholm resident. According to Expressen, Sydenhag was prescribed two tablets of chloroquine to take daily after he was diagnosed with COVID-19 on March 23.

    But instead of making him feel better, the medication produced unpleasant side effects. As well as cramps and vision loss, Sydenhag experienced a headache that felt like stepping into "a high v​ plant," he told the paper.

    A hospital in Nice, France stopped its trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin due to potentially lethal abnormal heart rhythms


    Hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc although not technically approved by the FDA for COVID-19, the agency, however, is encouraging trials and has provided limited emergency authorization under strict controlled conditions, and the watchful eye of an attending physcian and advises against taking any form of chloroquine unless obtained from a legitimate source.

    This doctor has been prescribing it with limited emergency authorization.

    Dr. Anthony Cardillo. KABC News Los Angeles April 6, 2020

    "Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free. So clinically I am seeing a resolution. It should be reserved for people who are really sick, in the hospital or at home very sick, who need that medication."

    His background resume is bullet proof.

    Dr. Cardillo is the President and Medical Director of Mend Health, Inc. and is also the founder of Premier Health Partners which manages several Emergency Departments in the greater Los Angeles region.

    Dr. Cardillo is also a founder and lead executive for Glendale Adventist Emergency Physicians, Inc. at the Glendale Adventist Medical Center Emergency Department in Glendale, California where he works as a full time physician.

    Dr Cardillo also holds a teaching faculty position at USC as an instructor in clinical medicine.


    2001 – 2006
    David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
    Double Board Residency Program
    Emergency Medicine & Internal Medicine

    1997 – 2001
    Keck School of Medicine
    of the University of Southern California
    Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)
    Dean's Scholar
    University of California, Los Angeles
    and Molecular Biology

    Fordham University
    Graduate Program
    Early Childhood Development

    Fordham University
    Bachelor’s Degree
    Major - Psychology,
    Minor - English Literature



    Here  is the entire ABC 7 News Report:


    Note: I will shorten this report if requested to do so.

    LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A Los Angeles doctor said he is seeing significant success in prescribing the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc to treat patients with severe symptoms of COVID-19.

    Hydroxychloroquine has been touted as a possible treatment for COVID-19 by President Trump among others, but it remains controversial as some experts believe it is unproven and may not be effective.

    The drug has long been used for treatment of malaria and conditions such as lupus and arthritis but is not technically approved by the FDA for COVID-19. The agency, however, is encouraging trials and has provided limited emergency authorization for its use to treat COVID-19 patients.

    Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

    "Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."

    Cardillo is the CEO of Mend Urgent Care, which has locations in Sherman Oaks, Van Nuys and Burbank.

    He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

    He added that the drug should not be prescribed for those who are presenting only mild symptoms, as there are concerns about shortages for patients with other conditions who need to take the drug on a regular basis.

    "We have to be cautious and mindful that we don't prescribe it for patients who have COVID who are well," Cardillo said. "It should be reserved for people who are really sick, in the hospital or at home very sick, who need that medication. Otherwise we're going to blow through our supply for patients that take it regularly for other disease processes."

    Full video interview at the link: Dr. Anthony Cardillo of Mend Urgent Care in Los Angeles

    Chloroquine, or hydroxychloroquine, has been approved to treat and prevent malaria since 1944. Because the drug is on the market, doctors can use it for off-label purposes.

    President Trump has touted it as a possible cure, but the government's top coronavirus expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, has been much more cautious, saying there is only "anecdotal evidence" demonstrating its effectiveness.

    Experts are also concerned about potential misuse. A man in Arizona died after taking what he thought was a similar substance, chloroquine phosphate, in an apparent attempt to self-medicate. The man did not take the pharmaceutical version of the drug, but a substance used at aquariums to clean fish tanks.





    When I hear that a treatment is 100% effective, I am skeptical 

    He is reporting his own data from his own practice

    If the patients are not hospitalized, are they really critically ill?

    I will wait for peer-reviewed data

    So will I . . .

    He does have... "limited emergency authorization under strict controlled conditions."

    So there will eventually be some form of oversight of his data.

    Thanks for taking the time to comment.




    I feel optimistic.


    Fine until you meet a worthy opponent.

    And anyway...

    Sorry if darker than you imagined...

    I feel a bit dislocated.

    Hang in there, this too will pass.


     Try to find something to do to keep you occupied.

    While Dr. Rog is suggesting the possibility of drug side effects on the patient using prophylactically, Dr. Lee is suggesting a prescription for survival of the patient's victims due to criminology combined with mental pathology:

    oh and this guy basically sums up how Dr. Arta feels, in naming the "the daily dementia show":

    It got very clear to me a short time ago that he's really gotten much worse within the whole presidential bubble and is not really calling many shots at all. That when newscasts have begun to discipline themselves to cut away from his babble they are doing the right thing. Because what he is saying and doing in them doesn't much matter, it's what the Federal government and military et. al. are doing to manipulate him and work around him, that's what matters, that's the reality that's important. And the political shows and sites are still feeding the troll too much by spending lots of time on what the troll said and did today. We've already got enough "Trumpology" experts like Maggie Haberman to cover what he's been up to, you can check her latest and then let's all STOP endlessly getting outraged by what the troll did today.

    One reason among many: when November rolls around, the troll is going to get the benefit (or not if they did the wrong thing) of the what the Federal government did during this period. More attention to be paid to what is really being done, less to the dementia show and daily outrage over fantasy babble.

    People like us on this website, we got time to dig into news in detail. Low info. voters are busy right now home schooling their kids, applying for unemployment, waiting in line to get into the grocery store, making their own masks, figuring out how to rob Peter credit card to pay Paul credit card, etc. I doubt they will look any more kindly on those feeding the troll than the troll himself. I suspect Dem congressional candidates are finding this out.

    Keep in mind that many journalistic organizations are near bankrupt closure themselves. It must be tough not to fall for our clicks and channel choices showing preference for "Trump outrage stories." As one of the past feeders of the whole machine, I'm going to try to move away from feeding the mentally ill troll and move to coverage of his daily outrageousness activity to what is actually happening in the country and the world and with the people actually executing the functions of the executive branch of the U.S. government under his name. I think anyone who doesn't want to see Trump elected in Nov. needs to start limiting attention to him to ridicule only. And watch what the rest of them are actually doing under his name.


    Yes, he is a corpse on a horse.

    Did not


              Did too


    Did not


             Did too...


    ,openfecessacesmearing>I'm rubber, you're glue.<closefecesfacesmearing>..

    People who make or distribute life saving and suffering reducing medicines are 'dealers' according to these wonderful CFE. One of those dealers donated 400,000 doses of this med to NOLA and Trump has ordered millions of doses of this med directly from India bypassing the dealers.

    These Citizens For Ethics act like a Soros front group with no concept of the meaning of the word ethics.

    You. Fucking. Idiot.

    People with medical degrees are doctors. Those who practice medicine without a degree and certification are lawbreakers.

    Ignorant Nigerians who believe Trump were overdosing on this malaria medicine a few weeks ago - yes, it has side effects and needs a physician, not a church.

    Penicillin cures the clap. It doesn't cure Multiple Sclerosis.

    Do you remember Laetrile and all the claims in the 70s how it could cure cancer? They're still going at it, and it's still not true.

    Quit getting your news and opinion from vicious narcissists and bonobo monkeys. If there is anything useful in Hydroxichloriquine, they will figure it out using expedited drug studies that are going on now, for this, for Gilead's potential vaccine, for other promising targets - not Trump's intuition or the World Weekly Gazette.

    Now, if Trump would do his actual fucking job and get masks, Ventilators, and testing kits where they need to be and stop with the snake oil cheerleading business, maybe we would not have corona deaths and infections going through the roof.

    And yes, taking millions of doses of malaria medicine from a country that suffers malaria to send to unproven cures elsewhere would be malpractice EXCEPT HE'S NOT A FUCKING DOCTOR, he's a charlatan and a criminal.

    Your allergic reactions to the truth are becoming more severe. You might seek a Dr's advice on treatments as anyone seeking to use the malaria drug must do.

    FYI, India is one of the largest medicine 'dealers' in the world and Modi has stated that India's and other countrie's normal needs for this medicine will be met before the US order is shipped.

    The point made by PeraclesPlease was not a rebuttal to your claims as to the efficacy of the drug but a caution toward making claims of that kind outside of the process that has been well established to do just that.

    Your insistence upon conflating the two issues is without value.

    People like Modi lie all the time, and I already said the drug is *prescribed* to treat malaria, but it still doesn't fucking excuse Trump pretending he's a doctor. It's completely irresponsible. You're like a 13-year-old in puppy love over some guy whose greatest pleasures are golf, fucking over investors, and fucking underage girls, who has trouble with basic spelling and repeats "excellent" 5x in a sentence, but sure, his cultish advice says bloodletting with leeches will cure an infectious lung disease, but only if you bury a fresh placenta under a tree at moonrise, and you're game, ready to follow, ignore any precautions a, er, doctor might propose...

    Dr. Don has written the scripts that have made America great again for everyone except the snowflakes who loathe the idea of a great America. The use of the malaria  drug he promotes has produced posittive results with no major side effects or deaths reported so that script may be a win  for the country. 

    Modi needs to be certain that India can ramp up production of the malaria drug to India's malaria and Wuhan COVID needs and the world demand before shipping the US order he acknowledged by responding to the request. 

    Your joining the mob of petty protesters undermining the hope of others that this treatment could save lives just because Trump promoted it will force me to refer to you as Pestilence Please from now on. 

    But you have still not addressed how any of your story applies to the simple problem of determining what is effective or not.

    I suspected there was something more than Trump's spelling or his promoting the Wuhan treatment that was causing PP's fact allergy eruptions. 

    He must have seen the Friday news dump that revealed the declassified IG report footnotes and realized they destroyed the predicate for spying on the Trump team three years ago. These facts are enough to make any snowflake lose some of their marbles and the coup plotters to hire more and better lawyers. This may be why Schiff disappeared the IG's testimony from the impeachment 

    Sources in DC are reporting that a Grand Jury is already taking testimony from suspects/witnesses as the wheels of justice grind slowly but finely.

    Deripaska, Anon dude - you're not reading my posts

    Hey Anon - suspect this

    William Barr Absolved Trump of Obstruction without Having the Faintest Clue What He Obstructed

    May 1, 2019/135 Comments/in , /by

    Bill Barr just finished testifying to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

    It was remarkable.

    Among the opinions the Attorney General espoused are that:

    • You only need to call the FBI when being offered campaign assistance by a foreign intelligence service, not a foreigner
    • It’s okay to lie about the many dangles hostile foreign countries make to a political campaign, including if you accepted those dangles
    • Because Trump was being falsely accused (it’s not clear of what, because the report doesn’t address the most aggressive accusation, and many other accusations against Trump and his campaign are born out by the Mueller Report), it’s okay that he sought to undermine it through illegal means
    • It’s okay for the President to order the White House Counsel to lie, even about an ongoing investigation
    • It’s okay to fire the FBI Director for refusing to confirm or deny an ongoing investigation, which is DOJ policy not to do
    • It’s okay for the Attorney General to call lawfully predicated DOJ investigative techniques “spying” because Fox News does
    • Public statements — including threatening someone’s family — cannot be subornation of perjury
    • You can exhaust investigative options in a case having only obtained contemptuous responses covering just a third of the investigation from the key subject of it

    The Attorney General also got himself in significant trouble with his answers to a question from Charlie Crist about whether he knew why Mueller’s team was concerned about press reports. His first answer was that he didn’t know about the team’s concerns because he only spoke with Mueller. But he later described, in the phone call he had with Mueller, that Mueller discussed his team’s concerns. Worse still, when called on the fact that the letter — as opposed to Barr’s potentially suspect representation of the call — didn’t mention the press response, he suggested Mueller’s letter was “snitty” and so probably written by a staffer, meaning he assumed that the letter itself was actually from a staffer.

    But that’s not the most amazing thing.

    The most amazing thing is that, when Cory Booker asked Barr if he thought it was right to share polling data with Russians — noting that had Trump done so with a Super PAC, rather than a hostile foreign country, it would be illegal — Barr appeared to have no clue that Paul Manafort had done so. He even asked whom Manafort shared the data with, apparently not knowing he shared it with a guy that Rick Gates said he believes is a Russian spy.

    That’s remarkable, because he basically agreed with Ben Sasse that Deripaska — with whom Manafort was sharing this campaign data — was a “bottom-feeding scum-sucker.”

    So the Attorney General absolved the President of obstruction without having the faintest clue what actions the investigation of which Trump successfully obstructed by floating a pardon to Manafort.

    There may be an explanation for this fairly shocking admission on Barr’s part. He also admitted that he and Rod Rosenstein started making the decision on obstruction before they read the report. Indeed, several times during the hearing, it seemed he still has not read the report, as he was unfamiliar with allegations in it.

    In short, the Attorney General said it was okay for Trump to obstruct this investigation because (he claims) Trump was falsely accused, without being aware that the report showed that several of the key allegations against Trump — including that his campaign manager coordinated with Russians, including one Barr agrees is a bottom-feeding scum-sucker” with ties to Russian intelligence — were actually true.

    Marcy Wheeler BJ. is Roswell Rachel's Mad Little Sister amd an apologist for the Police State. I watched her spin her bogus narratives week after week and month after month while proclaiming 'We got him this time' but failed every time to she spiraled down the rabbit hole. 

    She then began prefacing her rants with the claim she was an informant for the FBI and knew stuff others didn't. Bill Barr, the Cheshire Cat in this tale, quickly schooled the third rate lawyers like Marcy that the rule of law was once again in force and that swamp rats were on the mene at the DOJ.

    Since then losers like Marcy have been reduced to sandbagging, regurgitating old failed memes and whimpering in the dark.

    If you want to debunk a Wheeler account, have a go at this:

    What a “Reopening the Economy Story” Would Look Like

    Feel free to register and write your own thread if you want to debate the other topic.

    Barr's been Trump's Mr. Wolf/fixup boy, since the large toilet seat salesman got fired. Trump sure knows how to pick ém.

    Marcy never proclaimed "we got him this time", and mostly she warned the left not to overreach
    (that's "extend too far", not your buddies' "reach around"). She kept warning that the Steele Report
    was more likely to be disinfo, yet here you go again, ignoring anything I actually said.
    Have you swizzed your malaria medicine today? Feel all queazy?

    Harvey Keitel will never play Barr in the movie...I'm thinking more like John Cazale...

    Anyone with half a wit knew the piss dossier was a steaming pile off garbage but many wanted and needed to believe it was real. This didn't stop Marcy from sailing her ship of fools from port to port trying to connect the collusion dots that never existed.

    Bill Barr returned to government to serve the American people and defend the office of the President, I doubt he even likes Trump but he loves the law.

    John Durham is another Servant of the American People and he has Johnny B the puppetmaster of the coup pinned down under his microscope and as the light grows brighter he will sweat and squirm.

    I hope you don't follow the example of those libtards who drank the Kool Aid/fish bowl cleaner and try to become a martyr for the Resistance.

    Feel free to register and present your arguments in your own thread.
    If half of what you say is true, then throwing it out in the middle of a pandemic where thousands of people are dying is the wrong place to discuss it.

    it is STILL so curious why he comes here just to needle others from time to time. Because of the erratic anonymous participation, I suspect it's something that actually could be considered flattering. He spends most of his time either trolling lowest common denominator liberal "snowflakes" into angina, or, he spends much of his time sharing agitprop with a lowest common denominator like-minded group. Either way, when that gets boring, same old same old, he comes here for some up the game action....

    The formulaic nature of the stuff and the way it appears especially when Trump is being tasked with taking responsibility for his actions suggests that the narrator may be more detached from the product than is being presented. There is no way to tell if the author is feeling the contempt being delivered. I don't care.

    One element to note is that most sites require registration to varying degrees. This one does not. Several years ago, I put in some time visiting a lot of right wing sites to see what was happening there. Most of those sites require you to register to comment. Most of them are heavily moderated to erase off message comments. I tried to see if I could register and play along with the others a bit to see the dynamics. I was quickly identified and shut down. That's when I realized that there was more support going on than meets the eye.

    I take more of a removed view of all that now. The problem of authentic actors dealing with those who are not is at least as old as prostitution. That this agent, who or whatever they are, speaks to us as people she is familiar with while not struggling for respect on that level themselves, is all the aggression one needs to know.

    Spinoza noticed that when people are sad and in pain, they become weaker and less intelligent. When someone shows up to your party only for the purpose of making you sad, they are fucking with you.

    Sorry, I kind of got all Brooklyn there at the end.

    "By the sixth day of treatment, 11 patients had died, "  Out of a cohort of 40..





    Hey, Ninny, here is an opportunity to stand  up for your beliefs...volunteers are being recruited ... 

    I used to think you were a bright fellow even if we disagreed, not so much anymore.

    All those numbers tell us is that 29 people were still alive after 6 days. Clinical trials will give us an idea if any or how many of those  that survived did so because of the treatment. If it's one or more the experimental treatment was a success. 

    So far Trump hasn't been in a great hurry to ship anything, just Tweet and claim he's doing something, while making money in the background, which is why you sad fuckers got stuck with few masks and only 5000 tests first month, while over here in the civilized world we were taking action to prevent further spread.

    Great that the science-disbelieving flat-earthers are ruling America during a pandemic - just gather in churches and pray to God. Faith, right? Not facts, not deeds - faith.

    By their fruits, you shall know them.

    that certainly sounds like how Trump operates, if it's a faux narrative, it still totally fits the general modus operandi

    I think people err when they go for Trump caring so much about accumulating actual dollars. What he goes for is adoration of other con men, he listens to other con men and takes them seriously, he wants to be in the club.

    Well, greed is a difficult sin to separate from a person acting in their environment.
    I agree that the motivation driving Trump is more along the lines of Veblen than Dickens.
    But being smart about that has not been helping me lately.

    This picture obviously shows PP wearing a "Fauci" mask, because his thought bbble  can only mirror the opening words from a comment above (directed at Ninny Nonny) viz,


    "You fucking idiot..."


    While we're doing "thought bubbles", here's a contest for you.



    I'll start it off "Somebody get me outta here!" (parenthetically, as Ninny has referenced "Depends", this is a guy feeling wetness spreading...)

    A song, a nonce, strike up, pipers!

    I see your Shakespeare,, and raise you Mel Brooks


    back to real topic:

    i confess, as a guy who respected and loved my father, that I am unable successfully to deconstruct the usage employed here as an insult.


    I can only infer that Trump (in a rare show of insight) despised his.

    The "Deface the Nation" thing seems to be too clever for Trump. Probably a staff writer.

    A longstanding Limbaugh trope...


    As I understand it, the case was that his father did not like him? went both ways, I guess...The one who died was the favorite Fred Jr.(cf Joe Kennedy Jr.,  it's always like that with wannbe dynastics)


    It almost makes you superstitious, like, you shouldn't do the "Jr." thing...


    ETA What father does not, at the birth of his son, entertain the prospect of someday buying two million dollars worth of chips at his failing casino, and proceeding straight to the Men's Room ito flush them and complete the illegal "loan".


    The Trump family, it must be oonceded, specialized in more varied and creative ways to launder money transfers than most business schools ever contemplate.

    If you are going for a repetition of yourself as a parent, try to lean on the qualities that have not already been shown to be worthless and harmful to yourself and other people.

    I favor cutting out the middlewoman, and opting for the clone...but that's just me.

    The clone will present the same menu.

    Correlation does not establish causation. There does seem to be a link between super spreaders and the Trump messaging machine. Consider South Dakota Gov. Kristi L. Noem

    “A shelter-in-place order is needed now. It is needed today,” said Sioux Falls Mayor Paul TenHaken, whose city is at the center of South Dakota’s outbreak and who has had to improvise with voluntary recommendations in the absence of statewide action.

    But the governor continued to resist. Instead, she used a media briefing Monday to announce trials of a drug that President Trump has repeatedly touted as a potential breakthrough in the fight against the coronavirus, despite a lack of scientific evidence.

    “It’s an exciting day,” she boasted, repeatedly citing her conversations with presidential son-in-law Jared Kushner.

    Moat, you're slavishly parroting  A Story while ignoring the details o f The Story. 

    You omit the little fact that these meatpacking workers are 'essential' workers who would be working with or without a lockdown. in fact you don't even mention them.

    This is an amazing comment for you. For the first time posting here you made a good argument without insulting anyone.

    Pathogen, your observation is nonsense because they don't live in a lockdown. What would happen in a parallel universe where they were in one is something we will never know.

    Mayor TenHaken has withdrawn his request for a lockdown because he accepts the model showing his city has the medical capacity to handle their peak. I presume that capacity includes the death toll, he doesn't say. But there is bit of a glitch in the brain trust:

    Dr. Jeremy Cauwels with Sanford Health told councilors that from the beginning of the pandemic, the goal of implementing social distancing measures was to slow the spread of the coronavirus in the city so not to overwhelm the healthcare systems. Social distancing, he said, does not lessen the number of people who get sick, just at the rate at which they are infected.

    That is a remarkably stupid thing to say. The reason to slow the rate is not only about overcrowding the hospitals and morgues but to develop a way to control the rate of infection by testing the population.

    For instance, (only one doubtless among many) had they been working during a lockdown they might have had appropriate protective gear...




    Workers at Chinese-owned Smithfield Foods plant in South Dakota say they were not given 'any protective gear' to fight off the virus after 634 employees tested positive

    Jolly, thanks for filling in The Story  with info that doesn't infer that the outbreak was the result of the Governors decision to not lock down SD.

    The CDC and the state are already busy working on the failures to protect these workers that these managers are responsible for. They alsohave to contact trace about 3000 people who may have been exposed and reopen the plant. 

    Mary, nobody has asserted that the workers got infected because that State was not locked down. The calls to lock it down became more urgent when they did get infected.

    We are in a pandemic. When an outbreak happens somewhere, decisions are made about how to proceed. No State has started a lock down until it became clear that the virus was too big for them to slow down by other means.

    Your attempt to make the response about anything else is merely political messaging.

    I've been interacting with moat online for over a decade. Moat never slavishly parrots. Moat is perhaps one of the most thoughtful commenters on the internets. You know the advice about "think before you hit enter"? Moat is an expert at doing that.

    *moat blushes*
    I also shower regularly but there is no way to prove that here.

    You're so clean I can see right through you.

    Then prove it. You dodge and weave but have yet to challenge statements I make. You always divert to other things.

    Hey Nonny! A new breeding ground - juvenile detention. Thought they were safe, but heck, 25 infected, even though far from 60+, so as the yarn goes, frayed knot.

    A lot of illnesses and deaths for a "hoax". Does that bother you? Or the widespread death if Veterans? I'm so old I remember when the military was part of the GOP's base, and now it seems they're its target. How do you feel about that?

    Mini-Trump Bolsonaro, took advice and hydroxychloroquine for trials gift of Dr. Drumpf, looks like he's winning too:

    Coronavirus update, Americas:

    - USA: 31,122 new cases
    - Brazil: 3,538 new cases
    - Canada: 1,821 new cases
    - Peru: 998 new cases
    - Mexico: 578 new cases
    - Chile: 445 new cases
    - Dom Rep: 371 new cases
    - Ecuador: 225 new cases
    - Colombia: 206 new cases
    - Argentina: 89 new cases

    — Norbert Elekes (@NorbertElekes) April 18, 2020


    I am in one of those really bad zip codes, yours is one notch down,


    That study implicates the subway, needless to say.  I am pleased to be roughly thirty days out from my last subway ride, which, co-inidentally, was the first day I saw anyone wear a mask on the subway.


    I still see unmasked folks on Kingsbridge Rd. walking side by side chatting (oddly, only men...)


    ETA I am given to understand that resource allocation presents no barrier to repetitive testing of anyone entering the same room as our Orange Tormentor on a dailh (hourly?) basis...

    Frank Luntz studies populism. Frank digs deep into populism. Frank listens to what voters think without judgment and with respect for all opinions. Frank knows populism inside and out (and, yes, he sells the data later, but that's another thing.) And Frank just tweeted this toon:

    Edit to add, tweeted just before the above:


    “Really Want to Flood NY and NJ”: Internal Documents Reveal Team Trump’s Chloroquine Master Plan

    You should go sue Dana Milbank for plagiarism!

    Trump is exhibiting all the symptoms of a hydroxychloroquine overdose, April 24 @ WaPo

    Gotta do something with those millions of doses that no one will buy anymore...


    ETA "Whattya got t'lose?"

    "Don't get high on your own supply" takes on a new urgency...

    Just for fun, ran across from Daniel Dale's live running account of the little faux rally tonight:

    Trump claims some opponents would "rather see people not get well" than for him to get credit over hydroxychloroquine. (Many opponents have said there's no conclusive proof it is effective for this purpose; some studies have also not found proof; FDA has issued safety warning.)

    — Daniel Dale (@ddale8) May 3, 2020

    Trump, asked about hydroxychloroquine, says he's had three calls in the last three or four days from people who credit it with saving their lives. (Again, these anecdotes are not data; people don't always know why they've gotten better; we need real trials.)

    — Daniel Dale (@ddale8) May 3, 2020

    Now confirmed, gettin'  high off his own supply....

    and also thought of you when I saw some people opining on what the effects might be if you combined it with regular intake of adderall along with evidence of some coronary artery disease and body mass index issues. But since you weren't around, I didn't save the link.

    I see just now that Michelle Goldberg picked up on your meme yesterday:


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