Which tribes have what privileges?

    To start

    and to be continued as I come across more

    Comments

    Pew study

    White high school dropout earns more than Black college graduate 

    https://rollingout.com/2017/08/13/average-white-high-school-dropout-earns-more-than-black-college-grad/


    That's a really dumb misleading article that explains less than nothing, presenting family wealth (mean? median?) instead of income. Would be better to show the average black salary per profession, say. But that would try to address the problem, not stir up confusion and guilt and blame.

    As just 1 issue, what % if black degree holders are solo mothers (still double that of white degree-holding solo mothers?), greatly affecting work options and time?

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/04/25/the-changing-profile-of-unmar...

    Obviously a lot of other pertinent aspects if someone wanted to tackle the issue of wage and earning disparity intelligently, but obviously Rolling Stone didn't want to - they used to be better than this. Even Matt Taibbi's Rolling Stone pieces tended to be kickass, as much issue as I have with him elsewhere.


    Posting it is also a clear example of whatabout-ism.

    Switching the topic, apples and oranges as well.The chart I posted just shows current privilege white & black females have in college acceptance and attendance. Doesn't even get into black males.

    More importantly doesn't get into whether that current privilege translates into earning more money for black females.I.E., if all of those women were getting degrees in art history, it's a sure thing the vast majority will be making less than a plumber for the rest of their lives laugh Not only that, it's complicated by the fact that "white privilege" is such a broad and vague accusation that it can be take all kinds of ways, such as trust fund kids living off the wealth of former generations, in which case they would have no earned income and not show up in government earned income stats.

    I'm looking for examples of baby steps of privilege changing. I think that's definitely happening in many ways.

    One can laud it or cry about it or not care, I'm not interest in getting into that, only noting it.


    First locate & map it, then measure and analyze and draw conclusions.


    Actually, if one is going to spin income levels, here's the more common political spin on income (for decades,) I just ran across it checking out my current U.S. Rep.'s twitter feed. Now I want to note that he represents all of Harlem as well as my Bronx areas, so he feels this spin will be acceptable to his constituents there. He is of Dominican immigrant heritage and first ran for Chas. Rangel's old district before re-districting:

    The day when women’s pay catches up to that of the white men last year:
    ➡️All women - March 5
    ➡️Black women - Aug 13
    ➡️Native American women – October 1st
    ➡️Latinas - TODAY

    We all deserve #EqualPayForEqualWork. #LatinaEqualPayDay

    — Adriano Espaillat (@RepEspaillat) October 29, 2020

     

    He's particpating in political spin here for political benefit, that's how I look at it. It's not real true nuanced analysis of why things are the way they are. Good b.s. for activists, but not for social scientists.


    There are many social scientists who argue structural racism is a major factor in income inequality.

    For example, this article suggests they willful ignorance is a reason that some dismiss income inequality 

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1745691619863049

    Edit to add: 

    If we look at lifetime earnings, controlled for job level, high level black women lose about $160K over their lifetimes.

    As a group, black women lose about $1 M over a lifetime.

    https://www.payscale.com/compensation-today/2020/08/black-women-equal-pay-2020

     

     


    1) this discussion continues to mix wealth with income, 2 quite different phenomena

    2) men tend to work more ridiculous hours on the job, for better or worse. Women mix more homelike and children/parent obligations. If you look at the 10,000 hour rule, men will hit it more often than women. These are simplifications, but they're largely true.

    3) almost any job i could go for now is based in a large part on my Rolodex - who i know, who i can blow. If you network, you make contacts. That's one of the big issues in pay differential - how quickly can you get some arbitrary task estimated/planned/delivered. Money/success talks, bullshit walks. There is no training for this - you learned in your previous/current job or you didn't. The people who obsess on pay differential likely never worked morning til the next dawn. I have, many times. Few others around me would. And my pay when I was ballsiest rose quickest, even tho I can point to others who weren't as dedicated, but did both better ass-kissing and personal brand cultivation. If you're in sales, you're not succeeding on your education - you're getting ahead thru being the biggest cunt or the biggest shmoozer & persuader out there, including an insatiable desire to work most of the time. I mean, let's grade all animals on fairness in calories eaten and survivability, and place hyenas and leopards next to cattle and fish.

    4) But even there, if I'm a fish living next to a dam, I'm gonna be fat and happy with all the chewed up free food coming my way. Steve Martin noted his choice - to succeed in comedy, he had to move to where comedy was big. Bloomington, Indiana likely wouldn't cut it. So where's the market analysis, which markets can black degree holders dredge with greatest success, and which are relative deadends?


    amen for sure about this reason people make more money, including salaries: better ass-kissing and personal brand cultivation. Take it from the dutiful parochial school girl who did all their work while they were ass kissing. You either got the ability and desire to do that, or you don't; I didn't. I liked my work to stand for itself, that is rarely appreciated until long after it's done.


    oh and you know I agree 100% with #4. Tribal "segregation" gets you: nowhere. I knows lots of whypipple in greater Milwaukee just sitting there for generations waiting for those good paying jobs to come back. But they're with their own kind, nothing disturbing their values except not making any money and not doing anything to stretch their limits of tolerance for anyone different.


    Such BS

    TIAA underpaid Black workers

    The Teachers Insurance & Annuity Association of America unlawfully underpaid women and African-Americans who work at one of the financial services company’s North Carolina locations, the Labor Department alleges in an administrative complaint obtained Sept. 13 by Bloomberg Law

    https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/tiaa-accused-of-underpaying-female-black-workers-in-labor-suit

    Cisco underpaid

    Bay Area technology giant Cisco must pay $2 million in lost wages and interest to certain San Jose employees, plus $2.75 million in extra pay over the next five years to certain employees nationwide in a settlement with the U.S. Department of Labor, which accused it of paying women, black and Latino workers less than male and white employees in similar jobs.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/cisco-to-pay-nearly-5-million-over-alleged-underpayment-of-women-black-latino-employees/

    Oracle underpaid 

    Oracle  has allegedly withheld $400 million in wages from racially underrepresented workers (black, Latinx and Asian) as well as women, the U.S. Department of Labor’s Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs said in a filing today. The OFCCP is the office within the DOL that enforces equal pay and ensures government contractors comply with anti-discrimination regulation.

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/22/oracle-discrimination-400-million/

    There are many examples. This is not about lazy black workers

    Jared Kushner

    For anyone who’s not entirely up to speed on first son-in-law Jared Kushner’s backstory, a brief primer: the son of a wealthy real estate developer who went to prison, in part for retaliating against his brother-in-law for cooperating with federal investigators by hiring a prostitute to seduce the guy, filming the encounter, and sending it to his sister, Kushner attended Harvard to which his dad had reportedly conveniently pledged $2.5 million shortly before he was accepted. In Cambridge, Massachusetts, he drove a Range Rover around campus, and according to a classmate, “He didn’t do it with a sense of humor. He did it, like, ‘I’m fucking rich.’” At 27, he became CEO of his family’s business while his father was in prison and was known for, among other things, buying an aging skyscraper on the eve of the financial crisis for a then record price of $1.8 billion—a deal that subsequently blew up in his face. In 2006, he purchased the New York Observer for $10 million with what he said was his own money earned doing real estate deals during his time at Harvard, not mentioning that the backing for those investments reportedly came fromhis family. You may have also heard that he has zero government experience but got his current gig because his father-in-law is the president, which is also the only reason he was able to obtain his security clearance.

    All of which is to say, when people think of hard-working, boot-strapping individuals who’ve succeeded purely on their own merits, they don’t think of the Boy Prince of New Jersey, who has effectively earned nothing in his life and has had everything handed to him by either his rich father or rich father-in-law, while nevertheless thinking he’s found himself on third base because he hit a triple. And yet, strangely, here’s what he had to say about Black people on Monday morning while—we think??— trying to convince said Black people to vote for Donald Trump:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/jared-kushner-black-community-success

     

     


    So a tirade against Kushner and companies that underpaid blacks doubles for not addressing the point Rolling Stone never quite addressed, where & in what professions & to what extent educated blacks are underpaid? I mean, everyone here knows blacks get screwed, so you're not divulging anything new. What would be new is to understand better with say black women completing college in record numbers, where that education is working and helping lift higher, and where it's struggling against the tide. That's even the purpose largely for student aid.

    But if you were a white professional journalist these last 10 years, guess what? You're lucky to have a job, even if it's piecemeal gig work. The industry's collapsed. So if you want to gauge black women underpaid in journalism, well, it's race to the bottom - some investor dude even bought the LA Times and fired most of the staff to cut costs - newspapers run themselves apparently.

    Where else does this go on? I mean, we've been hearing the "women only paid X%" for so long, but we know *part* of that is *some* women also double as mom's which affects time on job, which is a realistic issue with quality of work yet also discrimination, especially for those who juggle well, so we haven't quite mastered the contradiction. And it also affects which jobs women will choose, in order to juggle. Yet black women will be no different, except worse of solo parenting, but what percentage of degrees do they get when we're analyzing this situation? And then what's happening with the guys of course - is it just status quo, or areas of hope, some success stories? I'm really curious, actually - what's progress look like since say 1970, 1990? But no, back off into the weeds.

    Look at all these minority shops destroyed in riots - what success stories are behind these now defunct efforts, and how many like them are there, struggling against the pandemic, but without it a sign of change in America? AA talks about decrease in crime in the Bronx - what did blacks do after the crime went down? What jobs thrived, what businesses? Of course there'll be racism, but will we ever hear the other part? I mean, i worked with a lot of professional blacks 20 years ago, especially in finance and accounting - how much discrimination do they face *AND* how much success is there? Don't your us to death, or if it is that dire, tell it to is straight, with facts, stats.


    Pay analysis - accurate? Idunno


    Here's some things to think about along those lines, though.

    Formerly incarcerated males probably get like nearly zero privilege in our society, especially as regards employment; many of them are black.

    Veterans traditionally get considerable privilege, but maybe less so since Vietnam era and more knowledge of  and publicity about mental illness among their ranks?

    Edit to add: must have read a gazillion articles now how current M.D.'s  feel that they have much less privilege in our society than their predecessors. And lower income as well. (Some specialties like plastic surgeons still have high income, but never ranked that high as far as privilege or respect if they let their specialty be known.Income has never been the sole entry requirement to a certain high level of privilege in our society. That has always been worse in the mother country,.however, part of the reason we left.)


    He doesn't have privilege? Concealing hundreds of millions in offshore accounts to evade taxes expecting not to get caught is not privileged behavior? Billionaires of all colors don't act with privilege, only white ones? Getting a head start by going to Columbia Business School is not privilege? Having a wife that was once a Playboy Playmate?

    Billionaire Robert F. Smith Seeks $24.5 Million on Malibu’s Carbon Beach

    By James McClain @ Variety, Nov. 8

    It’s perhaps no surprise that Robert F. Smith, the Colorado-born private equity multibillionaire, has decided to sell one of his two lavish Malibu homes. Just a few days ago, news broke that the 57-year-old Columbia Business School alum paid $48.2 million to Rockstar energy drink founder Russ Weiner for a lavish Palm Beach estate originally built by Elin Nordegren, Tiger Woods’ ex-wife. And last month, Smith agreed to pay $140 million to settle a four-year criminal tax probe that accused him of deliberately evading taxes by concealing hundreds of millions in offshore accounts.

    Smith and his wife Hope Dworaczyk, a former Playboy Playmate, purchased the Malibu property in 2018 for $18.7 million. But they never actually moved into the house; instead, it was used as a short-term, Airbnb-style rental for private parties and quick stays [....]


    You should do Oprah Winfrey next.


    Oprah is a true meritocrat, she got where she is with skills selling empathy for every other individual person, the opposite of tribalism and oppression olympics. And boy does it sell well. And virtually no one would ever not want to live next to her. It's a model others should definitely think about when they blame the other about not being able to get any power. Ever think of walking in someone else's shoes (showing a little understanding for "the other") instead of fighting over the scraps of every last preference?


    So a Black billionaire marries a Playboy Playmate

    He developed a reliability test for semiconductors at Bell Labs while in high school

    He earned a chemical engineering degree at Cornell

    Then earned an MBA from Columbia 

    Not a meritocrat?


    Why East Asians but not South Asians are underrepresented in leadership positions in the United States

    Jackson G. Lu, Richard E. Nisbett, and Michael W. Morris

    RESEARCH ARTICLE @ PNAS. oef, March 3, 2020 117 (9) 4590-4600; first published February 18, 2020; https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1918896117

    1. Contributed by Richard E. Nisbett, December 13, 2019 (sent for review October 30, 2019; reviewed by Stephen J. Ceci, Robert B. Cialdini, and Dov Cohen

    Significance

    Whereas extensive research has examined the “glass ceiling” faced by women, little research has examined the “bamboo ceiling,” whereby Asians appear disproportionately underrepresented in leadership positions in the United States. To investigate the mechanisms and scope of this problem, we compared the two largest Asian subgroups: East Asians and South Asians. Across nine studies (n = 11,030), East Asians were less likely than South Asians and whites to attain leadership positions, whereas South Asians outperformed whites. The leadership attainment gap between East Asians and South Asians was consistently explained by cultural differences in assertiveness, but not by prejudice or motivation. To leverage diverse leadership talent, organizations should understand the differences among different cultural groups and diversify the prototype of leadership.

    Abstract

    Well-educated and prosperous, Asians are called the “model minority” in the United States. However, they appear disproportionately underrepresented in leadership positions, a problem known as the “bamboo ceiling.” It remains unclear why this problem exists and whether it applies to all Asians or only particular Asian subgroups. To investigate the mechanisms and scope of the problem, we compared the leadership attainment of the two largest Asian subgroups in the United States: East Asians (e.g., Chinese) and South Asians (e.g., Indians). Across nine studies (n = 11,030) using mixed methods (archival analyses of chief executive officers, field surveys in large US companies, student leader nominations and elections, and experiments), East Asians were less likely than South Asians and whites to attain leadership positions, whereas South Asians were more likely than whites to do so. To understand why the bamboo ceiling exists for East Asians but not South Asians, we examined three categories of mechanisms—prejudice (intergroup), motivation (intrapersonal), and assertiveness (interpersonal)—while controlling for demographics (e.g., birth country, English fluency, education, socioeconomic status). Analyses revealed that East Asians faced less prejudice than South Asians and were equally motivated by work and leadership as South Asians. However, East Asians were lower in assertiveness, which consistently mediated the leadership attainment gap between East Asians and South Asians. These results suggest that East Asians hit the bamboo ceiling because their low assertiveness is incongruent with American norms concerning how leaders should communicate. The bamboo ceiling is not an Asian issue, but an issue of cultural fit.

    full article, Figures & SI, Info & Metrics all available free


    note they conclude that the problem is cultural and NOT "racial".


    If judging by income alone (which of course doesn't really fit the definition of "privilege" for everyone using the term, as some would apply it to a ski bum living on savings )

     it would be Asian-Americans (including numerous sub-tribes, see last chart)

     

     

    Some interesting Census Bureau data on median household income of Asian Americans vs. White Households. pic.twitter.com/m3LfWaxdhL

    — Mark J. Perry (@Mark_J_Perry) May 18, 2020

     


    Still implies lots of people voted for Trump based on Obama's recovery after Bush's disastrous crash.



    A good argument that many Asian-Americans feel a lack of privilege as Americans. depending upon how Asian their features are:


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