[Learning about Extremists, Part III] Boogaloos suggest alliances with leftists

    [Part I is here; Part II is here of news & analysis]

    Happy to answer more questions or present more examples, but this was Jimmy Dore’s original tweet.

    I think this list of positions is generally consistent with the stated beliefs of “boogaloos,” but that doesn’t mean they have common ground with the left across the board. https://t.co/cxr7jQ9hJP

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) January 26, 2021

    continued after the jump

    It seems like there’s a bit of an Internet kerfuffle right now following an interview @jimmy_dore did with a “boogaloo boy” proposing a left-boogaloo alliance.

    I wanted to showcase some of how attempts to do that worked in the past year. https://t.co/EfjuVrhGC3

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) January 26, 2021

    that's a whole thread with some history

    When my contributor @SCWKorsgaard interviewed “Boogaloo Boy” Mike Dunn in November, he qualified his support for the BLM movement by saying they’re “not just far left.” https://t.co/7vO6Vwr9ve

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) January 26, 2021

    more today:

    Happy to answer more questions or present more examples, but this was Jimmy Dore’s original tweet.

    I think this list of positions is generally consistent with the stated beliefs of “boogaloos,” but that doesn’t mean they have common ground with the left across the board. https://t.co/cxr7jQ9hJP

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) January 26, 2021


    this is well said about the problem with anarchism with a left bent, it's awful dreamy and unrealistic to believe you can furnish left goals with little or no government, that it can all be kumbaya you don't need police firemen doctors or lawyers, everyone just helps their neighbor. First of all the wild west was not like in the movies and second, now we have big corporations

    lmao that "boogaloo boy" dore interviewed called himself a libertarian, said he's against medicare for all bc it's government healthcare and also opposes taxes, public education and other public services. in other words he wants total corporate tyrannypic.twitter.com/B3mWJgIrA2

    — (@zei_squirrel) January 25, 2021


    very interesting, J.J. MacNab sees a link between reinvigorated growth/popularization of sovereign citizen movement and related like QAnon etc., and the fallout from the 2009 real estate crash, also there are "new age" roots:


    Oath Keepers thread.

    — JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) January 23, 2021

    Three Individuals Affiliated With the Oath Keepers Indicted in Federal Court for Conspiracy to Obstruct Congress on Jan. 6, 2021 https://t.co/r8ZhE1GFbA

    — JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) January 27, 2021

    I presume that means she's going to keep continuing it....

    makes me recall a string of interesting tweets by her on the sovereign citizen movement, I think I posted some on the Part II thread.

    note from above

    ....the report says that Macias told officers that he spoke very limited English - a translator had to be called in to read Macias his Miranda rights.

    It’s not clear why he was in Washington – or if he’s affiliated with any groups.

    Macias has been released on the condition he stays away from the White House.

    time for a humor break:

    Important reminder:

    old style still around:

    Reminder: Assange suborned extremist behavior, e.g. hacking of governments and orgs, with massive unfiltered data dumps - "suborning espionage".

    The UK extradition hearing, while ruling US prisons were too rough 'n tough, basically ruled as well that Wikileaks is not a journalistic organization, and what Assange does is not journalism.

    Tie this to stoking other crowds - BLM, Proud Boys/Oath Keepers, and often the GOP rank & file. Maybe the new woke culture crowds, tho at least their behavior isn't illegal.


    speak of the devil, he's got ACLU advocating for him to the Biden DOJ; so it goes:


    Extremist Branding 101

    thanks for this, the marketing of all this as cool, is a major part of the problem.

    And not just with right wing extremists. It's also a problem with rap culture!  Whereas law-abiding family men are ridiculed as boomer dad culture, pitiful emasculateds. (Where is Dick Tracy and Eliot Ness when you need them?)

    cross link to August 2019 article:


    By artappraiser on Fri, 08/09/2019 - 9:37pm |

    Testimony over a brawl at the Metropolitan Republican Club has focused on extremists who also skirmish online.

    By Colin Moynihan @ NYTimes.com, Aug. 8

    Yeah, I had already come to this conclusion judging from seeing a lot of Ngo's stuff over many months at the same time as others, that Ngo is a blatant anti-antifa propagandist, he plays lots of games with videos & photos of protests One does get the impression that it started out with a genuine hatred of radical lefties in Portland but then progressed to something more opportunist because he discovered the market is large, it's like he's more blatant all the time because it sells

    this guy, Dave Troy, looks like a good find as to expertise on the shit-stirring influencers of QAnon, many of them once reasonable men now gone wack; found retweeted by JJ MacNab (bizzarro feeling on seeing Larry Johnson on his list as part of VIPS as he was also a columnist at TPMCafe for a considerable length,  and he used to interact with lots of us commenters there, actually seemed relatively centrist on most stuff like terrorism, tho a tough talker, but then he would just go wack all of a sudden every so often; I believe he quit in a snit over such commenting, not fired)

    THREAD: QAnon was enabled in part by former military and intelligence professionals "gone wild." They lent credibility to the myth and laundered QAnon messaging to the public, sometimes via E-list "influencers." Here are some of the key personnel.

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    2/MICHAEL T. FLYNN is at the very center of the Q operation. As a US Army Lt. General and as former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, he has extensive knowledge of military/intel ops and the mechanics of insurgency. He also deeply resents his treatment by USG – a theme. pic.twitter.com/n2Af1IlaiO

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    3/BILL BINNEY retired in protest from NSA in 2001 after spat with @GenMhayden. He collaborated with Putinphile Oliver Stone (A Good American; Snowden), and has appeared on many Q content channels re: child sex abuse, directed energy weapons; he is part of https://t.co/ZNSp5IREyo

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    4/ROBERT DAVID STEELE, retired CIA, has appeared on countless Q-influencer channels. He drove the Pizzagate story in 2016. Has ties to Iran-connected ops, and also Russia info channels. Part of https://t.co/ZNSp5IREyo. Reform party pres. candidate, 2012. https://t.co/nKKxSEUe5j

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    5/KIRK WIEBE, former NSA, is a colleague of Binney's. He was part of a pro-Russia group with Binney called VIPS. Has endorsed ITNJ activities. Appeared in a video with Binney and Oliver Stone's son Sean Stone, Sep 2020, on channel "Triangle of Paganism." https://t.co/OVMh2L90YP

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    6/ED LOOMIS, another NSA colleague of Binney and Wiebe; also part of VIPS. He appeared in the Oliver Stone-produced film "A Good American" with Binney. https://t.co/JXzjoADJ4v

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    7/LARRY C. JOHNSON is a former CIA + State Dept official, turned conspiracist; also part of VIPS. Signed Dec 2016 VIPS memo saying Russia was not behind the DNC hack; foundational to the Seth Rich lie. Believes Russia did not interfere in 2016. https://t.co/P0qPNnr8Oi

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    8/RAY MCGOVERN is a retired CIA official who has been a longtime guest of Alex Jones on InfoWars; also on left channels like Democracy Now. In Jan 2017, he wrote an op-ed with Binney saying DNC emails weren’t hacked, but leaked. Vehemently pro-Assange. https://t.co/bKU9eNWwy1

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    10/RUSSELL BRUEMMER, former top lawyer at CIA + congressional affairs lead at FBI, formed cryptocurrency company Indeco with alleged QAnon/Shadowbox collaborator Trevor Fitzgibbon. May have used alias Hiro Tokumei. https://t.co/XLRAogWai6https://t.co/vbnZx4f2AF

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    the above was Dave's first 23, here's the rest to date:

    24/And about ITNJ... The International Tribunal of Natural Justice is a bizarre organization led by Rhodesian "rock star" Sacha Stone and pushed Q themes of child trafficking, pandemic disinfo, 5G disinfo very early. Many in this network are affiliated. https://t.co/za00cFCguf

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    For those interested, other related Sacha Stone orgs include https://t.co/daKwh95Rqh and https://t.co/45RfrUpctx — both of which routinely spew various disinformation.

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    25/CASEY GRAY is a former CIA and Special Forces veteran affiliated with organizations called GoldCorp, Beyond SOF (Steve Brignoli), and Strategic Fitness LLC. Gray reportedly visited the Capitol on January 5th. https://t.co/gZtNNHQx5x

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    26/BRADLEY JOHNSON, ret. CIA, of "Americans for Intelligence Reform" promoting "Italygate" — the insane conspiracy theory that says... something something, Italy, voting machines, conspiracy. https://t.co/nUzmlusIXU

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    27/Please note: these people are not the norm, and career Mil/IC/Gov professionals are, overwhelmingly, patriots who abhor this activity.

    The defection of these people to dark causes is, in fact, evidence of their alienation from the mainstream of their profession.

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    28/There are also many other well-known people involved in promoting these messages who are ex-military: Jim Watkins (8kun/Q - Army, helicopter repair) and Steve Bannon (Trump - Navy), most notably.https://t.co/KZ9sIFLQqe

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    29/MICHAEL JACO, who claims to be a former US Navy Seal, has a large YouTube following and has been pushing Q themes and disinfo. Here he can be heard discussing "spiritual defense against the Coronavirus" on the "Gnostic Warrior Podcast."https://t.co/Sg53GnkK72

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    30/TERRY TURCHIE (ret. Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division; former head of CI program at Lawrence Livermore National Lab), is featured on this heavily Flynn-centric podcast talking about "the real insurrection in congress." https://t.co/zS9psbToKT

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021

    31/TERPSICHORE "TORE" MARAS-LINDEMAN served in the Navy less than a year, over 20 years ago; claims to have secret clearance, have worked for gov contractors. She was Sidney Powell's "secret witness" for claims of election fraud; ft. in Q "Shadowgate" doc. https://t.co/riUiZT433Y

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 15, 2021

    32/DAN BONGINO, ubiquitous right-wing media persona and alleged partner in defunct Mercer-backed social media network #Parler, formerly served in the US Secret Service. According to ABC News in 2013, he "turned on Obama."https://t.co/WWGoLXp3wg

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 15, 2021

    33/RICH HIGGINS, US Army, served in multiple positions in the Trump administration, including the NSC. He penned a controversial memo on “Global Marxism” in 2017; background in Special Ops, military intel, strategic security.https://t.co/SDnOBtal1q

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 15, 2021

    Is she still an employee at that facility?

    — Margaret Chesser (@MargaretChesse7) February 14, 2021

    I don't know. I have some impression she may have retired but would need to confirm.

    — Dave Troy (@davetroy) February 14, 2021


    So that's what he's got for now, I find it's pretty damning as far as disaffected exiles from the "Deep State", and I think he's right about it being a major intel failure!

     I put in discussion I saw, but I may have missed some.

    Dave Troy self describes on Twitter as Co-curator, host @TEDxMidAtlantic. Johns Hopkins. Network analyst, disinformation specialist. Speaker.

    Would also like to mention one of my own thoughts, inspired by where he says @ 21 and 27

    So me may wonder why these folks went down this path. From research, the common theme we have found is that they are disaffected from the mainstream of their professional community. Alienation is often a cause of radicalization.


    Please note: these people are not the norm, and career Mil/IC/Gov professionals are, overwhelmingly, patriots who abhor this activity. The defection of these people to dark causes is, in fact, evidence of their alienation from the mainstream of their profession.

    that made me think of this recent initial research reported on at WaPo of which I posted an excerpt in Dag's news section


    By artappraiser on Thu, 02/11/2021 - 1:45am |

    Trail of bankruptcies, tax problems and bad debts raises questions for researchers trying to understand motivations for attack

    By Todd C. Frankel @ WashingtonPost.com, Feb. 10

    It seems like the same zeitgeist of frustrated failed people, many of who reached certain heights and then had a crash, who don't believe in such a thing as bad luck and must go out of their way to find a conspiracy or a scapegoat why things didn't work out for them, they have to create a rigged system and a savior because bad luck doesn't make sense and they are stable geniuses....etc. 

    (Kind of makes me proud that I had equal or much worse crashes/disasters in my recent life and I didn't go off in search of conspiracy to explain them. I do happen to scream, though, whenever I hear someone say "you make your own luck", one of the evilest nostrums in the self-improvement shtick for sale, mho. I admit I DID sometimes find some solace when stressed near breaking, in looking at the better astrology and tarot sites online, as if they are the ancient "fates", BUT here's the diff: doing it a pretend way, a sort of "what if" way. In a way doing that helps you let go that you can't change everything, no savoirs, no reason, just go with the flow....)

    This is great news as Frontline is very good at disseminating nuanced understanding! yes, only public-tv fans watch but the facts learned eventually get spread to friends, family & acquaintances. Part of the magic they do is due to the fact they are not pay tv but on the free "airwaves" so they reach those who do not have the money or know-how for sophisticated information access. Plus they are very good at making drama and excitement about information that most would offer in a  boring "white paper" format.

    like Frontline because it fights this syndrome, as it did post 9/11:


    believe-it-or-not !!! (check out whole thread-these are excerpts from the middle)

    Parler & sock puppets (thread)

    What did happen to those Macedonian troll farms?

    both re-tweeted by JJ MacNab

    this part of the opposing fringe is not anarchist but xenophobic:


    The five men were believed by authorities to have ties to a regional militia group, the New England Minutemen, based on a tactical manual recovered when they were taken intocust ody by Troy police on June 7.

    further descriptions in article sounds like Boogaloo types: ex-military, anti-cop & pro BLM

    Just a reminder that Don Jr. "gets" them and feeds them more than his dad does:

    Not for MAGA and not for Trump but The Boogaloo Bois Have Guns, Criminal Records and Military Training. Now They Want to Overthrow the Government.

    ProPublica and FRONTLINE have identified more than twenty members with ties to the armed forces.

    by A.C. Thompson, ProPublica, and Lila Hassan and Karim Hajj, FRONTLINE,  Feb. 1, 11 a.m. EST

    [....] In the weeks since Jan. 6, an array of extremist groups have been named as participants in the Capitol invasion. The Proud Boys. QAnon believers. White nationalists. The Oath Keepers. But the Boogaloo Bois are notable for the depth of their commitment to the overthrow of the U.S. government and the jaw-dropping criminal histories of many members.

    Mike Dunn, a 20-year-old from a small town on Virginia’s rural southern edge, is the commander of the Last Sons. “I really feel we’re looking at the possibility — stronger than any time since, say, the 1860s — of armed insurrection,” Dunn said in an interview with ProPublica and FRONTLINE a few days after the assault on the Capitol. Although Dunn didn’t directly participate, he said members of his Boogaloo faction helped fire up the crowd and “may” have penetrated the building.

    “It was a chance to mess with the federal government again,” he said. “They weren’t there for MAGA. They weren’t there for Trump.”

    Dunn added that he’s “willing to die in the streets” while battling law enforcement or security forces.

    In its short existence, the Boogaloo movement has proven to be a magnet for current or former military service members who have used their combat skills and firearms expertise to advance the Boogaloo cause. Before becoming one of the faces of the movement, Dunn did a brief stint in the U.S. Marines, a career he says was cut short by a heart condition, and worked as a Virginia state prison guard.

    Through interviews, extensive study of social media and a review of court records, some previously unreported, ProPublica and FRONTLINE identified more than 20 Boogaloo Bois or sympathizers who’ve served in the armed forces. Over the past 18 months, 13 of them have been arrested on charges ranging from the possession of illegal automatic weapons to the manufacture of explosives to murder.

    Most of the individuals identified by the news organizations became involved with the movement after leaving the military. At least four are accused of committing Boogaloo-related crimes while employed by one of the military branches.

    Examples of the nexus between the group and the military abound.

    Last year, an FBI task force in San Francisco opened a domestic terror investigation into Aaron Horrocks, a 39-year-old former Marine Corps reservist. Horrocks spent eight years in the Reserve before leaving the Corps in 2017.

    The bureau became alarmed in September 2020, when agents received a tip that Horrocks, who lives in Pleasanton, California, was “planning an imminent violent attack on government or law enforcement,” according to a petition to seize the man’s firearms, which was filed in state court in October. The investigation, which has not previously been reported, links Horrocks to the Boogaloo movement. He has not been charged [....]

    Wikipedia on The Anarchist Cookbook,

    first published in 1971,[1] is a book that contains instructions for the manufacture of explosives, rudimentary telecommunications phreaking devices, and related weapons, as well as instructions for home manufacturing of illicit drugs, including LSD. It was written by William Powell at the apex of the counterculture era to protest against United States involvement in the Vietnam War.[2] Powell converted to Anglicanism in 1976, and later attempted to have the book removed from circulation, but the copyright belonged to the publisher who continued circulation until the company was acquired in 1991. Its legality has been questioned in several jurisdictions [....] 


    Twitter moderator M.I.A.?

    (haven't watched yet)

    More than five years ago at our Program, then Assistant Attorney General John Carlin announced the creation of a Domestic Terrorism Coordinator at @TheJusticeDept https://t.co/hDtHYBbEya

    — Program On Extremism (@gwupoe) February 27, 2021

    ‘Acting Deputy Attorney General John Carlin Delivers Remarks on Domestic Terrorism’ https://t.co/VYfSQcY1Fs

    — Program On Extremism (@gwupoe) February 27, 2021

    New from @START_UMD re QAnon offenders in the U.S. https://t.co/mHqEGXpW7L pic.twitter.com/83SE7QLhHY

    — Matthew Levitt (@Levitt_Matt) February 25, 2021

    I'm looking forward to this one. https://t.co/4gNSYyNNv6

    — JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) February 26, 2021

    ...and in another comedy film, the gang from RENO 911! will return to take us on an elusive search for QAnon. #ParamountPlus pic.twitter.com/3nV6fvbdV7

    — Paramount+ (@paramountplus) February 24, 2021

    Colorado white supremacist who planned to blow up Pueblo synagogue sentenced to federal prison https://t.co/YyZCdUloBz

    — JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) February 27, 2021


    After viewing all of the examples in the thread, I am not sure the "Left" even exists.

    I prefer self identified groups over overlapping groups saying what other groups are.

    "antifa" for "anti-fascist is a good broad word, how about using that? cheeky

    More seriously, first, I am flattered that you spent time looking at it.

    Second, I am just going with "extremist". Works for me. Like Joe splained, they are at the "fringes". Not left, not right, way way out of the field.

    What's in common? They virtually all meet with not liking gummint of any size! It's all some form of anarchy one way or another.

     Some are violent, some just like the idea of self-defense with weapons in small groups (after all, there's so many idyllic scenes in season after season in "Walking Dead" that must have inspired them!), and some, like Ms. Patrisse of BLM, just have kumbaya  visions of a world singing in perfect harmony where no one has any power over anyone else and insane people don't kill their relatives and eat them with potatoes.

    a deja vus allover again anecdote: about 15 years ago, I finally started doing a little bit of genealogical research to verify (or not) family stories. Including looking at the Ellis Island records from the early 20th century (they are in big scans available on line) You can read all the questions the immigrants were asked and their answers. Believe it or not one of the questions from like 1905 to 1912 at least:


    What was amusing to me is the dumb question thing .From reading history and period magazines like The Masses, I know what anarchists were up to in this country at that time. And as expected, I did not run across anyone who said "yes" in looking at at many pages (and I do know of people refused entry for health reasons, you will still see them on the book, just crossed out.). 

    The thing is: lots of people like my granny were illiterate peasants and didn't keep up with the news. But they all knew the answer to that question should be "no", hah.

    It was like a bizarre historical word that had no meaning anymore. And here we are.

    Do ppl have to self-identity to exist? I can call myself a southern cracker one moment, Eurotrash the next, some kind of Democratic centrist with abandonment issues the next... Where's the ornithologist to observe and label?

    Well, I expressed a preference rather than disavowing the naming of creatures altogether.

    If the Cracker mainly stays on his porch and shoots squirrels when they get too close, that is one thing. If the Cracker joins the KKK and starts going to meetings wearing sheets, that is another.

    I expect more self-representation from the latter.

    But if a Cracker falls in the woods and nobody notices...

    That would be a good time for the Euro trash to hit the disco in order to address some of those abandonment issues.

    Thanks, Doc - how much I owe ya?

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