[POLICING ISSUES] Starting with the NYTimes on "Gang Takedowns"

    [Previous thread here: Policing Problems Redux, May 23 thru Aug 27]

    Gang takedowns are good. Shooters are arrested. Shooters are people who shoot people. Gang takedowns are "disputed" by like a dozen people. And the New York Times found them all!

    "As Shootings Increased, N.Y.C Returned to Disputed Tactic: Gang Takedowns" https://t.co/VioqYtJ0my

    — Peter Moskos (@PeterMoskos) August 29, 2021


    Glanced at the wording on this misconduct ruling in the UK as regards court testimony by a relatively high police officer. I like the wording I have highlighted; as the point of all this kind of thing should not be revenge nor a sociological experiment of some kumbaya ideal society, nor blaming police for prosecutor spin if they do it, but simply making a force that the majority of the public, who is paying the salaries, trusts!

    Misconduct found for Met Chief Superintendent over misleading witness statement

    A senior Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) officer committed misconduct when he made an incomplete, inaccurate and misleading witness statement in a criminal case, a disciplinary panel has decided.

    The outcome follows our investigation.

    Chief Superintendent (Ch Supt) Simon Ovens, based at New Scotland Yard, faced allegations that he: 

    • knowingly provided false and misleading information in a statement provided to the police for the purposes of a prosecution
    • failed to check his work phone prior to writing this statement with the effect that he provided a statement that was false, misleading and inaccurate
    • and those actions brought discredit on the police force and/or undermined public confidence in it.

    An independently-chaired disciplinary panel found misconduct proven at a two-day hearing, organised by the force, which finished yesterday (Thursday 26 August). [....]

    Ideally police shoud be more trusted than prosecutors, not less. Prosecutors are advocates; police should be like every other expert witness:

    My impression is police are used to lying about details in reports, at least in the US - don't know how true or widespread.


    Applicable to the NYTimes piece on gang takedowns:

    How a lot of people see reporting on police misconduct now, including me, especially after getting to know the percentages; well said:

    One report like this in isolation is news. A steady stream of reports highlighting alleged unfair treatment of suspects and convicts, combined with a lack of attention given to suffering and losses caused by criminals, amounts to political propaganda. https://t.co/EaPl8VJo5y

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) August 29, 2021

    What the tweet doesn't address is the ENORMOUS harm such unbalanced propaganda has done to our society and its rule of law.

    "2 Milly" reports: already defunded; sources say: not going swimmingly:



    not about police misconduct but that of a prosecutor (which is a much more important problem, mho):

    This childish version of BLM is extra-counterproductive, revealing total lack of self-control and basically lack of ability to think at all. Especially as it is bias verification for the police to negatively profile nearly everyone the neighborhood

    oh that attack on police also included some Jan. 6-type behavior one can see in this short video, otherwise known as rioting; it appears the rioters were mostly "p.o.c." - 

    (1/2) On Friday, 9/3, at approximately 10:32 pm, a group approached the @NYPD46Pct in order to protest a police involved shooting that occurred on Sunday, 8/29/21. While protesting, the group began to push barricades into the officers protecting the precinct as well as… pic.twitter.com/iKy515rej2

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) September 5, 2021

    (note that planning to burn a police car is a serious crime though you might not think so given the many times it happened across the country in the summer of 2020)

    and another one:

    Police stop enforcing shoplifting as a crime, as all they get for it is grief, therefore it quickly grows into the province of organized crime and therefore a private corporate police force grows bigger every day.

    And former police paid by the public say "take this job and shove it" and go for those jobs instead?

    Is that what "reform" advocates intended? An army of private police?  Huh?

    "Chicago’s rising violent crime: How to hold politicians and judges accountable? Connect the dots."

    In Chicago, violent crime is the number one issue. People vote with their feet or their wheels. And drive away. My latest column https://t.co/fZ9cx3YVnd

    — John Kass (@John_Kass) September 5, 2021

    P.S. CWBChicago recommended.and Peter Moskos too

    cross-link to rmrd's separate post of WaPo op-ed by violence interrupters in Minneapolis, as per above, one half of the solution:



    Horrible that this even needs to be said. Kim Foxx's office in Chicago is a extra special disaster; this happens consistently there:

    An example where "defunded" surely equals more crime:

    :"Broken windows" -

    "Nature abhors a vacuum."

    When respect for the law is lost, the underworld begins to take over. https://t.co/DdlGX205qC

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 7, 2021

    edit to add:

    There was just a loud drunk domestic squabble outside my house. I watched. I judged. I pondered root causes. And then I opened my front door, raised my voice as loud as I possible can and shouted "shut the fuck up!"
    Problem solved. They don't teach that in de-escalation training.

    — Peter Moskos (@PeterMoskos) September 7, 2021

    Also, after my strong vocal assertion, one party (I would say the unjustifiably aggrieved party, but who am I to judge?) kind of asserted, to me: "What are you going to do about it?" But whatever. That was face saving. And then they walked away. Without fighting.

    — Peter Moskos (@PeterMoskos) September 7, 2021

    Though seriously (I was being serious) the value of letting people know they're being watched matters. After I yelled, somebody from across the street did, too. This is Jane Jacobs. This is "eyes on the street." This is Broken Windows. Police weren't needed, but policing was.

    — Peter Moskos (@PeterMoskos) September 7, 2021

    (Needless to say, you don't do the latter if your neighborhood has already deteriorated to the point where you could easily be shot for doing it. you do it to keep your neighborhood from deteriorating to that point..I think too many "Karen's" are being unfairly castigated for filling this role in neighborhoods that haven't deteriorated to that point yet.)

    On San Francisco's crazy level of OD deaths:

    10 May - 25,000 dead in US

    27 May - 100,000 dead, 29k in New York (probably undercounted)

    11 June - The United States has reported a total of 2,000,464 cases and 112,908 deaths.

    It's quite possible people had other things on their minds


    good point, at sametime hearing gunshots at home while you're shut in, I dunno, maybe make reporting more likely, or are calls before that time all people out and about? there really was a lot of support for the intial protests, the video did have an emotional effect, I think fear and panic about Covid got transferred in many cases irrationally to Derek Chauvin and all police branded as him. A palapable bogeyman,

    Edit to add: remember a WaPo article from early on during protests, an expert warning that even tho support was high at the time, that it would fade, that it was emotional reaction to individual example.of prejudice and as people had more time to ponder such things, they reconsider their initial opinion. (The op-ed itself was along the lines that is also why it is important for protesters to be rigorous about message and behavior, i.e., MLK Jr., and show the other guy as the bully, long term; that otherwise initial mass support fades.)

    I don't mean to dismiss it, just point out there are often other factors besides our fave theory-supporting personal bias one. 

    this type of thing is probably going to happen more often with the job market as it is?

    WA state prison guard is suspected violent outlaw motorcycle gang leader https://t.co/SCqNdNtGnF

    — John Sullivan (@ZFTWARNING) September 11, 2021

    Ha ha ha - guess when a doped up criminal/ex-con attacks and steals your taser, running away during arrest, you should call a mental health professional. Wonder how that "training" is gonna look.

    PS - the dumbfuck has an "estate" now? Who knew. The cop should countersue - physical assault that caused mental anguish, work stoppage, undeserved loss of reputation. Whoever's feeding this fucktard's family with cash can put a lot more in the till.


    As per the idea of taking police off of traffic duty to avoid supposed problematic and abusive stops, here's how using cameras for traffic violations instead of humans and other lenient laws regarding driving is working out in New York state:

    also, on supposedly abusive traffic stops:

    The "abolish prisons and jails" meme is getting political attention in NY today:

    Welcome to this morning's edition of Sociopaths on the Loose ... https://t.co/d7gVuLbrnt

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 13, 2021

    1) Make it impossible for people to work there.
    2) Point to the crisis you helped create and use it as an excuse for trying to plague the city with violent criminals. https://t.co/g0udmj4mka

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 13, 2021

    Eleven "state senators" and a handful of public defender reps will tour Rikers Island on Monday, to point out problems they helped bring into being. https://t.co/GJ9TXHZ0TX

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 13, 2021

    '... 10 in-custody deaths since December; units in the jail complex going unstaffed for 24 hours or more; five-day stretches in crowded intake cells before detainees are provided a bed; overlong quarantine periods, and; failures to produce detainees for court appearances.'

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 13, 2021

    So, are we ready to restore the practice of placing unruly detainees in solitary confinement, yet, or are we still complaining that this practice is "torture"?

    Alternatively, unruly detainees could be confined to the residences of compassionate public defenders. https://t.co/wRebVG7sat

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 12, 2021

    On the controversy over the SHOTSPOTTER technology in use by several police forces in cities:

    But your so-called public advocate doesn't like ShotSpotter, because, well ... see for yourselves. https://t.co/i7DDzcUkzE

    — Crime in NYC (@CrimeInNYC) September 12, 2021

    Not to mention the NRA and friends, of course, their fight for "freedom" to use firemans in localities where they are outlawed, supposedly flaunting the 2nd Amendment. Shoot off guns wherever you damn well feel like it, without any A.I. Big Brother listening for the sound?

    got to admit he is very good at the "all hat, no cattle" accusations about government liberals, nudging them to actually do something besides talk.

    Can think of many parties who won't like this one bit, but police scanner addicts will have severe withdrawal:

    I wrote a thing. https://t.co/bCV1pwCqqn

    — MolotovFlicker Ignoring Your Questions Since 1902® (@MolotovFlicker) September 14, 2021

    this is how our system is supposed to work: you don't abolish or defund police and prisons (which is libertarian "no government is capable of doing good" thinking,) you vote for people who will install those in the judiciary branch who safeguard civil rights by being a overseer of what local law enforcement is doing. You want Federal government doing exactly these things. Example: how Jim Crow was finally dismantled. You got Jim Crow because Federal government for a long time was using a light hand interfering with what southern states and locality law enforcement was doing.

    On Monday, AG Garland announced a review of its use of monitors who oversee the implementation of consent decrees. This has been a concern among community groups in cities where police dept’s are covered by consent decrees after DOJ investigations. https://t.co/ftqZkj6jv5 2/

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    On Tuesday Asst AG for Civil Rights @KristenClarkeJD announced that the @CivilRights Division has opened an investigation into conditions in Georgia’s prisons. This is huge. The humanitarian crisis in southern prisons is a critically important issue. https://t.co/kdBYPDkLVI

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    Then the DOJ announced that it will ban the use of no-knock entries and chokeholds by federal law enforcement officers (except in cases where deadly force is authorized - more to probe abt the exception to be sure) . https://t.co/HT1uKQcNUH

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    And then today Assoc AG @vanitaguptaCR announced a review to ensure that its grant programs to law enforcement comply w/Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which forbids the provision of federal funds to programs engaged in racial discrimination. https://t.co/Ebv8DvP7vm

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a week in which DOJ has announced that it will undertake multiple measures, each with the potential to result in fundamental shifts in longstanding discriminatory practices by officials in the criminal justice system.

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    I’m remembering AG Garland’s confirmation testimony in which he explained that he needed AAG @vanitaguptaCR & Asst AG for Civil Rights @KristenClarkeJD on his team in particular to help him with critical areas of the work with which he does not have experience.

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    This week feels like an important return on his commitment to assembling this rich team. And it’s still Thursday. So there’s still time for more…../

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    For many I know this all may seem slow and clunky - it is after all, the government. I’m gratified to see that they’re using the tools they have to undertake measures civil rights groups have been asking for for years. And they’re working carefully and smart.

    — Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) September 16, 2021

    just fixed incorrect first tweet paste in above, may have been confusing    


    Apparently certain NYPD practices are no longer considered evil in Harlem:

    great replies:

    and in 2020 there was nothing else to listen to if you were stuck at home trying to avoid the reality of killer Covid stalking the whole human race--you had the saga of George Floyd to manipulate the emotions and distract


    One part of me got a real kick out of this video of a small very passionate band of Black anti-vax protesters in Atlanta. Not only are they not fearful of cops, they got an old fart white one right there accompanying them, acting as their protector and crossing guard/traffic director....

    @NICKIMINAJ told the truth to me, Fauci lied to me” Protesters are approaching cars leaving the @CDCgov in ATL.Claiming the CDC is lying about the vaccine& @NICKIMINAJ is telling the truth. More on COVID-19 misinformation & locals protesting the vaccine. @cbs46 pic.twitter.com/6DwNo6ffbn

    — Tori Cooper (@toricoooper) September 15, 2021

    Someone here constantly promoted the idea that the "black community" fears cops. Well this litt,e community obviously doesn't, but they fear vaccinations instead...So which "black community"? The one you are isolated in?

    Constantly attributing similar thinking to one skin color IS racist! I'm sorry if people here find me saying that offensive but I find such racism very offensive! Especially when there are very differently-thinking people with dark skin not just in my Bronx neighborhood (not to mention members of the NYPD) but in my very own family living across this country.

    & sometimes police just boff it

    nice catch. makes you wonder if they are that clueless about finding serial killers as well...

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