MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
By Eric Bradner & Dan Merica @ CNN.com, June 17
Former Vice President Joe Biden on Monday forcefully pushed back against criticism that he is naïve to think Democrats can work with Republicans in Congress after President Donald Trump leaves office [....]
"If you start off with the notion there's nothing you can do, well why don't you all go home then, man? Or let's start a real physical revolution if you're talking about it. Because we have to be able to change what we're doing within our system," Biden said Monday at the Poor People's Campaign Presidential Forum in Washington.
Biden's comment came in response to a question from MSNBC's Joy Reid, who asked how Biden would overcome the opposition to nearly all Democratic ideas during former President Barack Obama's tenure from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky.
"Joy, I know you're one of the ones who thinks it's naïve to think we have to work together," Biden said. "The fact of the matter is, if we can't get a consensus, nothing happens except the abuse of power by the executive. Zero." [....]
Comments
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 12:50am
Oh jeez not this again. This is the same playbook Obama used. He campaigned to be a bipartisan president. He claimed he was the least ideological person he knew. He touted his time as president of the Harvard Law Review as an example of how he can be a mediator between conservative and liberal factions.
Look, I would love to see republicans and democrats work together. But I said in 2008 that we just aren't there any more. Even if there are still a few moderate republicans in the senate that would like to get some bipartisan legislation passed they still fear a primary challenge from the right far more than a democratic challenger in the general. The republican base doesn't want any compromise and republican senators are afraid if they do they'll lose their next primary election.
Biden is wrong. The fever isn't going to break. The only way there is a slim chance it might break is if Trump and the republicans lose in 2020 by landslide proportions. Even then I don't see the fever breaking. Democrats won 60 votes in the senate in 08 and republicans became more resistant to compromise. Republicans would have to lose several election cycles by a substantial margin for them to try a new path forward.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 1:30am
Things were hunky-dorty before Trump.
PS - compassion.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 2:16am
Though Palmer gives an example how bipartisanship *does* work.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:32am
I just think the point that one should takeaway is that like it or not, Biden is going to make this one of the main memes in his campaign. He's unashamedly stressing it. He thinks it's the way to defeat Trump and Trumpism. This is him. You can throw age in: he's old enough that he's not going to change his spots. Advisers & strategists probably go along as they see it as a way to win over the McCain type of swing (Recall how McCain did it too, in many ways, but one example is this famous scene) so he's probably not getting flak or warnings from them. Yes, he's basically daring the progressive wing who don't think that way to put up or shut up. So if you don't like it, he's saying: I'm not your guy. It's at least clarifying for the primary race, he's not pretending to be what he's not.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 10:27am
Yeah, I get it. And that's why he's not my guy. Even if I thought compromise was possible with republicans I don't think Biden is very good at getting good compromises. He gives up his power and gets played by the republicans over and over.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 11:04am
Re-reading the article, he said it loud and proud, it's cited at the end. Also of interest, he moved on to poke at not getting carried away at the "eat the rich" thing as well:
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 11:03am
Someone is going to have to be taxed more to keep the poor and the middle class viable.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 12:20pm
I find it unfortunate that I have to note that the last sentence of quote is
You can't make him into your strawman too. You have to read what the candidates say, not just make it up.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 12:32pm
That was in his comments as well.
Edit to add:
Here is a great take on why Biden’s bipartisanship plan fails today.
https://progresspond.com/2019/06/19/where-biden-is-right-and-wrong-about-bygone-civility/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 2:20pm
Bill de Blasio
https://mobile.twitter.com/BilldeBlasio/status/1141371930915803136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1141371930915803136%7Ctwgr%5E393039363b636f6e74726f6c&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedailybeast.com%2Fcory-booker-tees-off-on-biden-for-his-nostalgia-for-segregationist-senators
Edit to add:
Even Cory Booker
https://www.theroot.com/white-ass-joe-biden-claims-old-white-ass-segregationist-1835660611
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 3:22pm
Kirsten West Savali has the most negative take on Biden that I have seen
MLK was not the bland pacifist many would like to image. He was as critical of the white moderate as the white supremacist
https://www.essence.com/op-ed/joe-biden-james-o-eastland-mississippi/
Here a link with an interview with Eastland on Civil Rights if you can stomach it
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/joe-biden-james-eastland-mike-wallace-interview.html
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 3:59pm
Clyburn came our yesterday to support Biden on crime bill issue.
Was interesting to see that Breitbart picked up on that. Made me think: They love to stoke stuff like this just like Russian bots love to stoke stuff like this.
So theoretically, what if a congressional district elected someone sympathetic to black separatism? Should that person be shunned by all the other Congresspersons too? Wouldn't that be a sort of disenfranchisement of that district? You probably won't get this, but I am actually getting at the Ilhan Omar issue here. The more you can appeal to the nation at large rather than just your district, the more successful and powerful a politician you can become. If you just pander to one consituency, your own, they'll be happy with you and you may get re-elected, but that's all, the rest of the country doesn't think much of you. That's what happened with a lot of Jim Crow southern congresspersons. Still, they didn't get kicked out by their colleagues. If they followed congressional rules, their colleagues worked with them. That's representative democracy, they gotta make sausage with what the people send them. Meanwhile, where the whole country is at, the majority, that's a different thing.
This is why solving gerrymandering is a big part of any real change. It was partisan fiddling with the way things are supposed to work.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:33pm
P.S. Power: Clyburn's got it. Think about that, how did he get it.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:34pm
We are a divided nation. The rest of the country is not going to fall in line if their guys loses. McConnell set a goal of making Obama a one term President. A Supreme Court seat was stolen from Obama. You live in a bubble. It does not matter what Omar does, the Republicans will still be the same authoritarians as we see now. This is not both sides do it. The Republicans have staged a coup.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:38pm
So the Dem House Majority Whip lives in a bubble too?
You keep talking about being a loyal Dem, but you sure don't sound like one that often. Plus you don't always sound like you want to win anything, you like the victim thing too much.
And like the Russian bots and very like Trump, you seem to have a lot invested in making sure divisiveness continues, including trying to cherry pick news to fit the continuance of divisiveness which is you cherished narrative. You like it, you want it to continue, even if it scares you, that's the bubble I see you in. You never venture out of your cherry-picked news bubble for anything that disagrees with your vision of how things are. A textbook case of bias confirmation, and even beyond that, you tend to make strawmen of interlocutors if something they say doesn't fit your view of what's happening, it discombulates your picture and you've got to make them into something that fits into your bubble. And even beyond that, if you don't like the standard interpretations of what a leader meant, or what a best selling writer has said, you spend hours and hours seeking out an outlier revisionist who is saying what you think they meant.
The mystery is: why here? Who here at Dagblog are you trying to convince by doing this?
Most of the rest of us are just trying to figure out what's really going on. We aren't pushing a narrative like you are. Why do you think we would appreciate yours?
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:58pm
You realize that this is nonsense. If you actually read or listened to reports, you would know that there are divisions. Biden has a lead with black voters over 50. Blacks under thirty are still searching. I’m not in a bubble, I’m looking at polling. Maybe we can meditate on it.
Clyburn made comments. Cory Booker made comments. Booker is not apologizing and Biden backed down.
I operate based on reality. You operate on your opinion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/us/politics/black-voters-south-carolina-democrats-primary.html
Present data to show that the divisions cited above don’t exist.
You are blind to the continuing impacts of slavery and Jim Crow, labeling concerns pity olympics. You operate from a bubble. White Democrats are aware the past has on the present. You must have fallen asleep during the reparations argument and the reparations argument made by Julian Castro. I can’t take you seriously.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 4:54pm
Oh and: Is AOC in a bubble?
AOC: EXCITED TO WORK WITH TED CRUZ
Noticeable silence from you on that story.
I think she's a quick learner and ten times savvier than Ilhan Omar, who more and more just sounding very naive, even a little on the slow side, and not ready for primetime at all, only able to spout agitprop when it is fed to her, luckily she's got a mentor or two. AOC doesn't need one.
(Later edit to fix typo.)
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 10:28pm
I'd guess AOC might have mentors, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have agency and learns/observes fast.
Here she is waging social media war on concentration camps - the usual "that's not fair" objections surfaced quick, but yes, it's fair.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d0a3ec5e4b0e560b70c8e5e
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 6:16pm
Oh and hello: every country that has more than one political party is a divided country. That's the way this whole democracy thing works.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 5:18pm
Division is the norm. Netanyahu can’t form a government. Boris Johnson appears to be leading in England.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 1:33pm
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 3:53pm
And actually, Corey Booker came out on the other side of this:
Booker calls on Biden to apologize over remarks on segregationist senators
@ TheHil.com, June 19 01:30 PM EDT
Also I note that Heather Caygle tweeted other Black Caucus quotes agreeing with Biden from the Politico article written with Barron Lopez including this one with added note
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:13pm
Biden clearly not backing down. His spin on it definitely worth a listen even if you don't agree with it, very straightforward, confident, and dare I say it, presidential? Not a gaff, not off the record for rich donors, all very intentional
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 10:26pm
Biden’s black campaign chairman kept his mouth shut.
The fish fry is going to have a lot of fish to fry when the Presidential candidates show up.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:16pm
Long piece Clyburn agreeing with Biden on working with segregationists @ McClatchy:
Biden said he found common ground with segregationists. SC’s Clyburn said he did, too
BY EMMA DUMAIN JUNE 19, 2019 04:11 PM
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 4:20pm
Reminded bout the comment re ham and eggs: the chicken's got an interest, but the pig's committed.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/19/2019 - 6:09pm
oops moved comment downthread
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 1:02pm
Clyburn Fish Fry class photo--isn't that Bernie at the farthest right being the only cranky one? (gonna be a literal Party pooper again?)
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 12:51am
Histrionics, Hysteria and Joe Biden: Will the Democratic Party banish its democratic instincts?
Op-ed on topic by Bret Stephens @ NYTimes.com, June 21
Biden, again, chose his words poorly. But his broader point was right.
Washington Post Editorial, June 21
Biden is being Biden. That’s a risk.
Op-ed on topic by Eugene Robinson @ WashingtonPost.com, June 20
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 3:56am
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 4:06am
There was a large turnout at Clyburn’s fish fry. People are energized. There were even people supporting Yang at the event according to Joy Reid.The battle between Biden and Booker is important. We can have disagreements. At the end of the day, Democrats will be united. Biden now says no apologies are needed. Biden switched his position on the Hyde amendment. Biden shifts, his opponents remain steadfast. The Democratic debates begin Wednesday, Kamala Harris began the Presidential candidates’ presentations in S.C. today by presenting Trump’s rap sheet and how she would prosecute the case. The MSNBC pundits were impressed.
The campaign is Biden’s to lose. We will see how he does in the debates.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 10:51am
He's got the Bill Clinton thing
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 1:02pm
Nonsense. Every candidate makes decisions as to the best use of limited time. I'm sure none of the candidates that left earlier left because they were tired and needed to take a nap. Any discussion of Bidens, Sanders, or any other candidates age is more complex and nuanced than this.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/22/2019 - 1:41pm
Interesting that Mr. Feisty Fighter himself said this:
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 5:33am
Mr Feisty Fighter was always for fighting smart. He's not that different from Rick Wilson overall, except being a scrambling lawyer around tabloids & conglomerates puts you in a different world from journalist & political analyst.
Oh weight - Rick's even feistier today. Will we get a bunch of tsk tsk's on how uncivil and over-the-top he is, how he should do better at the Biden civility game? I dunno - I just like to see cussing when cussing's way overdue.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 7:39am
How Will Biden’s Latest Comments Affect His Standing In The Democratic Primary?
By Perry Bacon Jr. @ FiveThirtyEight.com, June 21
continues in depth... seems like he dug up and goes over every kinda poll he could find that could be applicable...
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 5:45am
Biden may remain viable because black voters think the country is too racist to support a Harris or Booker candidacy.
Edit to add:
Biden initially wanted Booker to apologize
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gy43kb/biden-somehow-wants-booker-to...
The deal Biden was working with the white supremacists was anti-busing legislation
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/05/joe-biden-busing-prob...
Biden has the over 50 black vote. Can he win over the others?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 1:51pm
Perhaps, but black voters are also more conservative than white democrats. They might like his centrist views more than the liberal black or white candidates. But it always comes down to racism with you. That always explains everything.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 1:50pm
Biden brought up white supremacists. Biden used the work “boy in his explanation. Biden said that Booker should apologize to him. Biden has about 35-40% of the black vote in South Carolina. That means that the majority of black voters are not in Biden’s camp right now.
Biden backed off the apology demand and Bidensplained what he really meant on Al Sharton’s show yesterday. This comes on the heels of Biden reversing himself on the Hyde amendment. Booker cooled things down.
There was a hearing in the House on reparations. Like many others, I see race involved at multiple levels. Health, education, income, housing, employment, voting rights, etc., all involve racial bias.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:03pm
There are 24 Dem candidates in the race. If Biden has a 35-40% *plurality* among SC blacks he's doing damn good.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:25pm
I get what you're saying. Blacks don't care much about policy. They would vote for a black candidate like Harris or Booker just because they're black. But they think America is too racist and since they don't care about policy they'll continue to support Biden. Racism explains everything.
I suppose it's racist of me to consider the possibility that 35 to 40% of blacks are conservative or centrist and they might like a centrist like Biden because they agree with his policy views.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:34pm
Amusing as always. Here is a paragraph taken from Perry Bacon’s 538 column
From the linked LA Times article in AA’s post
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-black-voter-pragmatism-helps-...
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:41pm
Or you can simply say, "until last election female and minorites in Congress were both less than 1/5, so odds greatly predict that anyone with experience and strong national cross-over will be a white male". With females hitting about 25% and minorities increasing and those in office getting more experience and visibility, this calculus may change a bit in say 8-10 years. Right now it's a bit of a trendy scramble, where some people will think Stacey Abrams as a realistic contender.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 3:19pm
You actually think the jackass that wrote that article has something to add to this discussion, amazing. Of course a candidate that gets no white votes is going to lose. If Harris and Booker get no white votes it makes one wonder how they won elections before. Are you really saying that blacks think America is so racist that Harris and Booker will get no white votes? As usual conversations with you get to stupid to continue very fast.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 3:20pm
I pointed you to a link provided in an article from 538. You hurl insults.You are simply a blowhard.
The author talked to potential black voters and recorded their statements. The author has something valuable to add to the discussion.
The House held a panel discussing reparations because people see institutional racism as a problem
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 7:13pm
their deep-seated belief “that America is still a very racist place and a very misogynistic place and that a candidate who doesn’t get any white votes is probably going to lose.”
I think that is a ridiculously stupid statement. You apparently think it's smart. I thought it was so stupid I didn't bother to read the article. You thought it was so insightful that you chose it to paste here over every other sentence in the article. Probably? You actually think that if a candidate gets no white votes it's only probable they'll lose. Clearly most of the votes that Harris and Booker got to win their senate seat were white. So how does this idea that a candidate who doesn’t get any white votes is probably going to lose apply to your arguments here?
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 7:44pm
You have a concrete thought process. The intended message is very clear.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 8:17pm
You do realize there are reasons beyond racism why Booker or Harris might not catch hold? (I'm not sold on Harris, partly cuz how she didn't pin Kavanaugh down in testimony, partly I just don't feel a compelling presidential vibe from her, or that people's touch or that her experience screams she's ready). Of course I've never been a Biden fan, but would hold my nose as needed.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 1:49pm
While I sympathize with the plight of underresourced black schools, putting kids of whatever color in buses up to 4 hours a day was never a terribly pretty solution. I typically balked at any commute over 30 minutes each way for myself or kids, and have been fortunate to find myself walking or biking half the time.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:01pm
Biden was supporting that position along with Eastland. Biden is running for President, so it becomes a factor in selecting the candidate.Biden suggests that he can work with McConnell. Working with Eastland on busing was easy, because Eastland agreed. That is what they were trying to get done with civility.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 2:29pm
And AOC approached Ted Cruz about areas where they agree - yes, that's hiw bipartisanship is done, find areas of common ground. Even with McConnell. (Isn't that how Nancy & Chuck ended the gov shutdown?)
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 3:09pm
In your view Biden working with a white supremacist on anti busing legislation is the same as Pelosi, Schumer, and Pelosi?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/joe-biden-james-eastland.html
I suppose you consider Diamond and Silk identical to other black pundits, and not a minstrel show?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 3:21pm
Realistically, Senate leader/Trump enabler/supreme court justice-stealer McConnell's probably done much more damage to minorities than Eastland could muster as a mere Senator (things that wouldn't have happened by other southerners anyway), especially in the later years that Biden knew him. But that's just PP getting all muddled up by reality.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 3:48pm
PP getting all muddled up by reality.
Reality: it's complicated, lots of gray shades, doesn't follow a nice neat black/white agitprop narrative.
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 4:08pm
Like is it worse what Biden did with Eastman or enabling Clarence Thomas?
https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/06/clarence-thomas-lights-match-to-...
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 4:27pm
You are making a good case against Biden. He screwed up the Anita Hill Case. He didn’t think that supporting the Hyde amendment would be a problem in 2019. Now he wanted an apology from Booker.
Working with Eastland on anti-busing legislation is not a small matter. Biden has appeal and name recognition with older black voters. He is now being evalated by young black voters. If he worked with white supremacists on anti-busing bills, why should young black voters trust Biden, now without the influence of Obama, to deal with McConnell.
Clyburn is Democratic leadership, like Pelosi. Neither person is going to openly criticize a Democratic candidate for president. It will be interesting to see if Biden just gave Booker a boost. Booker too tot high ground, saying that he was done with the issue, but also noting that we were aiming for the future not the good old days of both Eastland and Obama that Biden finds pleasant.
It does not seem that Biden paints himself in glory.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 6:54pm
Biden worked with Eastland on anti-busing legislation. How is that agitprop?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 06/23/2019 - 6:55pm