MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Don Jr.'s Russian collusion email
By Michael Wolraich on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:28am |And page 4, the most incriminating:
URL:
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413
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Comments
This enquiring mind wants to know: who is giving this stuff to the NYTimes? Anyone have any ideas?
Edit to add: it seems to be drip drip according to how the Trumps react. After the first leak, he puts out two answers, and the White House sends Kellyanne out to spin, etc. So then NYTimes comes up with these emails, forcing Jr. to counteract by releasing them himself....seems like a process...it's almost like the leaker wants to show how they don't think they were doing anything wrong?
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:45am
But Don Jr posted it all to Twitter. Does it matter who sent a copy to the NYT? As long as it matches what Don Jr posted, who cares. Could be Don himself to authenticate.
by Obey on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:44am
Oh I think it matters, we should eventually know who these enemies of Trump are. He released them ony because the Times called to say they were going to release them. Maybe they are not exactly enemies of Trump, we don't know yet.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:50am
Thanks to you and Wolraich. Things are happening too fast for me to follow. heh
by Obey on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 12:09pm
The content looks pretty damning. So conclusion (1) is that it is someone who wants to sink both Don Jr and Kushner.
Who else would have access to the email:
Bannon (removing his rivals, assuming he himself is clean)?
Ivanka (insert some contrived soap-opera motive here)?
Eric (the true Fredo of the family)?
personally I would love it if it turns out to be Melania.
by Obey on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 12:15pm
Or Comey spent some time at NYTimes bldg a few weeks ago...
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 2:09pm
Don't forget Manafort. Junior forwarded the original email chain to him as well as Kushner ... and he may very well be holding a grudge or two (as well as seeing an opportunity to help himself with his own investigations).
by barefooted on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 2:20pm
Especially after his former pals threw him under the bus at the first convenience......
by moat on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 2:23pm
Don published only when NYT revealed that they had the email chain. Someone leaked it before that. JM thinks it's someone in the White House who wants to undermine Don Jr. (and Kushner?)
by Michael Wolraich on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:49am
That's more like I was thinking, why the leaker is important.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:50am
Someone who wants to make Don Jr. the fall guy? Maybe even dad? (Now I am thinking like Louise Mensch, sorry
)
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:53am
Now we're in Louise Mensch territory - recordings months before as posted in the Wall Street Journal. She's a nut, but so's everyone else it seems. Too strange.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:58pm
It is Bannon
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 11:59am
Interesting that Marshall is thinking that it may be about legal jeopardy, he has had a good sixth sense about these office politics things in the past.
As attorney's fees can be ruinous, it could indeed be that these leakers just want to see a part of this over with, where they are no longer involved.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 12:16pm
Jeet Heer, who I find pretty sharp, says:
"If we're doing Kremlinology, then releasing this is a way for Trump Jr. to put the knife into Jared."
ETA:
Not sure what to think of Sexton's twitter meltdown about twitter stealing his scoop.
It is like he just discoverd how 21st century journalism should and should not be done. If the subject of your piece has hs own (social) media outlet, you don't need to give them "time to give feedback". Just get your piece out there and they will have all the time and space to make their comments without your edits. Newspapers are just another link on twitter/google/facebook.
Also it remains *his* story. He broke it, he is the reason why this story is dominating the news cycle, why it may be an important piece to the case that brings down a government. But here he is, a grown man, pissing tears about the email appearing on twitter rather than under his byline on an official NYT website.
by Obey on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 1:18pm
oh geez, there are no words. Except maybe: grow up, you look old enough to know life sucks and then you die. I'm embarrassed for him.
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 7:29pm
Idunno, I'm sympathetic - the reporting/analyzing/digging for leaks in the twitterverse has been leading MSM for a year now that I've seen, often ahead by a few weeks, sometimes 3-6 months on scoops, sometimes MSM directly stealing stories/credit with no attribution. It's hard, not very thankful work, often received as scorn about unprofessionalism and conspiracy theories and being unhinged, and this guy's efforts just got nullified by his subject of interest himself.
Seth Abramson's over tweeting about the Emin Agalarov Russian agent connection being ignored by MSM. Count the days before that name appears say on CNN or WaPo without attribution.
And then CNN:
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 8:32pm
Russian agents Emin Agalarov & father Aras - Plot hatched back in Moscow beauty pageant days - The Intercept
Trump team asked for meeting w Russian lawyer, not vice versa (she was Agalarov's lawyer) - Axios
Agalarovs in contact for years from Telegraph
All compiled nicely by Seth Abramson (50 tweets)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:35am
Just when you think things can't get crazier.....
It gets crazier than anyone could possibly imagine.
by tmccarthy0 on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 4:03pm
I thought it crazy 6 months ago - happy to have real evidence so people quit looking at me funny.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 5:35pm
Just show them this backgrounder on Rob Goldstone and they'll realize you were filtering out the wilder stuff and thinking way too seriously.. (Make sure you tell them that the "Playboy" label in the headline is little clueless about some things like sexual identity. A hetero playboy does not wear a hat that proudly proclaims the wearer is "Cunty") I wouldn't be surprised now if I found out that Honey Boo Boo is an involved Russian agent. All of this is starting to finally make sense to me. We are not dealing with rocket scientists, I am thinking now it's like this, not near as competent as Tony Soprano. Putin wanted to try to help Trump become president because he knows Trump and family are unsophisticated idiots. The smartest guys are probably the hackers, who would probably turn on Putin if the payoff was right.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:00am
"Honey Boo Boo = Russian agent" is just so last week - gotta keep up, now - get that ground game movin'...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:46am
For those who can't get enough of the lowbrow, CNN has an "exclusive" video of Trump, "Cunty"/Goldstone" and his clients the Agalarovs partying in 2013 round the Miss Universe pageant deal in groady Vegas hotel environs:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politics/video-trump-relationships-russian-associates/index.html
I betcha if you went to a Drudge Report time machine, it was covered, just got this inkling that Drudge and Cunty are the best of buds.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 10:11pm
Trump knows Russians?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 2:14am
He doesn't know them. :)
by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 11:08am
Right! Because though they once may have seemed super-classy, they are now losers*
*As defined from New York Magazine's Trump glossary, second definition
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 3:06pm
Just for fun:
from Gail Collins' July 13 column, A Donald Jr. Cheat Sheet, which also has a quite nice illustration from a Fox News appearance on Tues:
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 12:22am
To be fair, it's not easy to assess talent between 2 or 3 cultures (Russian, Azeri, English-based countries) - each has its own measure, and will frequently piss off the others more than rap and country fans piss off each other.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 2:29am
Hey-o Tmccarthy0...
I can hear the "crazy" weak excuses now...
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 1:46am
Michael Tracey, isn't he the guy "brutally assaulted" by Maxine Waters?
by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 11:10am
But..Donald Jr. said Mayor Khan is a bad guy and is in bigtime denial...!!!!!
Agent Orange and his spawn never denied anything ever.... just FAKE NEWS !!!!
by NCD on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 6:04pm
I sense sarcasm here. And that's fine and dandy. However, did you ever think that something else could be the case, that they really don't think they've done anything wrong. evah? This Trump biographer D-Antonio wrote a very intriguing op-ed for CNN in June early suggesting that that the denial thing might be genetic: Eric Trump shows that cluelessness runs in the family including that....The President has long practiced the art of throwing stones from glass skyscrapers....
by artappraiser on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 7:26pm
If they didn't know at some level that they've done something wrong they wouldn't be lying about and trying to hide the things they've done.
by ocean-kat on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 7:35pm
Did you ever think they have absolutely no moral compass and do not believe anything they ever did is wrong, including lying about it/blaming judges press etc. when the heat is on......and even when they lose in court as with Trump U?
The buck doesn't even slow down on Trump's desk.
by NCD on Tue, 07/11/2017 - 8:12pm
Confirming the understandably widely held view of my general lack of grasp I don't consider "opposition research" assisted by the Russians as being different from any other "opposition research" .It's a nasty practice, but seems to be as old as politics.I understand we have to do it otherwise we are unilaterally disarming which I do not recommend. There is too much at stake for me to argue that we should take the highroad from which we can look down and see the Republicans crossing the finish line.
But a crime?
When only certain foreigners are involved? Or all foreigners? Surely at least the Brits, Canadians and many others ("There's always something fishy about the french"-Noel Coward) have always chosen sides in our elections and provided information they hoped might tilt the balance.
Laws are laws and should be obeyed, But am I the only one who secretly wishes some Bolivian or Icelander had whispered some choice anti Trump gossip into Hillary's ear which she had used to win?
by Flavius on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 12:30am
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/07/blast-from-past.html
I'm so old I remember when Republicans went absolutely batshit insane over the notion that a foreign country had illegally funneled money into a presidential campaign. It was a huge scandal that landed some American citizens in major trouble for taking money from Chinese nationals and donating to President Clinton's campaign.
Here's how Bill Clinton handled it:
But look at the difference in the way the two presidents handled the scandal. Clinton asked for a thorough investigation and reiterated the view that it was unacceptable for foreign governments would try to influence elections. Trump calls the whole thing a witch hunt, fires the FBI director, smears everyone in sight and says that the whole thing is a partisan stunt to deny him legitimacy. And then he goes overseas and acts as though Vladimir Putin is the King of the world.
But then, in the end it was determined that Clinton wasn't guilty of anything more than unauthorized blowjobs,for which they impeached him under a stretched out definition of perjury and obstruction. Clearly, Trump doesn't have to worry about unauthorized blowjobs or conflicts of interest. He was elected even though he admitted to sexually assaulting numerous women. And he believes that there is no such thing as a presidential conflict of interest so that's off the table. You'd think he'd be confident enough to say what Clinton said. But he isn't.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:41am
"stretched out definition of perjury and obstruction" - bookmarked by the new wholly forgiving, skimpy exception-laden definitions of witness tampering, collusion, trading in stolen goods, treason, perjury, etc., etc.
Now all together, class: "BOTH SIDES DO IT!!!"
Feel better? I do. (retch)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:50am
Thanks. Clearly along with many other things I'd forgotten not only the law but the accepted practice. To some extent because of my conflicting memory of Kermit Roosevelt's heavy handed involvement in the Shah's overthrow of Mossadech.
by Flavius on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:12am
But a crime?
Yes. Unauthorized access to electronic data is criminalized by various statutes (see, eg. wire fraud and progeny).
The stolen information is as much stolen property as my bicycle and the person who knowingly receives either one is guilty of possession of stolen property, with such enhancements as might flow from the conspiracies that precede and follow the theft itself.
by jollyroger on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:13pm
I had a sense you would say this. I don't disagree. They are amoral. But they are all also looking increasingly very stupid to me. And surprising to me, I am also losing the idea that Putin is someone who has a lot of smarts. The whole shebang is starting to look like a farce. We have entered the other side of the TV screen and can't get back to reality.I am going back and looking at G-20 and G-7 and NATO meetings with new eyes, I think the rest of the world's leaders might be in shock and not know what to do having to deal with these two nuts whose only skill is populist manipulation. I am also reviewing how grownups who have accepted cabinet positions have acted. I think Trump admin. people like Mattis might be staying on and not quitting because they fear what might happen if they weren't there.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:19am
Not sure I see what you are seeing. Aren't things working out pretty much beautifully for Putin so far? If you're thinking that this will eventually come back to kick him in the ass, that looks pretty unlikely. He probably has a four year window to do what he wants to consolidate Russia's international position, and worrying about the possible geopolitical backlash that far out makes little sense.
by Obey on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:00am
A second thought: you're right about the stupidity of the Trump clan here. And I see in my own reaction a giddy glee at the sheer phenomenal idiocy of their actions. Someone online said the scandal was like House of Cards but with the Bluth family (from Arrested Development). The illegality is just color to set of the magnificence of the petty pea-brained moves and statements they keep making. It's like the stupidity is the crime.
I was thinking yesterday of a blog post I wanted to title the Genealogy of Morans. It would be about applying Nietzche's thoughts, about the emotional dynamics of political resentment in developing a new value set, to the current setting with the Trump base.
The general dynamic he highlights (leaving aside his own value judgments) is one where a humiliating sense of inferiority and inability to strike back at an oppressive elite leads to a "sour grapes" kind of change in values where the underclass sees itself as measuring up better. So where Nietzsche's underclass switched to turning meekness and poverty into virtues, the uneducated rural white Trumpists come to see Educated Temperate Smarts as a vice, a sign of evil, and venal impulsive stupidity as a virtue in itself.
The idea was to write it in the style of a Brooks editorial. But then he apparently beat me to it.
Alas, speed is king on the interwebs.
But, there is a tinge of truth to the idea that there is something gallingly duplicitous about our attachment to smarts above all, isn't there? There was a tendency to forgive the Bankers for looting the world economy in 2008 with no consequences, maybe because at least they looked relatively smart doing it, they "talk good". The real offense of these Trump is of course that they are undermining democracy. But what really gets our goat is that they are going about it in an insanely stupid manner. Oh, and their ties are in terribly poor taste.
Anyway, half-baked thoughts reflecting on my own reactions here. No offense intended against anyone else.
ETA: illustration #1
by Obey on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 5:13am
It's off the thread but I thought at the time , and still do, that Obama's 2009 treatment of the banks reflected his typically cool headed assessment that the priority had to be backing away from the situation he inherited: a precipice on the edge of a rerun of 1929. Everything else was excess baggage to be discarded - or a puppy dog to be thrown to the wolves.
by Flavius on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:37am
Yes, but was giving into say banker demands to keep their large bonuses and funneling $2 trillion untracked to Wall Street really required to do that? Wall Street of course said yes. Other grown ups still question the largesse. But largely nothing to do now, the stink's with us, rather than the chance for *some* major reform.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:50am
Yes, you are illustrating my point precisely. There was a carefully considered decision to leave criminals in charge of vital institutions because prosecuting them might jeopardize stability.
A decision to absolve Wall street, which they stuck to all the way through 2016, despite Wall Street being back to peak profits already in 2010. It is as absurd on its face as the present decision to absolve the Trumps. The latter decision revolts our sensibilities because these particular assholes eat their steak well done with ketchup and have poor spelling.
by Obey on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 10:07am
There is a "master of the universe" mythology that ascribes genius to the highest level of deal makers. It probably has to do with the enlightened despotism register that has shaped so many forms of values.
While I take your point that there is a pleasure at beholding the low brows and tastes of the Trumpkins, the "master" myth tells us that this demonstration of poor cognition means that the clan is actually less powerful than they appear. Something about the crime scene is telling me to curb such enthusiasm.
by moat on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 10:56am
Same here. But it is not that I think our impression of their weakness is wrong. It's more that there are precious few forces willing to oppose them. It is like Viktor Klemperer's remarks about 1933 in Germany, where he said he wasn't so much horrified by what Hitler and his people did, as he was by the sudden disappearance of any serious opposition to them, the Church and the moneyed establishment just stood aside. Not sure about how the institutions of Washington will hold up in comparison.
by Obey on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 11:33am
If you read Klemperer you might want to read the great correspondent Robert St. John's description of the consequences of an alliance of religion and fascism in Romania, 1940. The excerpt includes this:
And note that Evangelicals, Trump and Pence were photographed praying in the Oval Office today, likely to save their leader Trump from godless liberals.
by NCD on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 2:51pm
We pretend that Trump supporters can be brought back from their madness. Plans are created to win back their votes.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:05pm
Thanks for the tip, NCD!
by Obey on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 2:38am
I am doubting if bringing up manipulation of the psychology of the mob, which has been recognized and used by populists and totalitarians since the publication of Gustav LeBon's The Crowd in 1895 helps in our current situation. Precisely because: Trump and his supporters are using exactly the same argument against the 47% of the public supporting impeachment, calling the Russia inquiries the greatest "witch hunt" ever, suggesting that the liberal media are whipping the 47% up into a mob. You fear what you call the facist christian mob, and they fear the liberal media mob.
To me, the answer seems more likely in de-escalating the polarization and not constantly falling for calling each other out as under the influence of mob psychology. The more you attack "the other" as under the influence of a mob, the easier it becomes to seek solace in one. I think the most fruitful way in our current situation is to show support for members of what one sees as "the other" side when they show signs of thinking independently.
I.E., in our situation, support for GOP Senators when they question the Trump administration about certain things, or question the push through of the Senate's health care bill. On the flip side, you criticize when your own "side", like media sources, are going way over the line with conspiracy theorizing. In this way, the whole mob thing is de-escalated. Just support de-mobbing overall. Don't continually reinforce pushing people into the safety of belonging to a mob. Presuming all right wing Christians don't think alike and not calling all of them idiots might be a start. If they don't see you, as an independent, individual thinker calling them idiots on the internet, they might read something else you say and think independently on it. Surely they won't listen to a word you say if you dis their ability to understand an "other".
It does happen in this new day and age. The de-mobbing can work this way: many people are getting their news from Facebook. If a relative they trust but don't agree with politically posts a link from the New York Times, they might glance at it. They might not find the content objectionable but useful. Which makes them more prone to check out New York Times pieces in the future. And slowly the New York Times is no longer a part of the evil liberal mob to them.
Even if you don't agree with me, one thing is very clear: Trump has been using the mob psychology argument from day one. Using it against him and his supporters is not going to get you anywhere, it's only going to get you nods from the 47% who already agree with you.
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 11:56am
My Nietzsche comment was meant to chime with these sentiments. The focus on the smarts, or lack of, in its various forms, mostly serves to alienate the back seat kids who already feel alienated by the Democratic party despite being a natural constituency.
by Obey on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 12:29pm
I read it felt it on target, was kind of left speechless until I thought on the whole thing for a while
Edit to add: one thing I remember (far from everything) from that undergrad history of fascism course with the famous professor was that Nietzsche and LeBon go hand in hand....But then admitting my own stupidity: it was so very very long ago, I was 18 yrs. old, in way over my head, there were cool SDS guys with long hair challenging the prof all the time, and they were my he-roes. But LeBon hit me like a ton of bricks, including not idolizing those SDS guys and their weekly riots anymore, I still have the thumb-worn paperback version from that course easily at hand on the shelf.
by artappraiser on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 1:20pm
Ah, Nietzsche, good for any occasion.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 3:34pm
Of course, what one person calls "ressentiment," another might call "will to power." Thus do the Hitlers and Bannons of the world make Nietzsche their own.
by Michael Wolraich on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 5:59pm
What moat said!
And to moat: reporting that any master of the universe mythology I have fallen for in the past has been shattered. Maybe it's because of reading all of this stuff on topic, maybe it's just a matter of recognizing reality in my dotage, but I am finally cured.
There is one opposite thing I am starting to believe: many accomplished journalists are smarter and savvier than the pols they are covering, but they don't see it, that's the one thing they have to stay in denial about or they'd go crazy.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:03pm
One question that troubles me. Why did the Russians go through Goldstone and Trump Jr.? In just seems like a random, roundabout way to gain access when the campaign was full of people like Manafort, Page, and Flynn with deeper Russian connections.
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 11:08am
I'm probably underinformed once again, but are we sure that the Russian lawyer had some information to offer? Maybe she was just lobbying for the easing of sanctions. Could it just be Goldstone overselling her ability to provide info to the Trumps and overselling the Trumps' interest in talking about sanctions to her? And everyone then really did walk out of the meeting disappointed.
All the emails do show is that the Trumps were very open to collusion. And maybe the meeting did set off a sequence of events where the Russians began to understand just how open. Hence Trump's repeated mention of dirt on Hillary after this meeting.
by Obey on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 11:48am
It was a trial balloon. Goldstone's wording was far too contrived to be considered simply at face value - the intent was to make it so clearly and unmistakenly Russian government information being offered for the purpose of helping Trump and hurting Clinton (a Russian government lawyer, high level, sensitive information, etc.) that if the campaign bit it would be unambiguous. Actually having information wasn't important, the desire for it was.
by barefooted on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 12:14pm
I've seen all the many pundits suggesting it was a trial balloon, I don't really buy that. I think this is extent of the sophistication of Russia's spying. Read any related detailed story on Russian spies during the Obama years and what you see is: incompetence and rinky dink.
They've also got a sympathetic army of like smart Bulgarian hackers who currently enjoyhaving their backing, but they are rogues that could turn at any time. Similar to Anonymous or LulzSec Hence when Putin describes them as patriot volunteers or some such, he is just stretching the truth. His intel people probably don't have very good control over what they do.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:55pm
Rather than trial balloon, perhaps bait is more apt. I do agree that the West in general gives far too much credit to Putin - and most certainly to Trump. It's nothing new, though, the craftiest people only appear that way due to inadequate comparisons (Putin) and/or self-interested enablers (Trump). In this case, all the Russians needed to know was how gullible the Trump inner circle would be if presented with in-their-face foreign "bait", and how willing they'd be to swallow. What happened once they had their answer?
by barefooted on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:14pm
Maybe when you're testing the water it's best to start in the shallow end - besides, getting Trump's son involved early on as an easy dupe was the best possible inroad directly to Trump himself. Manafort, Page, and Flynn are expendable, but family hits home to Trump. And Goldstone? A schmuck who can follow directions.
by barefooted on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 12:22pm
Because both sides are incompetent. Including Putin's spies and most oligarchs. The Trump family and it's minions, and Putin and his minions rule by populist manipulation of media, that's what they are good at, the only thing they are really good at. They are idiots at actually running things, anything really. Including spying. It's all rinky dinky low level gangster shit whenever they do anything; I can think of no proof of any past competent Russian spies in the U.S.A. since Putin has been in power, everything I've ever read is the opposite, almost laughable.
Putin also has brute gangster force at his disposal and ensures continuation of the illusion that his regime is competent and in control of things via putting fear in any challenge. You've got the media and then the people, no one is able to challenge you.
The reason there are so many connections between Russians and the Trump family is merely that these people all hang in the same sleazy circle that people like say, Wall St. billionaires, will have nothing to do with. They are not in the same class as other billionaires, it's all strings and mirrors, it's all Tony Soprano world, they did not get to be billionaires via smarts about this or that market or business. They use bullying to get money and power and then they get the right "lawyers". Their tastes reflect them, things like Miss Universe pageants or Olympics pageants, professional wrestling, violent hockey, celebrity worship, professional models as arm candy, cheezy glitzy nightclubs, the Euro trash of the world, Mar A Lago type clubs where all you need is money and big cigars to become members, etc..
Basically we have two incompetent gangsters in charge of the two major world powers, that's what I am beginning to find scary. God bless and keep leaders like Angela Merkel, I'm serious about that, she must be extremely worried if not frightened.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:43pm
P.S. I also suspect now that we have had what could "deep state" rebellion against the Trump presidency since like week two. Our pros in intel did not like this gangster state of affairs. They are not politically motivated, it is about the incompetence. Comey is of course the best example, Trump instinctively knew that Comey did not respect Trump and was his enemy. The irony is most of them are probably not all they crack themselves up to be either. Look at what happened with 9/11, with Iraq, etc.
First clue to all of this should have been George Bush's reaction during the inauguration : “That was some weird shit.” That Mr. Heckuva Job Brownie thought so little of the Trump crew to say that says a lot.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:49pm
Underworld, right? America voted for the underworld, voted for the Sopranos. Of course these guys are pond scum. 50 years ago it was Nixon, who at least had some brains and pardon me, but *some* scruples. We progressed to Agnew? Okay, Agnew with a media sense, but still Agnew. And what happened to him? Nixon at least committed political crimes Agnew was just a loud mouthed petty crook. That's what we have now - not a clever guy, but an obvious guy who knows the beat cop is on the take so won't say anything.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:19pm
I think most who voted for him were voting for the Celebrity Apprentice guy who was also often on display in the campaign. Which means buying into meritocracy among other things. That is why the following story I just read belongs here. Voters can now see what Trump can do without the help of a producer in his Twitter feed (admittedly, some still like it, but most not). Here's the rest:
Clay Aiken says Trump didn’t make the decisions to fire people on ‘Celebrity Apprentice’
By Samantha Schmidt @ WashingtonPost.com, July 12
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 5:47pm
I have trouble putting Putin in the same doofus-class class as the Trumps. It takes talent to run an autocracy for 17 years. Trump could never have pulled it off.
Still, you could be right that Russian spies aren't nearly as smooth as they're made out to be.
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:39pm
Wolraich... Follow the bouncing storyline...
They previously had the ear of Junior unlike having the personal connections to Flynn, Kushner or Paul Manafort.
The first meeting 2013 for Junior in Moscow
Donald Trump Jr.
Rob Goldstone
Aras Agalarov
Emin Agalarov,
======
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 2:27am
Easier from Digby: it's Chaika:
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 2:27am
Peracles... Did you miss this from Digby?
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 6:07am
Uh, no, it's in the Digby story I linked to here. But Chaika is the most important new part.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 8:55am
Peracles... Oh...
I see. Well my comment were directed to Michael's particular interest stated in his comment.
======
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 7:55pm
There is a psychological description for this, way more accurate than simply "pot calling kettle black", I just can't think of it. Anyhow, this struck me as increasingly spot on every day, it is almost creepy how he predicted what he would do in his criticisms:
Trump Keeps Doing Things He Criticized Clinton For
Here’s a (nearly complete) list of everything the president has attacked others for—and then done himself.
Emilie PIesset and Emma Kerr @ The Daily Beast, 7.11.17 6:15 PM ET
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 5:29pm
I think you are thinking of "projection" where emotions that one cannot deal with are seen to be coming from other people. I don't know how much that relates to Trump who seems mostly busy with getting back at people by whatever object is close at hand.
by moat on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:09pm
yez, thank you
Edit to add: I've seen it with secretly relapsed alcholism, where they just hate certain other addicts most like them with a passion, are just disgusted, can't stand seeing their faults in others and are in denial about their faults, the hypocrisy can be very striking, but they don't see it.
by artappraiser on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:39pm
Puppet? No Puppet. You're the Puppet
by Michael Wolraich on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 10:50pm
I am befuddled? by these recent revelations?
And yet?
How long has this been going on?
I mean how can we best get our leader to oppress the ....
OH WHO CARES.
We have now elected the biggest idiot as Prez, even surpassing the Presidency of James Buchanan?
Because we have the dumbest voters?
We have a democracy (small d) and this is what we get!
And yet, this country is settled in issues regarding race and sexual identity and economics and lifestyle and....
OH WHO CARES?
Trump represents every goddamn thing I hate about this country:
We have a rich guy who never earned one goddamn thing in his entire life who sells wine and water and meat and....
And he tells us that:
Minorities are anathema to our creed.
Immigrants are responsible for all of our ills.
Good English represents elitism.
hahahahah
Debate is a tool of attorneys.
Scientists are elitists with concealed purposes.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
None of this is new, really.
I have no idea where Johnson reached the ideals of democracy in the 60's.
Let us give all citizens the right to vote, the right to marry, the right to retire in dignity, the right to...
Always, behind all the values attenuate to a decent nation....
We get a buffoon.
Except 'we' voted for this puke?
Because, underneath all of our aspirations was a racist, misogynists, classist core of idiots.
I am in a bad mood, but 150 years ago (plus) we lost 650,000 lives in a contest to decide whether or not all men are created equal and yet; here we are.
I'm done.
I really wonder if America exists any longer.
This is where I am right now and I know not how else to say it:
by Richard Day on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 8:07pm
As George Carlin observed:
You know how dumb the average American is....right? Well realize....half are even dumber than that!
by NCD on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 8:31pm
Thank you NCD!
ha
Basic arithmetic I guess.
hahahah
Everything seems to be something we already heard sometime?
Yet...
by Richard Day on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 8:54pm
Richard, you are befuddled because we are witnessing the ridiculous. Trump said that meetings with Russians never happens. Now he admits that he lied. There were meetings with Russians. Trump now says that the meetings were not illegal. He lies, but still gets support. There is no way to rationalize why a significant chunk of our fellow citizens are comfortable with anything Trump says.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 10:28pm
It's a defense strategy. For losers. "Circle the wagons." "Lock horns."
Won't last,
Usually followed by "Let's fire the manager " and then "Every man for himseff".
by Flavius on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 7:12am
Indeed. Except that call letter had already been sent - this was part reminder, as much to say the posse was on its way, start untying the girl from the tracks, start the bloviating on TV. Read the rest, though - it's getting clearer.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 6:04pm
& yet another Beatle. 6? 7? They keep popping up, these hidden geniuses behind the band. Agalarov seems to have penned Hey Jude at least. No wonder such a big room - instead of a 4 person 4-eyes-only, it's looking like the Moscow state marching band.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 6:26pm
8th Beatle, a translator appears. As Palmer Report noted, boardroom seats at least 20 people - strange to host just 4, but now it's filling up.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 11:38pm
Meanwhile, Akhmetshin (the ex-spy/cyber attack guy), was better known than thought, having a Trump Florida lobbyist married to campaign manager save his seat at an event just days later.
Nice to be hanging out w ex-spy:
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 11:44pm
We have to take your word, and that of an article at Huffpost, that the documentary is a "propaganda film". That is because Browder has been successful in preventing its showing to ay wide audience.
In 1995-2006 Hermitage Capital Management was one of the biggest foreign investors in Russia[9] and Browder has amassed a significant fortune through his management of the fund. For example, in 2006 he earned an estimated £125-150 million.[10] In 2007 he earned a further £125-£150 million.[11] [Average exchange rate in 2006 approximately $ 1.75 per Pound]
The documentary film maker, Andre Nekrasov, whose film Browder has prevented us from seeing, has a documented history of making films quite critical of Putin. He claims to have started tis film with one belief which changed based on the evidence he uncovered. I would like the opportunity to view the film and judge it for myself but it appears that a billionaire who is apparently indicted in the film was successful in his use of his money to influence the powers that be to ban its showing. [Maybe there is a source I did not find, if anyone has one please link to it] Have you seen it? One method to keep the film out of the public's eye is to use the threat of crippling law suits to intimidate any venue. We have seen this method used to affect for some time now. Do you justify it in this case? I any case?
My opinion, or at least my impression, of Doctorow based on reading him at various sites is that he tries to give fair analysis. I won't be surprised if someone finds something he has said that is fair grounds for criticism but if the whole truth could be known with confidence I would be extremely surprised to find that the story is as black and white as you and almost all media coverage that I have seen suggests. I believe that there is a lot of reporting in our country's MSM which is, whether consciously intended to be or not, de facto propaganda.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 12:01pm
Problematic job in situation like this, a translator with a security clearance and/or confidentiality agreements, I was wondering some things and it sort of quotes him on it at the end
“I’m a professional freelance interpreter and I can’t talk about any of my clients,” Samochornov told HuffPost. “I am bound by confidentiality agreements. You have to refer those questions to Mrs. Veselnitskaya.”
Later, in an email, he added, “This is my livelihood and I hope you can be sympathetic to the predicament I find myself in.”
I know for a fact that when someone like the D.O.J. or even a much lowlier judicial entity comes calling with subpoena's, confidentiality agreements between clients and professionals don't mean shit. Lawyer/client privilege is the only one that's safe from judge and jury or just a nosing around prosecutor with the right support. It can really sometimes suck for uninvolved freelance professionals: not just legal fees but unpaid hours and hours and hours dealing with someone else's troubles, they often want you to produce originals of everything for years, if you want copies, you better make them. Take your computer, give it back when they are damn ready. Throw on top in this case the media stalking.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 12:35am
I was already thrilled from the NDA don.t meand shit angle. At least in 2017 it's easier to raise money in the internet (except Dems are stingier). Yeo, his 15 mins/15 months of fame.
Let's hope he can give us a final unwavering list of who was at the meeting and doesn't fall dead of a "heart attack" or slip off a 24th floor terrace.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 2:56am
Drudge has headlined this A.P. story on Akhmetshin from this morning this way: RUSSIANS PASSED DNC DIRT DURING JR. MEET. AP titles it "Russian-American lobbyist joined Trump’s son’s meeting, too" but this is what the two reporters got in an interview:
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 12:23pm
Reminder: 1000 fake news sock puppets for Michigan alone, quite the army. Now we know how many trolls it takes to fill Saginaw. Turn me on, dead man. The Walrus was Jared. But as the old joke goes, Ivanka's handwriting. "I married Paul".
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 6:44pm
Smoking the good shit, I see. Carry on, then!
by jollyroger on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 2:18pm
I'd luv 2 turn u on. Kislyak is virtual Revolution #9th Beatle, or really flew in from Miami Beach BOAC? either way, back in the Trump SSR you won't know how lucky u r, boy.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 4:26pm
Kucinich: Trump Jr. meeting with Russian 'a bunch of nothing'
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 8:50pm
Meanwhile: ‘Lie after lie after lie’: Fox News’ Shepard Smith has a Cronkite moment on Russia
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 9:19pm
I've had a grudging soft spot for Smith ever since "We're Americans! We do not fucking torture!".I do think that he was spineless to let them make him take off the eyeliner, though.
by jollyroger on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 2:22pm
Nothing of value except thousands of Russian bots working hard, campaigning with fake new on every social media channel to get Trump elected, discredit Hillary through months of hacked emails slowly leaked through Wikileaks and MSM. Within 2-4 days of the meeting, the DNC had been hacked and all its oppo research released to the public.
Why is this so tough? Does Kucinich think Trump wanted pearls and perfume or a cash payout? Maybe no one understands what something of "value" means anymore.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 11:25pm
I am baffled by Kucinich these days, although I suppose that Fox paycheck covers a lot of cognitive dissonance for him.
by jollyroger on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 9:58am
It's the "it's unethical but everyone does this in poilitics" argument, surprised me too, that's why I posted it. The paycheck point: he was hired as the liberal pundit voice so I don't see him being pressured to say anything he doesn't want to say, just the opposite, that's what he's being paid to do.
If you ever felt him simpatico with your views, I see he's not any more: Kucinich rips Dems for proposal to examine Trump's mental fitness.
I went to his wikipedia page and I saw Kucinich also serves on the Ron Paul Institute Advisory Board.[10] I would guess that comes out of the anti-Iraq war thing. Made me think that his appeal at the time of running for president was anti-war uber alles, one trick pony. A lessen to all of us to investigate further instead of presuming when a candidate is agreeable on what one thinks is the one big issue at the time?
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 12:40pm
It doesn't seem to have occurred to Kucinich that Donald Jr. and Natalia might be lying about what happened at the meeting. The focus on a tangible bit of "dirt" on Clinton only sells the often repeated claims the she has done something mind-blowingly nefarious. The breathless National Enquirer quality of it all reminds me of the Flynn chants of: Lock Her Up.
I am wondering if somebody has gotten a subpoena we don't know about yet and Junior's performance is an attempt to get in front of it.
by moat on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 10:44am
I'm not sure why anyone cares what Dennis Kucinich says about anything. But I am the only one just finding out he is a Fox contributor? Jeebus, they must pay very well.
by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 11:04am
I vaguely remember seeing something about it at the time he joined, that he was hired to be the token liberal voice. Because it surprised me they were even having someone do that. Went to wikipedia to find out when: January 2013, as a "political analyst and regular contributor".Even though I can't stand to watch it, as Fox News is still a major factor in our political landscape, I like to try to pay attention to what people are hearing on it. So Kucinich is the one giving Fox News viewers the "liberal view"....it follows now, with this story, that one shouldn't be surprised to hear Fox News viewers say that even the left doesn't care about this Russia stuff.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 12:49pm
UFO's got Dennis long ago.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 3:24pm
Jonathan Chait points out why she deserves the title of Queen of Spin:
Kellyanne Conway Moves the Russian Collusion Goalposts to Undisclosed Location
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 3:17pm
In addition to the change of tune from when the issue started, Conway's comment ignores all the investigations that are underway. They will either produce "hard" evidence or not.
Looking back over the Trump team digging themselves deeper and deeper into their own litter box, it doesn't look like a strategy to get the issues behind them. All the statements and personnel decisions seem only designed to buy some time. It is as if they know (or think they know) about an upcoming event that will stop the investigation for them.
Gosh, that is not a happy thought.
Added Thought:
I just read a Josh Marshall article that considers the apparent lack of concern about the investigations that I refer to above: The Big Trumpers Still Don’t Get The Trouble They’re In
Josh makes a good argument that the carefree behavior is a product of the Trump circle's environment and upbringing. While those things must play a part, I am not convinced that his analysis covers the whole story.
by moat on Sat, 07/15/2017 - 10:36pm
I still want to keep an eye on the Greenwald fans on the left (once me) who dismissed all Russian collusion for so long, cheered the Wikileaks hacks/theft and drip drip drip, excused every Putin move in Ukraine & Syria, ignored murder of journalists and dissidents, etc. - have they started to shift, or still clinging to the illusion? It's easy to laugh at the right, but we've got our own problem children.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/17/2017 - 2:59am
Masha Gessen, July 12: Waking Up to the Trumpian World
by artappraiser on Sun, 07/16/2017 - 10:24pm
I don't think it a con - I think the folder a ruse - most of the promises were already in the works. How do we think Fix News works, waiting for a contract to spew lies? No, they just show intent and wherewithal, and the money flows one way and the lies flow the other. It's a whole well-supported industry for 2 decades, just added Russian flavors. This lawyer wasn't trying to nail all details in 1 meeting - it was to confirm the next stage of Hillary's-the-nominee-turn-on-the-spigots.
And yeah, I think there's something to the data servers in Trump Tower and Alfa and De Vos' insurance center - it's not 1992 anymore - operations to support 1000's of spam bots need a 2016-style cloud/data infrastructure behind. So the Russians brought their crypto-attack/infowars "ex"-spy guy along to validate the tech geek offering.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/17/2017 - 3:12am