Coming February 6, 2024 . . .
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Pre-order at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
Coming February 6, 2024 . . . MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Pre-order at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
“He was a man that gave up his country to fight for his state, which, 150 years ago, was more important than country. It was always loyalty to state first back in those days. Now it’s different today. But the lack of an ability to compromise led to the Civil War. And men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand.”
This was General John Kelly defending Robert E. Lee today on Laura Ingram’s radio show today. The response was to a question about Confederate statues. Kelly supports keeping the statues in place so we do not “erase” history. His response is the same “there ware good people on both sides” that we hear from the current White House. One side just thought it was a good idea to own people.
Kelly has not apologized to Representative Frederica S. Wilson for slandering her character. Today’s comments suggest that it is impossible for a man like Kelly to apologize to a woman of color. The Trump administration seems to be filled with white supremacists or their sympathizers.
Comments
The question for Kelly is why was the refusal to accept the expaof slavery a bad thing.
https://thedailybanter.com/2017/10/john-kelly-is-right-the-north-refused-to-compromise-with-the-abomination-of-slavery/
I wonder if Kelly can find the good people in Boko Haram
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 10/31/2017 - 11:16am
Kelly receives criticism from the Congressional Black Caucus
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-kelly-civil-war_us_59f8acbfe4b00c6145e1ee6d?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Ta-Nehisi Coates reminds of the 3/5ths Compromis, the Missouri Compromise, Kansas-Nebraska Act. There was also a proposal for the government to buy all the slaves and plan for freedom. The HuffPost notes that the Compromise of 1850 which allowed expansion of slavery into lands gained in the Mexican-American War. The Compromise of 1877 allowed Southerners to punish blacks after Union troops left. Kelly is unaware of all these compromises. He fits in well in a white supremacist White House.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ta-nehisi-coates-john-kelly_us_59f86880e4b0c0c8e67ca208?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 10/31/2017 - 3:41pm
Atlantic:
U S Grant on "the South"
Kelly is not a man with any knowledge, wisdom or leadership to offer this nation, which is badly in need of all those characteristics.
by NCD on Tue, 10/31/2017 - 3:51pm
You’d expect a military officer of Kelly’s rank to have these facts at hand.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 10/31/2017 - 4:01pm
Setting aside the question of whether Kelly is an apologist for slavery or not, his reference to an unwillingness to compromise as the cause of war is bizarre. One would be on better footing arguing the opposite.
The 3/5 ths rule of representation is the ultimate compromise. Having the right to get your slave back from a free state is pretty darn conciliatory. The South's agenda was not challenged until the expansion into new states brought the colonizers of those places into conflict with each other.
by moat on Tue, 10/31/2017 - 5:36pm
his reference to an unwillingness to compromise as the cause of war is bizarre. One would be on better footing arguing the opposite. .
Doesn't strike me as bizarre, only because: Is it not one of the main debates of all time: ye olde appeasement/Chamberlain thing?
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 1:18pm
It is true that all wars signal a moment where conversation stops and fighting begins. The example of the Chamberlain deal is a case of where one side had started fighting and the other had not realized it yet. I don't think that element rises to the status of a cause. It is also true that any moment of provocation can either be the beginning of conflict or not. What followed from the secession of the Southern States was not the unfolding of one inevitable narrative. Kelly's remark about compromise suggests that the conflict itself could have avoided if the opposing parties just gave peace a chance. Even my grandpa, who greatly admired Robert E Lee, would have hurt his knee laughing at the idea.
by moat on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 5:37pm
Yes, I agree in this instance that it doesn't apply well at all, but that said, I think it's a common argument rather than a bizarre and unusual one.
On another note, I see where this story has inspired all kinds of articles doing things like parsing of Ken Burns comments and analysis. So it must be a popular topic, and you know what? That's good; people reading up on details of the Civil War is a good thing right now.
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 5:59pm
I take your point that bizarre was not the right description.
I agree that it is good that many people are keen to understand the Civil War. My experience in this regard may not be the norm because it was discussed so much in my early years that I thought it had happened just before I was born.
by moat on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 6:11pm
When blacks heard Kelly call Robert E.Lee “an honorable man”, it was a WTF moment.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 8:13pm
Ken Burns reminds Kelly that slavery caused the Civil War.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ken-burns-john-kelly-civil-war_us_59f8d6cce4b0d1cf6e91124c?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/01/2017 - 8:13am
Kelly calls Lee honorable.
Lee owned slaves, broke up multiple slave families, and oversaw the beating of slaves.
Lee slaughtered his fellow citizens
Lee was not an honorable man.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/
40% of the military officers born in Virginia fought with the Union
https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Unionism_in_Virginia_During_the_Civil_War#start_entry
Robert E.Lee’s sister was pro-Union
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/robert-e-lees-brothers-and-sisters.96315/
Edit to add:
Lee’s army kidnapped and enslaved free blacks
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/08/we-have-received-provocation-enough/61276/
Lee did want want freedmen offered jobs and wished that freedmen could be banned from Virginia
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/should-the-lee-windows-at-the-national-cathedral-be-removed/2017/04/28/05af59a0-2381-11e7-bb9d-8cd6118e1409_story.html?utm_term=.b23a7690c5e7
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/02/2017 - 12:10pm