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McCain Claims Wallow Fire Started by 'Illegal Immigrants'
By we are stardust on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 11:51am |He gave a press conference after toring the Wallow Fire neat Springerville. It has burned over 550,000 acres in extreme winds and dry conditions.
"A U.S. Forest Service official said on Sunday there is no evidence that illegal immigrants started some of the wildfires in Arizona, as Sen. John McCain has claimed.
Tom Berglund, spokesman for the federal group managing the Wallow fire that McCain toured on Saturday, said the cause of the fire has been determined as "human," specifically an "escaped campfire," meaning the campfire sparked beyond the confines of the rocks containing it."
(Inciweb is busy; might bring the links later.)
Didn't he used to be sane about immigration reform?
URL:
http://abcnewsradioonline.com/national-news/mccains-claim-that-illegal-immigrants-started-wildfires-disp.html
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Comments
McCain is nuts. It does seem the Forest Service made a big mistake opening the woods to camp fires one week before the huge Wallow fire:
Illegal immigrants don't go up into the mountains to camp out, they go to the cities to work.
It seems the Forest Service official (likely a fool or someone lacking experience) who opened the woods to camp fires did not realize how easy it is to for irresponsible campers to improperly set and then fail to extinguish campfires, and how dangerous a wild fire would be once started in current dry conditions.
This is the apparent Forest Service opening on camp fires in the White Mountains, where the Wallow fire started, from May, 2011:
by NCD on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 2:06pm
Illegals who can't find a job in the desert most surely go into the mountains.
illegals arent stupid, they go to the mountains to escape the heat. They drive their trucks to town for work and then go into the mountains to save on utilites.
They may have been cultivating gardens for all you know. Maybe even poaching?
As for the closing of the forest
"Valerie Meyers, a National Weather Service meteorologist, said 1 ½ inches of snowfall was recorded in Flagstaff on May 18, a week and a half before the Memorial Day weekend"..."Although totals for the White Mountains were unavailable, Meyers said that the same low-pressure system produced similar snowfall along the eastern end of the Mogollon Rim......."It was out of the ordinary," Meyers said, adding that officials in several of Arizona's national forests questioned whether the fire restrictions were necessary after the snowfall......"There were two or three events where they had a dusting of snow or even reported measurable snow," she added.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/06/11/20110611wallow-fire-memorial-day-weekend-restrictions.html#ixzz1Pr7kEspJ
Hind sight is always better?
by Resistance on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 5:58pm
Resistance you can always be counted on to dump on illegals.
As to the snow in Flagstaff, Flagstaff isn't where the fire is, it isn't even in the same National Forest.
The fire is in the Apache-Sitgreaves, Flagstaff is in the Coconino National Forest.
Not only are you a bigot, you are a uninformed loudmouth of a bigot.
If you call criticizing lifting camp fire restrictions a week before the biggest camp fire caused fire in Arizona history 'hindsight', I think you're either an idiot or nuts, forecasting fire danger is what forest managers are paid to do, and they are supposed to be experts at it.
by NCD on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 6:34pm
This one is for Wisconsin, and there are likely more geneeral ones online, but there are pretty specific indices for calculating fire danger; a lot of it has to do with the amount of moisture in various fuels, which are rated by hour many hours they burn if they get started...I forget a lot of it, but the fuels are maybe an hour at the short end, and a thousand at the top. Anyway, it's as close to science as they can arguably make it.
Controlled burns are a whole 'nother category, and some get away from them if some wind comes up they aren't prepared for; but nature doesn't always behave predictably. I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions.
And it does seem McCain and Resistance share some issues about undocumented aliens. ;o)
by we are stardust on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 6:58pm
Just as you and I share many things on how to help the American workers have control over their rights.
I am able to think more clearly on the best way to serve that cause, IMHO
Ps. I am glad I am on your side on many issues.
By the way, hows your son faring these days I hope he's doing well?
by Resistance on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 9:09pm
He is, thank you for asking, Resistance. He's been on the Duckett Fire near the Royal Gorge west of Pueblo, CO. Another extreme weather fire; they've been alternating nights and days digging line. They are finally gaining on the fire, and hope to be de-mobed soon from exhaustion.
Fire, IMO, is a live being, can create its own wind and weather, including lightning if the smoke clouds are large eough. This and the Wallow have had such high winds most of the time that they can't provide air support; gaaah.
Yes on agreeing on many things; no on the jobs are zero sum. It's a fallacy that pits humans against each other, whether by race, immigration status, union or non-union. As The Boss says:nobody wins unless everybody wins, A good moral credo to try and stretch toward, IMO.
by we are stardust on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 9:50pm
Zero Sum ? You've used the term Zero Sum before, please explain so I can understand your perspective
Maybe you could start a conversation on this topic?
Economics
Many economic situations are not zero-sum, since valuable goods and services can be created, destroyed, or badly allocated, and any of these will create a net gain or loss. Assuming the counterparties are acting rationally with symmetric information, any commercial exchange is a non-zero-sum activity, because each party must consider the goods it is receiving as being at least fractionally more valuable than the goods it is delivering. Economic exchanges must benefit both parties enough above the zero-sum such that each party can overcome its transaction costs.
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero%E2%80%93sum_game
by Resistance on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 10:51pm
It’s obvious you are unable to read with comprehension.
From the above post, reread the quote I gave
The same = the same low pressure that brought snow to the area that is burning also affected Flagstaff IT PRODUCED SIMILAR SNOWFALL IN BOTH REGIONS.
Flagstaff isn’t in the White Mountains, either is it in the eastern end of the Mogollon Rim
But I didn't need her account of events, I SAW the snow around the area a week before and it looked wet.to me.
I suppose I'll have to explain to you the above statement? Snow is wet. and wet wood takes a little longer to burn. So why do you second guess the experts who know these simple facts?
I suspect you didn’t read the entire article, before your limited knowledge only allowed you to open mouth and insert foot. May I suggest you shove it…. real close to your eyes and read it slower so you can comprehend the words and their meaning.
by Resistance on Mon, 06/20/2011 - 8:57pm