Ramona's picture

    Why aren't these two women in jail?

    In a righteous world, someone in control would watch this video and then use it as evidence in a courtroom.  Instead, because the victim is a child and the perpetrator is her mother and they're participants in a reality show, it is aired as a part of a segment and nothing happens.

    It was posted on Huffington Post early yesterday but I just got it in my email a few minutes ago.  I haven't seen it talked about anywhere else.  That's why I'm posting it here.  If this isn't the most abusive kind of torture, I don't know what is.  If you think I'm overreacting, please tell me why.




    And what was wrong with the goddam cameraperson?  Do you stand by and film the abuse of a child and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done?   When will this END?

    I think about the camera and the person holding it.

    The least he could have done was yell STOP IT!!

    Not to mention TLC--you know, The Learning Channel.  (No wonder they don't use their full name anymore.)

    this show is so outrageous to me I can't even put it in words.

    Those mothers are trying to win contest that they themselves couldn't win when they were young.

    Those kids have no stability of any kind. They have no friends. What they call friends is other participants. They have no reasonable childhood. All is about how they look all the time. Is a complete brainwash. I bet 95% of the viewers on this show are pedophiles. I can only imagine that after they watch this show they will be encourage to go and abuse another child as soon as possible.



    Torture? Sure, one many adult women put ourselves through all the time. For a kid, I hope it's unlike any pain they've ever felt. For a woman? Meh. Adding to the actual pain is that the diva/drama-queen path the parents have put these girls on will inspire an even more serious reaction. The disgusting part is there is NO reason a child should have to endure this. Then again, I feel the same about child pageants on the whole. Shame on pageant parents.Let her be a child and wait until she can decide whether or not to torture herself in such a way. She may decide to be spanked as an adult as well. Aren't parents supposed to shield children from such pain as long as they can?

    "I hope it's unlike any pain they've ever felt." --- To be clear, what I meant was I can only hope she's never felt anything worse, although I'm pretty sure she has, at least emotionally. 

    I thought after the Jon-Benet Ramsey tragedy we would finally see an end to this beauty pageant/child exploitation nonsense.  Instead, the fad has grown to unbelievable proportions. It's as if the publicity was an eye-opener to every monster mother out there.  They could groom their daughters to be the little beauties they never were. 

    One mother on that site said she has spent $60,000 to $70,000 in costumes, fees, travel, etc.  She laughingly said she had spent enough to feed every kid in Botswana (or somewhere equally full of starving kids.).   They're hopeless.

    OKAY! WHY THE HELL IS THIS CHILD GETTING HER BROWS WAXED IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!?!?! I am 45yrs old and have only done this procedure 3 times in a span of 15yrs. Why? Because it HURTS LIKE HELL!! Granted everyone has different pain thresholds, but ripping hair from any part of your body hurts and a child this young has very tender skin and fine hairs and to use this method of hair removal is just flat out CHILD ABUSE!! Beside the kid doesn't even have enough hair to wax...it's not like she had a uni-brow. And we wonder why our young girls grow up and become superficial, unrealistic, self absorbed, gold digging BIOTCHES!

    Looks like her mother might have decided she had a unibrow.  Is that blood between the little girl's brows?  I really can't watch it again to find out.

    (Yes, it does hurt like hell.  I've only had it done once, and that was enough.  O vanity, damn, that stings!)

    "normally, I would have just held her down and ripped it off."

    Funny.  That mom doesn't look Chinese.


    Let's get a grip. Children's beauty pageants are abhorrent, but what we see in this video doesn't rise to the level of child abuse. In a "righteous world" we would hope for better parenting, but we wouldn't want to criminalize this kind of parental behavior. 

    Remember the McMartins. Please. We don't need to encourage "someone in control" to find one more reason to throw people in jail. There's enough of that going on already.

    The video and these "beauty" pagents only highlights the dominant cultural paradigm concerning gender haven't changed much in the past hundred years, in spite of whatever advances we have made.  In the end this just an example of parents living vicariously through their children, imposing their values on what is important.  This is no different than the parent who forces his or her son or daughter to participate in competitive sports, which often result in physical injury.  As with a lot of these pagent contestants, the kids carted off with a broken leg or concussion will say they wanted to participate in the game.  Growing up in the culture that they and we do, did they really have a choice?  Are the parents somehow to blame for just playing their role?

    Good insight, Another Trope. If we go down this road, will we be throwing parents in jail for forcing their pre-schoolers to practice the piano and learn Mandarin, when they'd rather be watching PowerPuff Girls?

    Life does present us with many fine lines and slippery slopes.  Of course, we have everyone defining different lines and different slopes which need to be considered.

    I don't see a slippery slope here, Trope.  I see a child being tortured (yes, tortured in my eyes) as a camera zooms in tight in order to capture every second of this five-year-old's agony.  I see a mother who has allowed this to happen before, has seen the child's skin tearing because of it, and yet not only allows it again but does it for the cameras in order to be on a TV show.

    I see a child howling in fear, looking around for someone to rescue her and seeing that nobody in that room is going to do it.  This is not a scene where a child is getting a shot in order to stay well--a scene every parent dreads but knows is necessary.  This is a child being held down in order to have a needless, painful procedure done to her so that viewers can either be entertained or appalled, but will watch and thus bring in those advertising dollars..

    (I wrote a longer comment but it was lost again.  I'll never learn to save it to Word or something before I hit that button.)


    [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
    the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
    a method of inflicting such pain.
    Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
    extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
    a cause of severe pain or anguish.

    I find this mother dispicable.  In my little world where I am king, her child would be taken from her and given to someone who provide real loving support. 

    But just going off the phrases you offerred in bold.  My father, who I no doubt loved me, choose at times to give the punishment of a spanking from time to time.  I have a number of distinct memories of reactions on par with or in excess of that little girls after such incidents of "punishments."  Was my father torturing me?  Should the authorities have stepped in?  Some would say yes to these question.  Others not. 

    So should we speak out against this sort thing? Yes.  Should we collectively frown upon these kind of beauty pagents and what they stand for? Yes.  But if we are to take this discourse about whether the mother being put in jail for this seriously, this I have to say this kind of talk is moving along a slippery slope.

    The goal should be getting to a point where a some individual doesn't believe such actions against a child are necessary .  Because in the end, it is about people's decisions about what is necessary for the child.  And that is where the slippery slope begins.  Are parents who support their childreen through "pain and sacrifice" necessary to be gymnasts or figure skaters being abusive?  As long as society "approves" of beauty pagents regardless of the age, this kind of behavior will exist in the gray area.

    Does practicing piano or learning Mandarin have associated physical trauma that I am unaware of?

    In short. Even if we go down "this road", the answer is "no". The road does not lead to the absurd result you propose.

    Obviously you've never banged your head on the keys of a piano after being asked to practice whole notes and half notes focusing solely on middle C! (This is, in fact, one of childhood memories. Why, yes, I was a spoiled brat. Why do you ask?)

    I have such childhood memories myself. (Revenge: trumpet!!!!!).

    Well, stage moms are as old as dirt.  And parents seem to go really nuts over kid sports as well.  This doesn't rise to the level of jailable offense to me but jail isn't the answer here.  This woman needs a good shunning.


    More than that, I think TLC needs a good shunning. WTF is this crap?

    (and also too, I wouldn't be opposed to cosmetologists losing their license if they perform certain cosmetic procedures on inappropriately-aged children).

    In one of my moments of channel surfing I stumbled on an episode of Real Wifes of the OC.  In this particular espisode one of those mothers had a teen daughter who wanted to have plastic surgery.  The mother was all for it.  She appeared proud her daughter wanted to alter her looks.  The daughter had a twin sister who was the voice of reason and wisdom, who appeared disgusted by the superficiality of both her sister and her mother.  Of course, because the mother was willing to sign off on the procedure, the cosmetologists had no problem signing off on any procedure the teen wanted.

    TLC should be shunned.  But on some level, it is reality shows like this that reminds us this stuff is going out there.  If one had created a fictional show call Jersey Shores, people would argue that the characters are over the top and don't reflect reality.  Our national problem is that the people on shows like Jersey Shores and Real Wives of the OC are part of our nation.

    Agree about the cosemetics license.  There are all sorts of regulations about piercings and tattoos, why not some regs here?

    And yes, TLC sucks.

    You can bring this to people's attention and more power to you for doing so, but, scanning the responses here, it seems clear that if you want to curry more than opinions on the matter, you have to figure out what legislation bears on parental and child rights, then encourage people to lobby for change and redress.  Otherwise your outrage, and that of others, is a flash in the pan.  Take the current situation in Tucson after the shootings.  I'm outraged that the Tea Party can get away with the things they say, then shift the blame, as always, to Democrats.  Get mad as you want, it won't make a difference.  What has to change are Gun Laws and renewed regulation of radio (restoring control of the airwaves to public use by reinstating the Fairness Doctrine).  Those are things people can demand from their government.  I don't know what laws exist to protect the rights of a child like this, but I'm sure they exist.  Find out what they are and inform others.

    Child abuse and neglect are defined by Federal and State laws. The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) provides minimum standards that States must incorporate in their statutory definitions of child abuse and neglect. The CAPTA definition of "child abuse and neglect," at a minimum, refers to:

    • "Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse, or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm"1

    Physical Abuse

    Physical abuse is generally defined as "any nonaccidental physical injury to the child" and can include striking, kicking, burning, or biting the child, or any action that results in a physical impairment of the child. In approximately 38 States and American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, the definition of abuse also includes acts or circumstances that threaten the child with harm or create a substantial risk of harm to the child's health or welfare.5

    Emotional Abuse

    Almost all States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands include emotional maltreatment as part of their definitions of abuse or neglect.9 Approximately 32 States, the District of Columbia, the Northern Mariana Islands, and Puerto Rico provide specific definitions of emotional abuse or mental injury to a child.10 Typical language used in these definitions is "injury to the psychological capacity or emotional stability of the child as evidenced by an observable or substantial change in behavior, emotional response, or cognition," or as evidenced by "anxiety, depression, withdrawal, or aggressive behavior."


    There are guidelines for anyone to read, and I encourage anyone to read them.  But if I happened to be in that beauty shop when that child was being forced to have her eyebrows waxed I would hate myself if I didn't try to intervene.  I'm still horrified by it.  I still think there should be laws on the books against what happened to that little girl.  And if the above doesn't fit, then we need to re-write the laws in order to protect children fully.  My opinion

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