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Obama Takes Command, With a Little Help From His Friends. (Told You So.)

This space has recently opined that Mitt Romney's selection of Paul Ryan likely put the Presidential election out of reach, and also that President Obama would take a modest lead after the Democratic convention, as uncommitted voters would be swayed by President Clinton in a way they were not by the Marathon Man.  Check, and check.  The Democratic convention, even Scott Rasmussen has been forced to admit, has resulted in a substantial Obama bounce, placing the President ahead, outside the margin of error.  This column is about why the election is nearly over, and what that means.

As I have been saying for more than a year, this election keeps serving as a replay of the 2004 Bush-Kerry contest.  As has long been evident, you have an incumbent President in wartime campaigning into substantial headwinds of dissatisfaction, faced with a patrician opponent from Massachusetts with a striking jawline and hair who is known for taking a variety of inconsistent positions.  In both cases, an aroused partisan base in the out-party has enthusiastically embraced their somewhat flawed challenger, while the incumbent has focused in like a laser on Ohio, the risks in switching horses, and the bond of trust that comes with incumbency.  In both races, there were very few uncommitted voters.  And now the race has continued to parallel 2004 in result (thus far), as the challenger’s sometime lead (Kerry actually led Bush more consistently than Romney led Obama, but Romney did lead at times) has evaporated, as the conventions are a pivotal moment at which a grumbly electorate has moved back to the option it knows and trusts modestly more.  President Bush never trailed John Kerry after making the convention pitch that even if you disagree with him on issues, you know who he is and what he stands for.  President Obama will never trail Mitt Romney after he ran last week with the Big Dog, while Mitt, who has a more ambivalent relationship with our canine friends, was forced to sit on the porch.

Aside from drawing parallels, the election is nearly over because it is more demographically determined than past elections were.  Demography increasingly trumps everything.  The Democratic Party is more the coalition of African-Americans, Latinos, LGBT voters, and white liberals.  The Republican Party is a contrastingly more homogenous construct that is predominantly male, predominantly religious, and very white.  The increasing demographic determination of voting (illustrated by Nate Silver’s breakdown of how 2008 portended a shift toward Democratic Presidential voting among nonwhites, but not really among white voters) has made this election one that resists economic cyclicality.  While President Obama’s approval rating among black and white voters alike fell from mid-2008 to mid-2012, it actually went up among Latino voters.  President Obama’s likely vote share among Latinos remains at roughly two-thirds, right where it was in the near-landslide of 2008.  Despite a modest decline in his approval ratings, President Obama’s likely vote-share among African-Americans remains in the middle-to-upper 90s, far above the roughly 90% of the black vote won by candidates Mondale, Clinton, and Gore.

This is the secret of Obama’s enduring lead:  the white vote is elastic, but only so elastic.  Obama’s overdrive among African-American voters, who are numerous in swing states (Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida), and potential swing states (Pennsylvania, Wisconsin), backed by his benefiting from the increasing alignment of Latino voters (and I would expect, LGBT-identified voters), means he can win with 39% or so of the white vote.  It also means that it is almost impossible for Mitt Romney to win the popular vote by any meaningful margin.  There just aren’t enough white votes for him to open up any kind of margin, which makes the selection of Ryan all the more tactically unsound.  Senator Marco Rubio could have helped Romney bring the Latino vote closer to George W. Bush’s 43% share in 2004.  Senator Kelly Ayotte could have helped Romney improve among all racial groups (including white voters) because more than half of all such voters are female.  Picking a white male who appeals to his base was akin to running the ball on 3rd and nine.  Post Charlotte, Romney is now 4th and seven (although Ryan claims to have gained twelve pounds on the carry).

A further reason the election is nearly over is the way in which the Obama campaign’s 2008 and 2012 databasing, get out the vote operation and grass-roots strength has modified the nature of the Presidential contest in Ohio, Virginia, and Florida.  To see why that is true, let us first assume that there is a significant enthusiasm gap separating the more energized Republican base from the moderately less energized Democratic base (an assumption that is doubtless less valid after Charlotte, but stay with me on this).  That assumption was epitomized by the Washington Post poll immediately following the Republican National Convention in Tampa, which showed President Obama leading 49-42 among registered voters, but Mitt Romney leading 47-46 among likely voters.

But now consider that Nate Silver models the national popular vote as 51.5% for President Obama and 47.4% for Romney, while modeling Ohio at 51.0-47.5 (only .6% more favorable for Romney), Virginia at 51.7-48.3 (only .7% more favorable for Romney), and Florida at 50.7-48.5 (only 1.9% more favorable for Romney).  Those results represent an electorate in those states that has been turned bluer during two cycles of intense GOTV databasing and spadework.  Consider that in 2000, Ohio ran four points stronger for President Bush than his national vote share (+3.5% compared to his -.5% showing nationally).  And while John Kerry managed to lose Ohio by .3% less than his national loss (2.1% in relation to 2.4% nationally), President Obama won it by 4.6%, which was 2.7% less than his performance.  Thus, Democrats have tended to underperform in Ohio, with the average of the last three elections being a 2.1% underperformance – yet this year, polls suggest a .7% underperformance only.  Florida was -2.6% (2004) and -4.5% (2008) against the national trend in the last two elections for Democrats.  Virginia was -5.8% (2004) and -1.0% (2008) against the national trend in those cycles.

The Obama campaign worked these critical states hard in 2008 when the GOP did not; and with a great number of offices in all three, and early voting in Ohio and Florida, it is simply easier for the Obama campaign to nudge the electorate that votes in Ohio and Florida modestly toward resemblance to the universe of registered voters, in which Obama leads handily, as opposed to purely resembling the universe of likely voters, in which Romney briefly pulled even last week.  Given that Romney probably needs all three to win, President Obama’s continued strength in them, plus his bending the arc of vote-share differential last time out and apparently this time gives him an electoral college advantage.

Yet the biggest reason last week that President Obama moved ahead by a modest but apparently decisive margin was the speech made by the last Democrat before him to win either of Ohio or Florida – Secretary of State Clinton’s husband, Bill.  The center is shrinking but available to persuasion in a down economy, and putting Medicare-cutting Paul Ryan forward, and doubling-down on the lie that President Obama eviscerated the Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform was just too easy.  President Clinton easily rebutted that falsehood, in a way that will carry through the fall.  He also spoke to those persuadable voters in a way the GOP convention did not really attempt, from Chris Christie’s stern anger to Clint yelling at the chair, and in a way Paul Ryan could not as an iconic movement conservative.  The speeches in Tampa were notable for their relative absence of references to Mitt Romney – but they were more subtly notable for their lack of any GOP counterpart to Bill Clinton, as speakers also avoided mentioning the polarizing presidency of George W. Bush.  (Remember Jeb Bush saying, “stop blaming your predecessor,” as if Jeb wasn’t clear that his brother was that President, or at least that he didn’t want to say "President Bush"?)  The GOP bench lacks figures of stature, and increasingly lacks figures of statute in the eyes of the vaunted center.

Following President Clinton’s home run, President Obama’s own speech was a good one, but it was a speech to get you there.  As many have noted, it listed accomplishments, acknowledged difficulty, and was more workmanlike in tone than the lofty rhetoric of 2008 – of necessity.  A President in 2012 cannot soar, because we are not soaring.  The speech needed to attack, defend, and move the ball down the field in small chunks.  Being Obama, it either inspired you, you hated it and him, or you agreed with its goals generally.  The reason it worked is because it was the capstone of a convention of others – Julian Castro, Lilly Ledbetter, Deval Patrick, Michelle Obama, and Bill Clinton.  They formed a team that was so strong in message and voice, by example and word calling Democrats to enthusiastic support of the President, that his defense of his record and call to finish a difficult job was worth a five point lead in today’s Gallup poll.

The last two weeks have formed the contrasts between the two major parties and their candidates well.  The Republicans were far more homogenous, and played more fully to their base.  The Democrats were a more demographically heterogenous group, and played well to the center through the speeches of Michelle Obama, Bill Clinton, and judging from his approval rising to May 2011 levels, President Obama himself.  The Republican convention, because it played to the base so exclusively, yielded no bounce.  The Democratic convention, with figures who have more appeal to the center, got a nice bounce.

What is becoming very clear is that the Republican Party simply has a far harder boundary at the 47% level in American politics than does the Democratic Party, and a far more difficult path to 50%.  In 58 days, we will be considering what it means that the Democratic Party will have won five of six Presidential popular votes, and won in a bad economy this time.  If President Obama presides over an economic recovery, the Democratic Party will likely have two widely beloved and personally admired two-term Presidents, opening a stature gap and a momentum gap against a party relying on a base that grows smaller demographically with each successive election.  President Obama last week stood more than he did in 2008 on the shoulders of friends.  In his lead and likely victory we see the seeds of an ascendant coalition, to which the party of Christie, Rubio, and Ryan has no long-term answer.

I know that after reading your (very fine) blog, I should be giddy with glee and relieved that Obama is going to win.  But, instead it only served to make me more uneasy and suddenly I’m hearing the words, 'Caution, fasten your seat belts, hazardous road ahead'.  (Even weirder is it's Al Green's voice!?!)

While I trust and hold Mr. Silver in the highest esteem, I'm still more than a bit cautious about popping that champagne cork just yet.

I've been reading reports about all the overt and covert plans of those GOP gazillionaires for the coming weeks and my paranoia is on high sensory alert.  In today's post, Silver states, '......would make Mr. Romney a clear underdog — perhaps even one who needs some foreign policy or economic crisis to intervene to give him much of a chance at winning.'

Now I ask myself, with all their $$$$$$$$$ could they/would they .........?  And then that little horned red being with the pitchfork comes into focus and smirks as it says, 'you betcha!'

I do not like money taking over politics, Aunt Sam.  But here's the thing:  Obama 2012 has already spent more money than every prior Presidential campaign has ever raised and spent.  It is true that the super-rich supporters of the GOP agenda are spending hundreds of millions of dollars (and so are Democrats).  

I think $50MM spent on field offices has a marginal effect at any level of spending I can imagine.  I cannot say that I think that $100MM more of nasty ads does.  I was in Nevada in July a great deal, and TV was completely taken over by Senate and Presidential campaign ads, most very negative.  I don't think they moved the pile much. NV polls varied with national polls.

Put another way, I don't think the President's negatives can be affected very much by an ad barrage.  Almost everyone has a firmly held view of an incumbent President.  Far easier to change the view of a challenger, easiest to hang a challenger with negatives.  The ad barrage would be more formidable were it to build up a GOP agenda, rather than merely to attack the President ineffectually.  But that latter is what you're going to see.

You are giving Romney too much credit by saying he has led "at times".  He's led by insignificant margins once or twice in the whole cycle.  As Nate Silver posted yesterday evening -

"has never held a lead over Mr. Obama by any substantive margin in the polls. The Real Clear Politics average of polls put Mr. Romney ahead by a fraction of a percentage point at one point in October 2011, and he pulled into an exact tie at one point late in the week of his convention, after it was over, but he has never done better than that."

And as Mr. Silver pointed out, at this point demographic changes mean that the Republican base just isn't big enough to win by itself.

As long as Republicans double down on their exclusionary policies and continue to embrace the rabid nativists (which is a substantial segment of their base), they have little chance of building a national coalition to win the presidency.  The Republicans have made a conscious decision to embrace every wacko fringe group in their coalition in an attempt to swell the base and increase their voteshare, and now they are poised to lose decisively.

Their only hope is to jettison the worst of the nativists and hope they can cajole their coalition into an attempted rapprochement with Latino's and other immigrant groups. If their base doesn't go along with it (which is possible), they are going to be in real trouble going forward.

I tend to place my stock in Gallup, which is the best pollster over time working in the U.S.  At times, Romney has led in the Gallup tracker, which is on a seven-day roll and is methodologically sound (taking account of cellphone users).  I am aware that as compared to this cycle, Gallup has had a mild Republican lean.  

Also, Gore won the popular vote nationally (and Bush won the Florida vote that was used) "by insignificant margins."  So leading in the WaPo poll by one this week was a lead for Romney, just as the Gallup one point lead for Obama was a lead.  They have mostly been small this cycle.

Nate has stopped short of quite saying their base can't win, but he can see the writing on the wall, and you're right to see that conclusion in his work, clearly.

You raise the interesting point of what happens if a strain of Republicans tries to break with the party majority on immigration.  I think they almost have to, but I don't think that will be well-received.  It wasn't when John McCain did it, it wasn't when George W. Bush did it, and it has caused primaries over the division it portends.  So good point in terms of putting your finger on what happens there, thanks for commenting.

I watched the Sunday morning shows today, thought today was a day I should, and so I suffered through both an interview with Romney and one with Ryan.  As a result, your well-reasoned piece, replete with "arithmetic" (will that word ever be the same anymore, and not attached to Bill Clinton?), was so so so welcome.  I can't thank you enough for the assurance that, soon, I will never have to look at these two people again.  

I especially look forward to Ryan's demise.  When he's on point, he seems to me like some know it all candidate for class president somewhere.  And when he's caught red-handed, he looks to me like a large rodent in the headlights.  

I think you may see Ryan run for President in 2016.  He will likely perform well in a debate with Biden, and there will be a lot of people who will see him as next in line if he does.

So I think you will see Ryan again, and I think his world record in the heptathlon is a great reason we should.

Gotta say, A-man, I am truly enjoying your snark vis-a-vis Paul Ryan's propensity to exaggerate his athletic prowess. This one, in particular made me laugh out loud, heartily.

We all know the Marathon Man gets drilled.

Great post, A-man. And terrific analysis all along the way. If it hadn't been for you and Nate I would have been really discouraged over the last month or so. I did notice the phenomenon of Romney stuck in most of the polls in the 45 area.  I went all in in August for O, holding my breath somewhat.Couldnit be happier with this current lift.  

What bothered me was how little the tracking polls moved even when, because of the absolute emptiness of the Romney campaign, it seemed like such a clear choice. Perhaps the point is that I was following it closely and others didn't tune in until the conventions.

 

Obama had a small bounce by historical standards.  Romney had literally none.  This campaign has been Ypres since April.  It would take something very weird to change it at this point.

Deflating Mitt

After watching Melissa Harris Perry discuss voter ID laws today and watching

this segment on college voters.

The most disheartening comment in that segment is the young woman saying "I don't really think my vote matters'.  For the first time in response to that I can say 'if your vote didn't matter the republicans wouldn't be working so hard to keep you from voting'.

Pennsylvania has the most strict voter ID laws btw and it's clear that if the court upholds this law it could swing the state to Romney.

Watching this and also noting that there is this organization called 'true the vote' intending to be at polls around the country (most likely in swing states) trained to intimidate and challenge voters...

I am still very concerned about how the cheating aspect and final weeks carpet bombing of political ads could turn this election. 

The worst thing that could happen to us is to have  another election where it is clear that the election is stolen.

And republicans that support today's republican party should hang their head's in shame over these voter ID laws that clearly to not even address the type of fraud they pretend it would prevent.  It is a complete farce and is only intended to make it possible for the election to be stolen.

I know I stay focused on this but I have since the Wisconsin ID law was passed writing to numerous leaders asking what they were doing about them.  And I don't think we can afford to take our eyes off of them and to keep taking whatever action we can to lessen their impact.

 

 

On the Internet, I often run into people arguing that in 2004, Democrats would have won the election were the votes counted properly, such that John Kerry should have won Ohio.  

The reality is that 2004 was the only recent election in which the Democratic Presidential candidate actually performed better than their national performance -- e.g., Gore -4.0, Kerry +.3, Obama -2.6.  So Kerry's vote to me was anomalously high by other markers.

Voter ID laws, however, are very serious business.  It is not ok to have disparate impact by race and class on voting, and it is no accident that the group with the shrinking base is trying to do this.  Democracy is for everyone.  Having said all of that, the early voting process has been a massive expansion of enfranchisement, by permitting low motivation and low information voters to vote more readily.  So there are attempts to increase the exercise of the franchise, and attempts to decrease.  And you are right, we should always be at the ready to combat vote suppression.

I believe there were problems with both the 2000 and 2004 elections that lead to people not being able to vote and their votes not being counted that allowed republicans to steal the election. 

We can disagree about that but this is why I won't take my focus off of the very real and very blatant voter suppression efforts taking place in this election. 

Too many people have no idea that they have a new requirement to meet in order to be allowed to vote this year and many may not overcome the obstacles they have to jump through in order to maintain their right if they do find out. 

 

You shouldn't take your eyes off of the issue of voter suppression.  It is an important thing, and fighting it is good.

I have never understood why based on decent exit polling, people thought Kerry had states stolen from him that he logically shouldn't have won.  Exit polls are notoriously unreliable.  Kerry overperformed in relation to Gore in Ohio, but some think Kerry was the victim of vote tally manipulation nonetheless.  If you shift 60,000 votes in Ohio, Kerry wins it, but then would have won the election while losing the popular vote by more than 2 percentage points.  I am not sure why people would expect John Kerry to overperform in Ohio by more than 2.5% in relation to the national trend when Al Gore underperformed there by 4.0%.  That would be a 6.5% change of OH voting in relation to the nation.  

Put another way, that would be a bigger move in relation to the national trend, cycle over cycle, than Obama caused in Virginia from 2004 to 2008.  A tall order, and a statistical outlier that would be, as Yoda might say.

I worked the election day 2004 for the Kerry side in Ohio.

I'd love to be able to say Ohio got stolen. But that's not what I saw.

I experienced it like this: everyone in the pro-Kerry internet bubbles I frequented didn't know anyone (not just in Ohio, not a single soul anywhere) that voted for Bush. Ergo those Bush votes couldn't be real votes. Then when Kerry said the votes for Bush were real, he was in on it, too!  Because it just couldn't be, everyone they knew voted for Kerry. Everyone in the country knew from the Google Bomb that Bush was a miserable failure.

It was my first taste of being in a virtual reality that superseded meatspace reality. Where someone like you, on the ground in Ohio, was considered deluded by meatspace, and where only the virtual was real.  I'm more used to this effect now, it doesn't phase me as much. cheeky

Bush was a miserable failure.

And not just on the internet.

Beautiful - forget 3-11 hour waits at polling booths and misdirected voters, it's just a question of meatspace vs. virtual Google Bomb calculations. 

Anyone who remembers Florida 2000 and saw the Ohio governor's either incompetent or scheming buildup to their battleground electiion 2004 has a right to be suspicious without being accused of wearing a tinfoil hat.

The machinations going into Ohio 2004 are little different than those nationwide going into election 2012, except now they've learned to get the local law & legislatures firmly behind their vote stealing & voter obstruction.

I agree with you synch, it's the dirty tricks like this I was referencing in my comment above.  It's a horrible feeling to know that they could prevail only due to malicious acts, and nothing would be done. 

No one has really fiercely taken action about all their lies, refusing to disclose the contributors and the list goes on - so, if they've been testing the waters, I can hear the Kochs et al. yelling out, 'Come on in, the waters fine and we can do whatever it takes without worry'. 

There should be marching in the streets about the attempt to disenfranchise, but there's not.  People expressed more outrage over Rush an the Fluke debacle.

Yes the lack of national outrage about voter suppression is disturbing but the media does its part to make is seem as though the republicans are not 'trying to steal their vote'.  I think if they put it that way it might get more attention.

But tonight there is also the voter purge that took place in NM and talk that it may become a swing state.  There is no room to be overconfident from my perspective. 

I don't want to lessen enthusiasm, I just want to say work hard to get out the vote and overcome voter suppression and don't take any poll or any pundit's sense of confidence for granted no matter how good they say things look.

 

Yes, you're entirely right.  The statistical modeling of a Silver should only be valid if Democrats work their butts off, and do their GOTV, and raise money, and Obama campaigns reasonably well to the end.  Deviations on any of these points make an Obama win much less likely.

There should be marching in the streets about the attempt to disenfranchise, but there's not.

Huh ?!? You yourself wrote a post here  in April suggesting extremely strict voter registration rules far more onerous than any recent "disenfranchisement" efforts by the GOP;  claiming that: In my district, about 20% of our voter’s registration listings are not valid voters; quoting you, my bold:

Proposal:

1. From January to March, every four years, in year preceding a Presidential Election, implement and maintain a mandatory voter registration renewal for every voter.  (We have to renew driver’s licenses and auto registrations, even warehouse store memberships.) What’s old and sullied, becomes new again!

2. All renewals must be in person.*

3 Existing voters must advise which state they were previously registered in and via computer, this can be verified and data posted as to renewal date and site.

4. Each renewal registrant will have their picture taken for placement on voter’s registration card.  The card must be reviewed by election official at polls.

5. Cards will be mailed to current address, cannot be forwarded. 

6. All states will be required to post on internet their voter registration listings inclusive of names without addresses or other personal information.

7. Each state will have criteria in place to ensure annual purging of voters registration (i.e. deaths, name changes, relocations outside of state).

8. Each state must, if applicable, within 10 days, send notice to previous state of residence for new relocated voters. 

9. The oversight regulations for absentee ballots reviewed:  A copy of the voter’s registration card must be included with each absentee ballot submitted.

10. All mail-in absentee ballots return addresses must be verified to be same in name and locale as on registration listing.  (And no, this is not being done in many districts.)

*Must provide current proof of identification via driver’s license, passport, or other approved identifier.If unable due to health or other valid reason to apply in person, legal representative must provide affidavit assigning legal rights, with applicant’s valid I.D. and recent photo.

Those reaching legal voting age after requisite renewal dates will be allowed to register in their home state up to date of election.

11.   Every renewal applicant will be given a ‘voters tutorial handbook’, with current information about recent governmental actions.  At time of renewal will have to take and pass a test based on information delivered in tutorial.  They can take the test as many times as needed.

 

In my district the 20% if not more is fact.  We are in rural Alaska and during our tourist season we have triple the number of our actual year round residents here as seasonal employees (all reside in other states and many are only here for one season).  It has sadly been modus operandi for some to register to vote here (unlawfully)for a variety of reasons.  Usually they are encouraged to do so to vote in our local elections, but some do it because they are told it will help them to receive  a state Permanent Fund annual stipend delivered to Alaska residents.  There is virtually little voters registration oversight here.

As far as the 'proposal', this was the precursor:

 Most, I’m sure, will find fault with the proposal offered here that only addresses part of the problem. I’m also certain that some have even better viable solutions. Hopefully those who negate and critique will submit feasible and positive alternatives.

It was an attempt to open discussion a hypothesis only.

If you note the language:

From January to March, every four years, in year preceding a Presidential Election, implement and maintain a mandatory voter registration renewal for every voter.

I do not sanction making changes within six months of any election and certainly do not condone nor support what is being done in too many states because it is IMO a blatant attempt to disenfranchise voters without any cause but to skew the voting numbers.

It is true that your last proposed requirement is unconstitutional and would be retrogressive in eliminating voting for some more than others.  I have never been a big fan of mandatory anything.  Voting fraud is generally not a big problem in the US as compared to vote suppression, but maybe your community is unusual w seasonal workers.  Anyhow, it must be good to know your writing is memorable and impactful within this community.  :)

Note to self:   Always remember to put disclaimer on posts when introducing hypothesis in effort to stimulate discussion and remember that some will always ignore: 'I’m also certain that some have even better viable solutions. Hopefully those who negate and critique will submit feasible and positive alternatives'.

I agree with your premise about the requirements, but wish that there could be a 'law' that if you don't vote, you don't get to whine and carp about the election results. wink

Let me put it another way:

Obama is ahead by something more than a field goal and less than a touchdown. Romney has to make something big happen to get the lead.

Furthermore, Obama has possession of the ball. Romney has to try to get the initiative again, and will become increasingly desperate to do so as the clock ticks down. 

Obama's been executing his strategy methodically, and with a lead going into the final stretch his ball-control, ground-game strategy is only going to become more effective. Romney is likely to take bigger and bigger risks, and perhaps to start flailing, as we get closer to Election Day.

But if that all sounds reassuring, it shouldn't. Because WE are Obama's ground game.  Romney's going to try to win this game in the air, with hundreds of millions of secret super-PAC donations. Obama's trying to win it on the ground, with his organization and his volunteers. We are his volunteers. The only thing that can fight all that filthy money is us.

The election isn't over. It's time for all of us to carry the ball.

I agree that there is a lot left to do, and that Democrats should not be complacent.  I am not done for the season in supporting the President or other Democrats who I favor, and I hope that no one confuses predictions on my part with a statement of feeling done with things.  Those are different hats.  I look forward to the next 58 days.  This election is very important, and we should be discussing it with others, and trying to have our voice be heard, rather than defer to tracking polls. 

I'd never doubt your commitment to the ground game, A-Man. I admire how hard you've been working. I'm just trying to keep the drum beat going.

Leaving the debates and what surprises they may hold in store aside...

Romney's strategy seems to be in descending order...

1) Make this a referendum on the last four years

2) Say as little as he can about what he would do

3) And when the first two aren't pulling, change his position on some issue to tack toward the polling winds

I read recently where Romney has said he will keep the "good parts" of Obamacare, including the waiver for pre-existing conditions. Then he tacked back the right to say the waiver was only if you'd been continuously insured.

Romney's tacks really can't be described as "flip flops." They are something bigger and more audacious than that.

Something in what you said, Doc, inspired this comment, but I don't know what. smiley

Even before I heard about his "continuously insured" statement, I knew it was a fake because of the language he used. "People with pre-existing conditions would be able to get insurance". That is technically already true. They just have to pay thousands of dollars in premiums, and endure thousands more in deductibles and co-pays before their "insurance" kicks in. Believe me, I know!

Remember the real name of Obama-Care: The AFFORDABLE CARE Act.

Affordability. That is the part Republicans want to get rid of.

Romney just wants a prior point of reference so he can later claim (likely in a debate) to have taken a milder position, to misrepresent himself to swing voters.  I see no way around the morass that Romneycare is in trying to please his base and swing voters and appear authentic at once.

Win or lose, I think it's important to not over-state the role of demographics, or make any too strong claims about an "ascendant coalition." e.g. It's worth remembering some of the claims, hopes and expectations which followed 2008, and which often involved the destruction, implosion or end of the Republican Party. That could still happen, but it wasn't quite as close as some thought.

As far as demographics goes, the surprise in other countries is that right-wing parties can indeed turn and move very far, very fast, in terms of capturing or neutralizing advantages. In Canada, they worked very hard for roughly one term, and managed to turn enormous blocs of immigrants in their favour - and won a majority when no one, and I mean no one, had seen this coming. There are an awful lot of things which can be promised to immigrants, and the entire history of not just North America, but large stretches of the world, seem to me to show how swiftly these surprising moves can take place. So be slightly aware that demographics - whether around race or immigration, sex or age - can swing.

Secondly, I don't really see any ascendant coalition, frankly. What the 
Republicans have done is carve out their territory - poorly, I would say - and the Democrats often look and feel to have simply hauled together the remaining bits. That is, there is no strong internal logic to the Democratic crowd, and most importantly, no ideological or policy thrust to their show. Are they actually pro immigration? Education? The middle class? Peace? They may appear that way, relative to a band of political freaks, but I'm not sure it's much more than that. 

Quite simply, the Republicans haven't yet had that moment when they've had to truly face down the insurgents, or.... be completely taken over by them. In Canada, the right-wing extremists first split the party, then starved and killed off the old guard, then remerged the two parts, taking over in the process. They then put a ferociously right-wing guy in charge, but taught him how to sound and move moderately. They won. Cameron in Britain is an interesting second path. Issues like greening, or youthfulness or immigration - all these things can be shifted.

As for this election, Romney is a dreadful candidate. The GOP has a dreadful 20 years history (perhaps 40)(hell, maybe 50.) And their policies stink.

But. They face an incumbent presiding over an awful economy. They have piles of money. They are happy to cheat. They have enormous media channels, channels which are tilted. And their opponents may just have hit their high water mark in terms of excitement and momentum. If it is broken - by events, by ads, by mis-steps - I still dread an E-day in which, even with early voting, the juice just isn't there to turn out the vote.

 

Your last paragraph is why, if the Democrats win, I think your paragraph "Secondly" is incorrect.  There's no ideological or policy thrust to PPACA, Dodd-Frank, repealing DADT, cap and trade, repealing Citizens United, and the Buffett Rule?  This represents a greater hardening and clarity of Democratic doctrine during a period of time in which the Party has taken an awful midyear election and is struggling to piece together a re-election.  Compared to the Democratic Party in 1994, I think we're doing very well by the lights of the left (failing to pass HCR, repealing Glass-Steagall, signing DOMA, passing NAFTA) and have at least as much of a core.  (That's not a stab at Clinton, he put the party back to where it could govern.  It is now moving forward on some of these issues, but in the same center-leaning style he showed by example could work.)

What you and other critics react to, IMO, is the lack of an even more strongly stated liberal worldview that is the reflexive opposite of Ryanism.  The problem is, until we had Clinton and Obama, we lost these elections.  We win because they have steered a path to commanding a plurality in the nation that America is.  The Carter-Mondale-Dukakis path was our Michael Foot time.  We are now on to our Tony Blairs.  And our politics doesn't have three forces like in Britain and Canada, which is an important reason it's more strictly dichotomous and shaving off the 50th percentile, which is a lot of why it looks like it does and contains the compromises it contains.  

Some rambling thoughts.

The policies you list are all (other than perhaps the repeal of CU), quite old-style neo-liberal (or pick another name) sorts of moves. I would argue they are not only inadequate for the times, and barely understandable by the public, but they are actually more just empty labels or catch-alls under which Democratic pols can piece together often/largely lobbyist-driven thrusts.

"Cap and trade," for instance, is something I've been working on since 1989. You can do anything you like with it. It's basically a net you throw over everyone in the country, and then decide what you want changed, and how serious you are about it. There are obvious, easy gains to be made with the policy - but you can do those changes without it as well. Are we actually likely to see it bite on some harder nuggets - like coal plants or pipelines? I'm not sure. To me, it just embodies a policy which let's the Dems look both ways, and avoid moving.

Health Care adopted a formerly conservative approach to the issue, Dodd-Frank is the same sort of game, as is Buffett. D-F is nowhere near up to the task of setting out some serious framework for finance moving forward, nor is Buffett a serious tax policy. They're hints, nods and head-fakes.

You might regard these are something I might oppose on some sort of purist liberal or lefty grounds. Actually, nothing of the sort. If patchwork works, then great. If it's philosophically left or right, not a big deal to me. For instance, I think we're headed out of an age of centralized public education and it doesn't bother me much. 

What I find difficult is that I know many of these proposals won't work. Dodd-Frank is just not up to it, cap and trade is a tool that's so easy to unwind behind the scenes it makes you weep, and a 30% tax rate on the rich is nothing more than a symbol and a baby step. 

More importantly, they are policy tools that allow the Dems maximum flexibility with the public, and with the big funders. They're all also descendants of the Clinton era. You can claim they all show some sort of commonality and thus show clarity and a coalition, but there's not actually much more clarity of commonality than in maximizing the refusal to take a stance.

Now, speaking as a policy person who helped drive these sorts of tools into the light of day over the past 25 years, and in 3 countries, I can truthfully say that I think there is an enormous value to having tools with flexibility. Tools which enabled us to pitch PAST the old political and ideological divisions. This was especially important as we needed to drop the idiocy of the old left, and had to walk through a time dominated by the rise of the Right. I've said it before, but I think it's worth repeating. A lot of these tools were developed to deal with a time when the Right was roaring up the charts, when their Reagans and Thatchers were being chiselled into mind and myth, and we needed to avoid destru  The problem now, however, is more that the Dems don't see that ction.

But the times have changed, and they require us to make some decisions and push, hard, in specific directions. But these old tools - and the non-ideological paint jobs we put on them - are now hamstringing us by insisting on pitching to both sides (i.e. including the 1%, the oilco's, the big bakers, etc.) as the Clinton-Blair types were hamstrung by the old lefty guard.

Shorter: Times have changed.

As for now being on your Tony Blairs, nope. Sorry. Clinton was your Tony Blair. Great speaker, fast-thinker, good looks, neo-liberal push, but with some quiet lefty sympathies he could build into decisions and bills. Across the English-speaking world, those guys effectively gave way to their Finance Ministers and #2's, with Gordon Brown, Al Gore, Paul Martin and the stiffer, more wonkish wing. Which failed, utterly. Since then, it's been attempts to find warmer wonks, ones who could actually give a speech. The Miliband boys, Obama, and even Layton up here. 

Problem? They're not all that good at "warm."

Second problem? It's 20 years on. And so, their policies, and their approach to policy, is simply not capable of dealing with a world - their world - which had the ass fall out of its pants. They all want to go back to 1997 or 2007. Except China's not willing to go back there. Nor are debts going back. Nor the rich. Nor atmospheric CO2 levels. 

Will this sort of approach be enough to win an election? Well, yes, it might. But even if it does, say, if Ed Miliband beats Cameron, it's not that he's got any policy or ideological thing happening, or any sort of coalition with any purpose or direction. It'll just have been the act that the Conservatives are whack jobs who aren't even up to the standards of good 20th Century governance, but were lost back in the 19th.

So yeah, we might win. Which is nice. 

But our worlds could still fall to such shit that life would be abysmal.

And if that continues very long, in our name, you have to think very hard about what the next opposition would look like. Not a happy sight. And in fact, we may get them anyway starting in November. This is not a pretty place to be.

Very good and thought-provoking. Thank you.

The cap and trade bill that almost passed was important for the sake of having a or any policy in the US toward emission control and reduction.  I am aware of what you do and could not disagree more if you think that it's passage would not have been a major step forward for the US and would not have set us on a better path of policy here.  We're still sitting out carbon-emission reduction, and last time I checked, we emit a nontrivial amount of it.  We need paradigm shift in energy use and generation more, and I fear us not getting there this century, and what will happen.

The primary problem w the last bubble was the nonregulation of derivatives.  DF starts that.  Once you start regulating something you didn't, you have traction.  We are all surfing on an invisible wave in its influence, but it is (again) more left than repealing Glass-Steagall.

Greatly adding to Medicaid rolls cannot be dismissed as a conservative solution.  And if more universal health care in an era of rolling it back is "conservative", which to me has always been a sophistic objection to the PPACA, then color me red.  But again, you have a frame on which you can hang cost controls.  The barrier to that is the lack of universality of health care itself.  The debate 5-10 years hence will be different structurally because it won't be as much I have mine you get none.  It will be about cost control for essentially all.  That's a great need and PPACA facilitates that by putting everyone in the system.  That's a profound, and collectivizing, change, tools be damned.

I totally agree that these part-measures are not a solution nor panaceas for the problems we both know are there.  They are a vastly better alternative to the nihilism they stand against.  I'm a 45 year old man with some unfulfilled aspirations to helping the public good and who like all of us may not be here X years hence.  But you have to do something, you have to try something.  Your points are good points, but not as reasons not to do the project we are doing.  The project is better than the lack of real alternatives.

And disagree on Blair.  Obama's one of the great pols on the last half-century and will be remembered thus.  Boomers have Clinton, Millenials Obama, it's taste and nothing more.

Quick (ha!) further comments.

There are a set of individual CO2-reducing actions - like building more renewables, retrofitting buildings, raising fuel efficiency, swapping out of coal - that you can do without enacting a national C&T. In fact, these actions are what I give Obama CREDIT for doing. While some of the more policy-enamoured in the ENGO's were insisting on C&T, I liked the more pragmatic approach - doing the list above. The result? U.S. CO2 emissions at a 20 year low. Sure, much is recession-driven. And sure, much is fracking-related. But if we can get auto-makers retooling for a doubled CAFE, and if we can get utilities onto gas - even just for a time - the game moves our way. C&T will involve a nightmarish set of opportunities for the lobbyists to constantly constantly constantly readjust the dials, behind the scenes, to ease pressure on themselves, while claiming their active and positive participation. 

The reason why we can and should do the individual initiatives now instead is precisely that the times have changed. I don't need to apply backroom pressure on landfill operators or try to set up fancy trading schemes where coal guys buy replanted forest or CFC reductions. As of 2012, the world is in a place where you can just bloody make cars that go 50 or 100 mpg, and can add wind at low prices, and where solar's cost falls daily. We can walk past the old system.

It's good to say "we've started" to regulate derivatives. This was a case where the world got utterly thrown on its ass, by an enormous new reality, and not only didn't D-F handle that - it didn't handle what the financial system has already moved on to. That is, you have to at LEAST handle the causes of the last crash. Better, you get out ahead and remove the capability of the system to run down the next most obvious alleyways. We're only "starting" on a system to regulate out another 2008 crash, and we had overwhelming public support to hammer out much more significant and useful changes. This is just an unspinnable fail, and the only + I can put on our scoreboard is that the Republicans would absolutely and for a certainty do worse.

I try not to argue the health stuff, and I'm glad young people and the poor and some other groups will get hauled in. That's a good thing. But the system as a whole strikes me as a massively complex mess. Something which will be uber-managed by the Big Boys, for their benefit, in the days to come. This isn't a case like the 60's and so on, where industry was only weakly organized to micro-manage, they roll the cash in now, and they can far more easily turn the dials their way than we can turn them toward a cost-effective universal coverage system. I'm not saying I know this, just that that is the feel I get.

Yes, it's better than the GOP. But no, it's not yet a Project worthy of the name. It was closer to being that in 2008. It had the feel of a movement, and given the events of the day, could have been turned into an ongoing force driving change. Right now, Obama will be remembered as the man who missed his moment - and actually, shut down ours.

In the end, maybe that's ok. We'll just have to turn to someone, or something else to get the job moved through its next stages.

Meantime, I want him to keep the madmen out... and with luck, and pressure, maybe he'll begin to move in the direction he should have led in 2008-09. 

And BTW, this isn't some generational taste - I loved Obama. More than Clinton. I feel Clinton - who achieved a lot, GIVEN his time, and while being a great pol - was many long yards from being an FDR. He bought us all time. So I thank him for that. But Obama, given HIS times... ratcheted change down. And demobilized a nascent movement. It happens. But I'd say my view of it isn't a generational thing, or a taste thing - in fact, I'd say it's more than you WANT it to be. You'd prefer, I suspect, to be able to label these differences as generational somehow. But I'd say - and can make a fairly strong case - that it's my read on the times and what they require. There's little sense in comparing Clinton and Obama straight up, as having achieved more or less liberal things, without recognizing that the world is a staggeringly different place 20 years on. For another day, perhaps.

I agree that the CAFE standards was a bigger thing and with much of what you say about new forms of energy.  Unfortunately, the world's curve of carbon consumption is insane and bends back against the good transformative stuff, so the sooner a world leader like the US gets in a framework, the better for multilateral change in the next international moment of moving toward it.  When the US stands outside the frame, that won't help when the new Copenhagen occurs.

I do not agree that the will to regulate away another 2008 crash existed in 2009 or that you or I or more importantly the pols would agree about what that would be.  So much of the derivatives market remains untouched.  For me, the failure of 2009 was of respecting the moral hazard problem, which was a real one, above bailing out homeowners, as we should have in some fashion. 

But we get stuck in solving yesterday's problems, which is dumb.  Solving the housing bubble in 2012 is about as smart as winning the war in Afghanistan 11 years after Mullah Omar was overthrown.  It's not the current issue -- the market for credit is so tight, the 2002-2008 housing bubble essentially cannot recur, any more than al Qaeda will resume training in Afghanistan.  We have the opposite problem, which is credit being too tight, not too loose.

I see Clinton and Obama as having very different times, opportunities, and accomplishments.  Obama had greater opportunities, but also harder times.  His accomplishments with similar majorities deserve comparison to Clinton's, and they outshine Clinton's easily and obviously.  But Clinton resurrected and set a new course for the Dems, like New Labour.  That was much of his achievement.  Whatever Obama and his successors achieve is a function of, and owes a debt to, Clinton in that regard.  But Obama inherited a vast shit sandwich of an economy that constrained his ability to govern after mid-2009, and I think he will win this election, own the succeeding recovery, and be thought of with the same vague, gauzy reverence now affixed to the Big Dog, who was lucky to be President when he was.  Obama changed the governing coalition, and before you judge how he will be remembered negatively, wait to see what that coalition starts toward, and how it serves as the basis what is next, just as Clinton helped create the world that created Obama. 

These things are slow-rolling.  The American left is much better off today than it was in 1988 or 1994, and much more likely to command the arc of government in the next decade than we who came of age under Reagan (like Obama) would have thought likely.

 

Re: multilateral change on CO2. I never liked the Kyoto framework, and never felt it would work. So I help places chart other ways forward, not dependent on that system's suppport. IMHO, if the U.S. could just keep pumping up the volume on EV's and PHEV's, on wind and solar, that'll do me just fine. The rest is mostly talk.

Not convinced credit is too tight. Many U.S. Democrats wish to see, as I said, a return to 2007. And so, they think people are inappropriately being denied credit. But think on this for a minute. For starters, that credit is effectively coming from other nations, not U.S. savers, who have less than a 4% savings rate - far too LOW for the risks and costs they face. The U.S. is also a nation where tens of millions continue to be under water, and tens of millions more are scrambling to stay out of the mire. Meanwhile, unemployment continues, people leave the labour market, pension costs look to rise. For this, we should unwind credit further? Ummmmm, I don't think so. If the U.S. home buyer and home owner needs to be put on more solid ground, then put them on more solid ground. Let's not look to the banks to ease back on credit standards. 

Your next para comparing Clinton to Obama strikes me as having imbibed perhaps too deeply of the Clinton-Obama wars to see it clearly. It's like when people feel that Obama has somehow outdone Clinton on gay issues by moving past DADT. To which my only response is.... it's 20 years later. To not be able to move past that would be appalling. Same with Kyoto and Clean Energy - the technologies are vastly more improved and cost-effective today, and have enormous cross-party support. Any President today should get light-years more done on solar than a President from 20 years ago.

As for the American Left being so much better off, well... my personal calculation from 1984-92 was that the priority task of the day was to blunt the momentum of the Right. To stop them from completely dominating the agenda, closing down avenues of thought, stop them from closing down spheres were new worlds were being created - green ones, internet ones, etc. Clinton was that holding action. The idea being that the Right would effectively "age out." (Gee, a demographic idea.... who knew?) We'd devoured a tonne of polling-data, and knew that if we could get that accomplished, then - even without having any blinding new world-changing programs implemented - the ground would be shifted. We even used to use 2008 as our target date, funny enough, since it would be "40 years after 1968," in our funny way of counting change.

But Obama hasn't taken the torch forward in any significant way, not in terms of crafting the next generation of solutions. He and his staff should be all over those web-sites on sharing and collaborative consumption and looking at those sorts of new methods of production... and instead, we find him fumbling with "nudges" and the like. Hell, the Grad Tax idea which we're only really now hearing moved onto the field of play re: education has been there the entire time in other jurisdictions.

It's what I mean when I complain that his advisors have been too mainstream, too locked into old solutions, too afraid of the powers that be, and too afraid to risk much on people, and their willingness to change.

Anyway, perhaps in his second term. Let's hope.

Because with Romney, there is no hope. 

sharing and collaborative consumption and looking at those sorts of new methods of production

Can you elaborate a bit. Not sure what you mean here.

Here's a good place to start. q

I agree that "starting" is the critical, and often under-appreciated, thing. It is the bird in the hand that can lead to the two in the bush. So I'm with you because this is what is in front of us to do.

However, the problem with dissolving a coalition into a series of issues and programs, however worthy, is that it isn't easy for the average person to hold on to them as "one thing."

The problem with saying the Democratic Party stands for X different planks is that: 1) issues can be co-opted and turned around as Clinton showed and 2) a list never seems to sink in to people's hearts and minds.

(Then again, you can be too all-encompassing, as "hope and change" maybe were, and bring together people who are all thinking the slogan means different things and thus aren't brought together at all.)

To me, even the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party are in a defensive crouch. They are spending most of their time defending programs that are 60 years old. There are some exceptions, like ACA, but even DF (as I understand it) is an attempt to reconstitute a regulatory structure that FDR set up--an attempt to get back what we lost and update it for modern finance practices and products.

Even as we do all these things, we need to leapfrog to a new synthesis that blows out old categories, feels fresh, and addresses the felt, if inchoate, needs of a broad cross- section of people, many of whom might have formerly been on opposite sides of the old divide between Dem/GOP...Conservative/Liberal.

As I have already written at some length elsewhere recently, I am unimpressed at the idea that conserving the New Deal and the degree of socialized care it portends is some kind of boring, stationary, paleo standing-still thing.  We are in a struggle about what America means.  Does it mean caring for others, or not?  It's pretty simple. 

I don't know what "hope" and "change" meant.  I have the "progress" poster, never was a "hope" guy.  Health care is a huge deal, as Biden pointed out.  Whether you call millions more people with coverage hope, change, or progress matters not.  It is real and good.  I wanted the green issues addressed more than HCR, because they are human issues, and not only American issues.  Those worry me the most, actually. 

That the current Democratic Party is halting at times in how it marshals its arguments, given that it must hold together a broader and more fractious coalition, worries me not at all.  It is a structurally compelled reality.

Just so we don't misunderstand each other...

I TOTALLY AGREE that defending the New Deal programs is important and a big deal. Not boring at all. The message that we are a country that cares about everyone is critical, key, uber-important.

My only point is that if we're spending much of our time defending programs that were passed, well-loved, and even taken for granted a generation or so ago, we aren't really moving forward much. It means we've lost ground, at least to my mind.

Put another way, territory we thought we could take for granted is suddenly in question. People are calling SS a Ponzi scheme, for crissakes. This is like having to reprove the Pythagorean Theorem again. Didn't we do that 1,000s of years ago?

The defense is necessary and I wouldn't want to diminish it at all. But I do think liberals and progressives have to reinvent ourselves a bit. However, destructive they may be, conservatives are offering "something new" (something awful and new) and have convinced some numbers of people that something new is required.

Maybe we need to reinvent what it means for the country to care about everyone.

Hope I'm making myself clear...

I think the extension of the safety net to more medical care for the poor, the removal of pre-existing condition discrimination, and the extension of rights to gay and lesbian persons constitutes moving forward and not back. 

I do think green initiatives are the place to move forward beyond old arguments, in a new lane aside from the equal protection clause and distributive issues.

I have noticed here in SW FL that there is a growing awareness of the issues in this election.  I have had friends tell me they found the speeches that were made at the DNC convention by women exciting.  Like me they have waited a long time to see women display their political muscle in an election.  These older women are not happy with the war on women's health and Ryan's plan for SS and Medicare.    

After the ruling by Judge Hinkle striking down the unfair 3 rd party voter registration regulations a week or so ago,  Saturday my door was knocked on by someone asking me if I was registered to vote.  She gave me a paper with a number on it for information and to call for a ride to early voting.   Also told me to pass it on to someone that I might know that needs help voting.  I live in a poor neighborhood so GOTV is working this area.  They only have this month to get people registered to vote.   

Obama is even or maybe narrowly ahead in Florida, and your state can deliver the Presidency to him.

As to litigation, it would be desirable if it all had to be finished by some further prior time to avoid difficulties with the process.  But from what I understand, the Obama campaign has been working Florida hard for the last 18 or so months.

Yet the biggest reason last week that President Obama moved ahead by a modest but apparently decisive margin was the speech made by the last Democrat before him to win either of Ohio or Florida – Secretary of State Clinton’s husband, Bill.  The center is shrinking but available to persuasion in a down economy, and putting Medicare-cutting Paul Ryan forward, and doubling-down on the lie that President Obama eviscerated the Clinton-Gingrich welfare reform was just too easy.  President Clinton easily rebutted that falsehood, in a way that will carry through the fall.  He also spoke to those persuadable voters in a way the GOP convention did not really attempt, from Chris Christie’s stern anger to Clint yelling at the chair, and in a way Paul Ryan could not as an iconic movement conservative

It occurs to me that the debates could be a significant wild card here. If Obama does an Al Gore, arrogantly rolling his eyes and sighing at Mitt, and  in doing so forgets about directing "feel your pain" messages to the television camera, and Mitt practices up on a bit of "feel your pain" humility....

oh hell, I'm ready to bet both of these very cool, rational cucumbers are going to be happy to say no to town hall formats, they can then both check their watches and lord it over each other as many times as they want devil

Obama tends to bring his A game when he really needs to.  I think he will be solid in the debates, and very practiced.  Romney has performed well in debates, but has also done weird things at times.  I think there could be a wild card from Biden, or from Romney. 

But the worst shellacking in modern Presidential debate history was Bush-Kerry I, according to Bush's own advisors.  And it probably moved the needle a point or so at the end of the day.  You would need a very potent wild card to really change this one.  The year Bush 41 looked at his watch was a three way race in which all three candidates had led, and in which Clinton got a crazy 20+ point bounce.  It was a needy and malleable electorate.  This is more like a needy, stern, resolute electorate.

I don't think this one is going to be about debate scores from the media or Articleman or even most viewers From my reading, I suspect both campaigns know that the candidates have to target very few undecided voters in swing states in the debates this time, and I suspect that nearly all of those voters are ones who are still trying to decide who will be better to help the economy (see the theme of Clint Eastwood's speech, i.e., let's try a businessman this time.)  I don't think those voters will be looking for solid or practiced or presidential, they'll be looking for someone who sounds like he cares, feels the pain, and sounds like he knows what to do about it. Obama is little better on the first, Romney a little better on the second, both could learn to act what they are missing. But will they? Or will they forget those voters are watching and just think of it as an intellectual debate contest?

They are both cool intellect types, the one who can show more humanity over the debates may be the wild card. They know this is important, they both had their wives come out at the beginning of their conventions and talk about their humanity, turns out a lot of people would probably prefer to vote for their wives than either of them.

Eastwood's little rant only impressed the chattering class and those already persuaded.  It was the canary in the bounceless coalmine.

A lot of people would rather it was 1996 instead of 2012, at bottom.  I get that.  Hillary's positive went astro when she stopped being a candidate who actually had to say stuff.  I don't see more in these data than that.  Being President the last four years would crush any buzz.  The more amazing thing is that ideology is trumping economic determinism.  Someone mailed me that a U-Colorado study showed that economic indicators showed that Romney would win by a landslide.  Almost don't need to say more than that.

Obama has already shown in spring and fall 2008 that he doesn't kill himself in debates. Romney has already proved beyond doubt that he is robotic and difficult to humanize.  I just don't think it likely that empathy will be a dominant trope in these debates.  Romney emoting doesn't make sense, and is too easy to cut into in a programmed way.  You seem to be of the view that Obama's a detached figure whose intellect is predominant and not a virtue, but there is a segment of the public close to 50% who get very emo about the guy, so I don't think he has this crushing empathy deficit your comments seems to imply.  Whereas no one in America is emo over Romney.  No?

So if you're saying the debates won't matter much, I agree and was trying to say that above.  

Pretty insulting comment on Hillary - just stop talking and your positives will go up. Her positives started going up when she started facing defeat and found her groove, her voice. That a whole nattering class managed to give up much of their Hillary hatred between June '08 and January '09 says more about the irrationality in election season. Rise in popularity since is likely that she's seen as a team player, only marginally because of any actual (war) policies she's promoted, though occasional clarity in dealing with a few global events. But mostly it's her uncanny LULZ tweeting ability wearing men-in-black-shades on AirForce 1. I.e. she's now seen as having a sense of humor, which was only derided as June Cleaver before, the clueless stand-by-your-man girl.

BTW, the guy who just blew away both conventions was a racist ready to be run out of the party back in Feb '08. So much for approval.

Re: Obama, people got emo about Chauncey Gardner as well, but that doesn't mean Gardner was a terribly lively outgoing emo guy himself. Frankly I see him as stiff like Gore and Kerry, not that I care - I'm only worried about policies & effectiveness.

Speaking of Gardner, common wisdom in 2008 was Hillary only got her jobs because of her husband, and only knew how to pack lunches and send the kid off to school. It's like they put a housewife in charge of global foreign policy!!! Boy was there glee at that Sarajevo comment - Hillary? ready for foreign travels? sometimes irony is delicious if it weren't so galling.

This exceeds even your own extreme standards for fake contrived offense.  If Obama were Hillary's Secretary of State, he would have far higher approval ratings than she does right now.  Has nothing to do with personality, gender, or your longing for angrier days at the keyboard.  I think you're still recovering from that hideous nut-tossing thread.  All the best.

Seeing from your latest taunts of Genghis that you're more of a jackass than usual, I'll just leave it rest. All the what-ever.

Poor angry fella, can't gin up a good quarrel.  I wonder what it's like to need friction with strangers on the Internet that much.  No wait, I'm actually not interested.

I wonder what's it like to run your own blog just to pontificate and act superior. Oh wait, it's the A in DAG! How clueless of me. Maybe we'll get a "100 points" post off this.

Just want to throw in here that it was not common wisdom, but only Chris Matthews who speculated that Hillary got her jobs because her husband screwed around and everybody felt sorry for her. 

Matthews came out of that bloodied and beaten, his reputation in tatters.  Even those of us who were already committed to Obama reacted as if we had been punched in the gut. It was such a ridiculously sexist thing to say--and I would guess her numbers shot up because of the flak over it.

If you know of someone--anyone--else who went on the attack against Hillary with that particular nuttiness, please share.  Because, other than the Right Wing websites and their forums, I never heard it from the prog/lib factions.

 

Oh Jesus help me, a million Democrats must have said Hillary was only Senator because her husband was Bill, that her foreign experience as first lady was just photo ops, how she'd just married him to ride his coattails to success, that she was so cynical she stayed in a loveless marriage to further their scheming and conniving careers.

I suppose you'll tell me that no one worried about her not being able to "control Bill" in the White House.

(and no, I hadn't heard that Chris Matthews quote before, but did get his "Nurse Ratched" and "makes me want to cross my legs" comments. But he's still on TV.)

Speaking of Gardner, common wisdom in 2008 was Hillary only got her jobs because of her husband, and only knew how to pack lunches and send the kid off to school. It's like they put a housewife in charge of global foreign policy!!! Boy was there glee at that Sarajevo comment - Hillary? ready for foreign travels? sometimes irony is delicious if it weren't so galling.

I guess I missed all that while I was rooting for Obama.  I wasn't at TPM while the Hillary/Obama battles were going on, but I did show up in time to see the fall-out.  If that's what you're referring to, that's just one very small segment of the Democrats actively involved in the election.

I doubt that many people were still underestimating her after she'd had a couple of years in the Senate under her belt.  Clearly, she was as qualified as anybody else on the stage during the debates, and held her own up there.

All that you've mentioned above was old news by the time she ran for president.  Every woman I know couldn't help but admire her strength in the face of the most personal humiliations and the most vicious attacks.  Although I didn't support her for president, she had more guts than anyone she was running against and you never would have heard any of that from me--or most women, for that matter.

But then I can only speak as a woman.  I don't know what the men were doing.  I'll still question your "millions of Democrats" repeating that junk, however.

Just a quick glance: Here's a small example of comments at HuffPost - certainly not the worst I saw over 2 years of the campaign - and a bit on the Hillary fallout/strike at DailyKos - and then there's Andrew Sullivan in Newsweek with "Hillary gives me a cootie vibe" and she's "Dick Cheney in a pants suit" and "Queen Hillary: part of a royal family". There were other attacks that she wasn't a feminist of color so therefore old-school exploitive feminist. Etc., etc.

Likely "millions" overstates how many cared about the election, much less commented on blogs. But for the political blogs for the left, there were some pretty ugly scenes.

Neither Huffington Post nor Andrew Sullivan represent Democrats. Sullivan is not a Democrat and HuffPo is an internet troll festival wrapped in BS.

If you can't own up to the cooties, then I'm sorry, you're just not a serious person.

It's just a fact, Peracles. Hillary had cooties, and while I wouldn't want to be alarmist, she almost certainly has INTESTINAL BACTERIA TO THIS DAY.

Cooties. Busted. Deal with it. 

You seem to have a bit too much inside knowledge, fella, if you know what I mean?

Hot. Humid. And Hillary.

Story of my life.

Oh, you're so tenacious!  Ouch!  Stop!  Okay!

Except. . .all of your links are to hateful articles by men.

But really, no need to go searching again on my account.  Really.

No, I mean it.

Really. laugh

No, I'm not done yet.  You want to see ugly stuff?  This is ugly stuff.

You want more?  This is ugly stuff.

And this.

I'm sick of this shit and so is Hillary and so is every woman alive.  We've all been through ugly stuff, mostly from men who think it's okay to demean us and to treat us like we don't have a right to the space we inhabit.  

So why are you arguing with me about how Hillary was treated?  Do you really think I don't get it?

Somehow I think you miss that just because you were reasonable as were your friends, that didn't define the ecosystem. It wasn't just TPM, it wasn't Republicans - there was more venom from Democrats than elsewhere. Many women were turned off, but some joined in, and then we got the old feminists vs. new rainbow feminists split. And then after she conceded in June there was another round of how useless/talentless she was and why wouldn't she go away and how could she expect to get offered anything by Obama and her/Bill would destroy the party at the convention.

I doubt that many people were still underestimating her after she'd had a couple of years in the Senate under her belt.  Clearly, she was as qualified as anybody else on the stage during the debates, and held her own up there.

She got 50% of the vote, so obviously a lot were convinced, including many who opposed her. But there was a very vocal contingent including some females - "I'm a woman so I can call her a bitch" - spouting that she only got anywhere because of Bill.

And I remember 1 long debate with Democratic women about how she had insufferably tarnished herself by not divorcing Bill over his transgressions.  Hard to reconcile that with the "tolerant" party.

Mona, please don't take the bait.

I think Ramona's old enough without a chaperone, but her call.

You're never too old for quality chaperoning.

And at $49.95/hour, Quinn's Chaperoning is a Quality Service. 

And as a special, for very close friends only, I'll throw in Quinn's Unwonted Sexual Advances, at just $7.95/yard. 

That's a running yard, by the way. None of that metric nonsense.

I will say that in some New York political circles they felt that Hillary just swooped in to the grab the seat, pushing aside some others who were in line, e.g., Lowey.

To be sure, Hillary's fame, however you want to define it, DID help her win the seat. It always does. She was barely a New York resident at the time, as I recall.

I wasn't begrudging this - she was a carpetbagger and rightfully had to prove herself on the issues both in NYC and upstate. 

But I've seen thousands of comments about how Hillary wouldn't get anywhere without Bill, even after her Senate career, including people who thought it was ridiculous to give her the Secretary of State job. 

Of course name recognition helped her, but she was an upper classman to Bill at Yale, had the more promising career out of Law School (e.g. Watergate committee), paid the bills as a lawyer while he was a failed politician in Arkansas and helped with the continual campaigning. They built their careers together - this wasn't Ann Romney counting the money & taking care of the kids and horse at home.

She had/has tons of talents, smarts, drive.

She would've gone places on her own.

They were and are a team, from all I've heard.

And she worked when she became Senator and kept a low, non-celebrity profile and has been very successful as SecState.

 I agree that Hillary is smart, talented, energetic, loyal to the President, a team player, and would have gone places on her own had she never met Bill.  Serious question though: I suppose not being nearly as bad as the previous few is something to be happy about but can you name some significant accomplishments she can claim as Secretary of State? Not having the Republicans scream for her replacement is hardly a positive for her resume.

A landmark treaty or agreement?

The negotiation of the end of a war?

No, I can't.

I assume she played a big role in Libya and with the stepping down of Mubarak.

She seems to be everywhere trying to crack some tough nuts, which is an achievement of a kind. Maybe her wins are more behind the scenes, process wins, relationship- building, avoiding war with Iran (thus far) wins. Not so obvious to the public.

Good question. I guess we'd have to define what counts as an "accomplishment."

It would be interesting to look back and see how many SecStates have clear, concrete accomplishments to boast of and how important those are to their being seen as "successes."

Maybe just avoiding another Iraq is a blessing-:)

I assume she played a big role in Libya and with the stepping down if Mubarak.

  That seems to assume that State Department policy towards those countries, beginning with her tenure, could be called an [good] accomplishment for the interests of our country and that she actually had strong influence over the formulation of that policy.

 Maybe so, but it is far from obvious to me.

I don't think we really wanted Mubarek out - the "devil you know" & stability - and when we gave him the shove, we had his #2 step into place.

For what Hillary's done, I think she's managed pretty competently. As for us showing some humanitarian or enlightened foreign policy the past 3 1/2 years, haven't seen one. Building up a more militarized State Department? Uh, yeah, didn't think we needed a new dept to spend defense money. Guess getting the blind dissident out of China, maybe slapping down Putin once. Would like to see more of a full court press on friendliness, assistance, positive diplomacy.

I was lukewarm on Libya, and I still don't see it setting precedent except we're doing a covert CIA job in Syria - not the Arab Spring we had at the beginning. Wish she'd accepted Wikileaks as a glass half-full. How much to blame Obama, how much Hillary for this muddled mess? Wish I knew.

The only friend worth having is a heavily-armed friend, I say.

All together now, let us sing, "What a friennnnnnnnnnd we have in Jesus....."

Amen. Pass the drones.

You're right about that, Peter, but I thought we were talking here about her presidential run.

Actually, to stay strictly on topic, it was about Obama taking command, not about Hillary's run at all. Tangent conversations, like shit, just happens. 

Just shows the power of Hillary.  lol

Pew found equal modest "bounces" for both, with Obama's speech viewed a little more positively than Romney's after both were done.

http://www.people-press.org/2012/09/10/democratic-convention-highlights-...

Their polls are interesting on the conventions' popularity contests. Clinton was the one who won the convention popularity contest, 29% of watchers said he was the highlight, and 36% of the Dems. Clint Eastwood at the GOP was second with 19% of all watchers and 20% of the Repubs saying he was the highlight.

The candidates themselves came in behind and nearly equal. Mitt Romney's speech was considered the highlight by 17% of all watchers and 25% of Repubs.  Barack Obama's speech was considered the highlight by 16% of all watchers and 24% of the Dems.


In all, their summary at the link gives me a bad sense that it's still a "none of the above" election where people say right now that they are decided and will vote but many of those may not bother to turn out to vote after all.

Pew's data don't match either Gallup or Rasmussen, or the average of polls.  When the averages don't match, it's not that useful to rely on the internals of the outlier, IMO.  

There are very concrete measures of likelihood to vote, and they tend to favor Republicans.  The interesting question is whether the Dems closed that gap even modestly.  It was the evident purpose of their convention, aside from selling the President's candidacy.

Back to Pew's numbers, there are some points of interest.  The net-positive would be worth a lot more on Eastwood -- having a significant negative valence for a convention speech says something, given that most people who watch are friendlies.  The idea that both sets of watchers liked their candidates roughly equally doesn't say much.  In favor of the Republicans, you see that Ryan was a big piece for them, Biden not so for the Democrats.  That has some meaning, I think.  Michelle Obama had significantly higher importance on the Democratic side than Ann Romney or any female in the RNC.  That has some meaning too. 

But Clinton's crushingly positive numbers amount to another way of saying what everyone is saying, which is that his speech was the highlight of both weeks.  He was a good part of the bounce, though I think it's a lot more complex than that.  

In the end, I think the election does boil down to people who don't favor either candidate, but Romney would need to win them all.  Undecideds tend to behave like one tribe or the other, and the reality is that the Republicans should have had more of those folks in tow already, and that their tribe has greater solidarity but also firmer boundaries, which does not suggest that the last 6% will break their way 5-1 or 6-0, and probably not better than half.  Based on this week's polling, assuming the Obama bounce subsides a bit, which I definitely think it will, Obama doesn't need nearly half of the last 5% to break for him.

In a great example of silly polling, Civitas shows Romney up 10 in NC after his convention.  Click through to the internals, which show Obama winning the black vote 66/30.  In 2008, NC black vote was about 98/2.  Reallocate it accordingly, consistent with Civitas concluding that 21% of NC voting pool is black, and you get Obama up 49-47.

 

And today's numbers are:

Gallup now gives the president a seven-point lead in their tracking poll: 50 - 43. And the approval numbers are now above 50 percent:

laugh

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