Wolraich: Obama at the Gates of... Gates
Dr. C: In Praise of Writing Binges
Maiello: Gatsby Doesn't Grate
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Wolraich: Obama at the Gates of... Gates Dr. C: In Praise of Writing Binges Maiello: Gatsby Doesn't Grate |
Blowing |
For two years, the prehistory of this race was one of Bush-Kerry -- an incumbent during war with a middling economy, a firm base, a modest deficit with independents, a middling flip-flopping opponent with big hair from Massachusetts, and just enough popular desire to stay the course to win a narrow re-election. The race now looks a bit more like Bush-Gore: it is rational to think that the Democrat might win the Electoral College and lose the popular vote, the Republican electoral path is narrower, but the Republican candidate has surprising momentum through the debate cycle and heading toward the wire. I still see President Obama's re-election as likely, but I am downgrading the probability of his winning from 80% to roughly 65%, as a result of the week's events. This piece explains why I still predict the President's re-election, and the reasons my confidence is not higher.
A Big Week For Obama Yields No Gains
With seventeen days left in this Presidential election, there is ample cause for concern in both the Obama and Romney camps. I am still of the view that President Obama is likely to be re-elected, but the probability of his re-election has slipped modestly in the last week, as his clear debate victory over Mitt Romney (barely reported on as such), led to a week of stabilization of the race with a razor-thin advantage for Obama. When I wrote last week that I saw an 80% chance of an Obama win (a very bullish assertion), I rested that in part on my prediction of future events. Specifically, I foresaw President Obama coming out with a great debate performance, which I thought would lead to a 2-3 point move in the national polls, essentially erasing half or so of Mitt Romney's post-Denver gains.
I was half right. The President, derided by his haters as a weak debater, delivered a virtuoso performance, and won the debate handily. While CNN scored it a 7% victory, that poll was skewed in favor of Republican opinion, as CNN sampled debate watchers weighted according to who watched, and not according to likely voters, who are 4% more Democratic and 4% less Republican than their sample. Assuming the Democrats were 3/1 for Obama and Republicans 3/1 claiming Romney won (an assumption borne out, for example, in PPP's Ohio polling released today), CNN's 46-37 was more like a 49-34. Polls of independent voters tended to show the President winning by 15-20 points. Not Denver, but bad for Mitt Romney.
For whatever reason, and there are many interesting reasons you could postulate, the debate this week did not have much effect on the national and state polling. (While beyond the scope of today's piece, here are some hypotheses to chew on: (1) the media didn't really seize on the idea that Obama won despite supportive polling, after they spent ten days after Denver coronating Romney; (2) the primary value of the debate was to see if Romney could appear plausible as President to persuadable voters, and he did; (3) first impressions matter more; (4) Obama by silence in Denver has conceded the validity of some of Romney's more insupportable policy proposals, or has treated the 47% issue as unimportant; or (5) the impression of momentum in polling and media accounts has made Romney seem the winner in media narratives, and while Obama in September was "winning" the battle of seeming ahead, Romney has now overwritten that narrative with a triumphalist narrative of his momentum that is feeding enthusiasm for him.)
The national tracking polls are little affected. Obama leads by 3 instead of 1 in IBD, is down 1 instead of 2 in Rasmussen, while Gallup has gotten too silly to discuss seriously in this piece. The state polls are consistent with a picture in which Obama has a 2 point or so lead, but not more. They have been mixed this week, and it is hard for either camp to claim significant momentum in the handful of still-relevant states. President Obama seems to hold narrow leads in three of these states, Governor Romney leads in two, and two cannot be described as leaning either way.
The President's Base Is 243 EV, Governor Romney's Is 206.
To see where the race is right now, we need to rule out states that aren't really in play. There are 43 of them. In particular, Nevada is a state that has moved modestly further toward President Obama, where he consistently leads by 3 or so in polls. Because Romney has led in one poll all year (a Republican-funded poll), because the numbers are so rigid and consistent, and because Senator Reid in 2010 and candidate Obama in 2008 so far outperformed the polls, I class Nevada as safe for President Obama. In the past I have counted President Obama's base as the Kerry states plus New Mexico. While New Mexico remains solid, New Hampshire and Wisconsin do not, as discussed below. Additionally, while there is no dispute that Mitt Romney has made significant gains in Pennsylvania, he has also failed to compete or spend any money there, and the average of polls show him down there by 4-5. He will not win Pennsylvania, but he may greatly regret not competing there. (As an aside, I agree with Nate Silver that Pennsylvania was as good a place as Wisconsin for Romney to go on offense, given the Republican victory in the 2010 Senate cycle. Why Romney would pour money and organization into Nevada and Colorado, both of which chose Democratic Senators in 2010, but not Pennsylvania, which did not, escapes me.) Thus, President Obama's base consists of the Kerry states plus New Mexico and Nevada, less New Hampshire. This puts President Obama at 243. When one takes the seven states that remain in play -- Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Virginia, New Hampshire, and Florida -- the President's base is 243 EVs, while Governor Romney's base is 206 EVs. And yes, that means I do not think the President can win North Carolina.
The State of the Seven Relevant States: Obama's Tenuous Edge
In this section, I class states on a continuum from most likely to vote for President Obama to least. In order, they are: (1) Wisconsin (10 EVs); (2) Iowa (6 EVs); (3) Ohio (18 EVs); (4) Colorado (9 EVs); (5) New Hampshire (4 EVs); (6) Virginia (13 EVs); and (7) Florida (29 EVs). As you can see in looking at this ordering, and also at Obama's base of 243 EVs, the first obvious point is that it is hard for President Obama to win without Ohio, and harder still to win without Ohio or Virginia, though very conceivable. As such, the fact that President Obama leads in Ohio, though very narrowly, bulks large in this analysis and in any assessment that President Obama's re-election is very likely. (If President Obama led meaningfully in Virginia, the odds would be just as favorable, but as discussed below, he does not.)
1. Wisconsin (85% probability of Obama win).
Wisconsin is performing much like it did in 2000 and 2004. In 2000, it went very narrowly for Al Gore in an election Gore won nationally by .5% of the popular vote. Gore won Wisconsin by .2% (5,700 votes), but would have won it handily but for the 3.6% siphoned off by Ralph Nader. In 2004, Wisconsin went for John Kerry by .4% (11,400 votes) in an election Kerry lost nationally by 2.4%. In both cases, Wisconsin was essentially 2-3 points more Democratic than the national trend. It is thus unsurprising that in September, Obama led there by more than 5 but less than 10 points, slightly stronger than nationally, or that Obama has led since Denver in Wisconsin polls by 2, 3, 2, 1, 6, and 2 without trailing once. These polls are highly consistent and suggest a narrow Obama victory. If that holds, Obama will have 253 EVs. It gets trickier from there.
2. Iowa (70% probability of Obama win).
Like its demographically similar Big 10 neighbor, largely rural and even whiter Iowa is performing much like 2000 and 2004, when it was narrowly with Gore, and then narrowly with Bush over Kerry. In both cases, Iowa had a narrowly Democratic lean, almost exactly like Wisconsin's. In 2000, Al Gore won Iowa by .3%, but the closeness was fake, because Nader took 2.2% of the vote, or Gore would have won by roughly 2%. In 2004, Bush beat Kerry by .7%, 1.7% below Bush's national margin of victory. In both cases, one can see a lean of 1.5-2% toward the Democratic ticket. President Obama's 9.6% victory in 2008 was 2.4% above the national trend.
Recent Iowa polling has favored Obama, but has been slightly more inconsistent and equivocal than that in Wisconsin. Since Denver, Obama has been +2, tied, +3, +8, and -1 (PPP). While the average of these numbers is almost exactly the same as Obama's recent Wisconsin polling, one of the results is a Romney lead of one point, and from PPP, a Democratic pollster, at that. Of equal or greater concern to me is that the Des Moines Register poll from the heart of Obama's post convention bounce only showed the President up 49-45. I will place great weight on the next Des Moines Register poll, and expect it to show in a range between Obama +1 and +3.
A final tool at our disposal in analyzing Iowa is reporting on the return of early ballots. As of yesterday, Democrats had pulled early ballots by a margin of 15% more than Republicans (45-30), and had returned them by a margin of 18% more than Republicans (48-30). While the Romney campaign is bragging about matching the Obama ground game, after the 2008 cycle, and in light of the early voting data, it appears that the Obama team is obtaining a small but potentially critical turnout advantage.
Summing these parts, I am fairly concerned about the PPP poll's finding that in Iowa and New Hampshire, and among a majority-female sample, Romney's favorability now exceeds the President's. That is not a statistic to freak out about; it can mean that there are more Democrats who approve of Romney generally but won't vote for him than there are Republicans approving of an incumbent Democratic President. The best thing I can say about the PPP poll is that it averages with other Iowa polls showing an Obama lead (and that if you use PPP in all swing states, Obama wins Ohio, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Colorado narrowly, which is another way of cautioning against cherry-picking this Iowa result and fixating on it unduly).
Whistling through the graveyard here, one would expect Obama to win Iowa narrowly, as Gore did and Kerry almost did despite a 2.4% deficit nationally. This should give Obama 259 EVs.
3. Ohio (65% probability of Obama victory)
If Ohio doesn't make you nervous, you're not paying attention to the data, or not interested in either Obama or Romney winning. There are good reasons here for both to fret. President Obama is in the lead, but that lead is small and appears to be narrowing, without much more room to narrow. Here, Ohio is performing more like it did in 2004 (as a neutral or Democratic-leaning state) and not 2000 or 2008. In 2004, John Kerry lost Ohio by 2.1%, representing a mild (0.3%) overperformance for him in relation to his national loss of 2.4%. In 2000 and 2008, by contrast, Democrats Gore and Obama underperformed their national trends by 4.0% (Gore losing by 3.5%), and 2.6% (Obama winning by 4.6%).
Romney should be very worried, because it is hard to interpret the polls other than showing a narrow Obama lead. In the last week, Obama has led by 3 in SurveyUSA, up 2 from the week previous, has led by 3 from FOX, has led by 1 in Rasmussen (for the fourth poll in a row!) and led in PPP by 1, down from 5 in the week previous, and is tied in Gravis (up 1 from 10 days ago). Ohio is very heavily polled, and the weight of the polling is a narrow Obama lead. Romney should also be worried because PPP and SurveyUSA are both finding that one in five likely voters have voted, and that Obama is rolling up a large plurality (ranging from 58-38 to 76-24 depending on the sample. In a close race, the ground game is likely to make the difference. Obama has also outspent Romney there.
Other trends should worry Obama. His lead is arguably slipping a bit. Romney has narrow edges among independents there, consistent with his national leadership among independents since Denver. Ohio has mirrored the swing among largely white independent voters toward Romney in Iowa and New Hampshire, but with what seems to be a bit of a harder floor for Obama in that white vote. From those trends, one could see the data to this point consistent with Romney eking out a victory in a virtual tie, or Obama holding on by up to 3. Barring a further late shift against him nationally, Obama is the narrow favorite in Ohio, and thus to win the Presidency again. This would give Obama 278 EVs, and would allow him (in combination with winning any other state below) to lose Wisconsin to Romney.
4. Colorado (60% probability of Obama victory)
I am slightly more bullish on Colorado than is Nate Silver. Nate views it as essentially a jump ball, while I think Obama has the edge. Obama leads among independents there per PPP, and has led among PPP, Gravis, and Rasmussen since the Denver debate. Other than ARG, Romney has not pulled better than a +1 in three weeks. But my stronger feeling about Colorado rests upon the 2010 swing and miss by all pollsters in Nevada and Colorado (overpredicting Republican vote share). Obama led handily in most of August and September, the Romney surge has brought Romney to rough parity, and the twin forces of the Obama ground game and poll undersampling of Latino voters makes me think Obama will beat his poll numbers by a point or two. Put another way, if Michael Bennet won Colorado in the 2010 electorate, Barack Obama should win in 17 days.
Colorado, in combination with Iowa and Wisconsin, would give Obama 268 EVs, leaving Obama one state (Ohio, New Hampshire, or Virginia) from winning.
5. New Hampshire (50% probability of Obama victory)
New Hampshire is the key to an Obama victory without Ohio or Virginia. It narrowly tilted Democratic in 2000 and 2004, opting for Bush over Gore but would not have if one reallocated one-third of the Nader vote to Gore, and opting for Kerry when Kerry lost nationally. Combined with running 2 points above margin for Obama in 2008, New Hampshire has been consistently about a +2% state for Democrats, which should make Obama a narrow favorite.
Despite that fact, the last six polls (excluding high and low) amount to a tie -- Rasmussen and Suffolk both showed the race tied, and Rasmussen and PPP have since shown it +1 for Obama and Romney respectively.
Several considerations seem to have caught up to President Obama in the Granite State after he led there most of the year. For one, New Hampshire, unlike Ohio and Wisconsin, is not predominantly white -- it is essentially entirely white. Without a margin of black voters who poll at or above 90-10 for Obama, New Hampshire's polls are swingier. New Hampshire is also legendarily independent in its politics, although you wouldn't know it from the strong continuity among its choices in the last three Presidential elections. President Obama's post-Denver slide with white independent voters has hurt him more in New Hampshire and Iowa, both of which show +1 for Romney in PPP polls.
The bottom line with New Hampshire is that Obama could win without Ohio by stitching together his base (243 EVs) + Wisconsin (10 EVs) + Iowa (6 EVs), Colorado (9 EVs), and New Hampshire (4 EVs). The problem with this kind of thinking is that if Obama is performing well enough with white independents to win New Hampshire, where he appears tied today, he should have hung on in Ohio to begin with. For this reason, the primary path back to the White House for Obama is base + Ohio + almost anything else OR base + Virginia + almost anything else. Which leads us to...
6. Virginia (40% probability of Obama victory)
Polls are wonderful. With their aid, you can see very clearly that President Obama is either ahead or behind in Virginia. If you believe PPP and Quinnipiac, Obama is ahead by 3, 2, or 5 since Denver. If you believe NBC/WSJ/Marist, Rasmussen, or ARG, Romney is up 1, 2, 3, or 1. (For some reason, RealClearPolitics does not list the PPP survey released on 10/20 showing Obama up 2 in its average of polls. If it did, Obama would lead. C'est la vie.) Nate Silver shows the tiniest of advantages to Romney in Virginia. The aforementioned Suffolk declared it would no longer poll Virginia, since Obama could not win it, which is hilariously and illogically triumphalist. At any rate, there is no dispute that Obama led in Virginia all year, and that Romney's Denver debate-driven surge has made the race virtually even.
I tend to think Romney is ahead by a point or two, because the polls showing him ahead are very consistent with each other, Quinnipiac has run high for Obama throughout the fall, and Rasmussen (which shows Romney up here) has shown decent numbers for Obama in Iowa, Ohio, and New Hampshire, not ahead of or behind trends there.
The thing to keep in mind about Virginia is that it gives more reason for hope than New Hampshire. As I explained above, New Hampshire is a state Obama can easily win, but he will probably win it if he has won Ohio and doesn't really need it. Put another way, given its electorate and the last several polls, New Hampshire correlates positively with Obama already winning, while Virginia is likely determined somewhat more independently. Why? For one thing, Obama won it by 6 points in 2008, a slightly stronger performance than in Ohio. For another, Obama has maintained a strong ground game in the state, and the state Democratic Party is turning out voters well for Tim Kaine. Finally, the African-American population and the suburbs of NoVa have treated Obama well. This is a state with a different demography and argument from the bailout-driven, class narrative of Ohio. Obama may well win Virginia and lose Ohio.
If Obama wins Virginia, he has (with his base) 256 EVs, and could win with any of (1) Ohio and nothing else; (2) Wisconsin and either Iowa, Colorado, or New Hampshire; or (3) Colorado and Iowa. Given all of these different combinations, the fact that Virginia runs on a modestly different algorithm from Ohio is good for Obama, creating a second, plausible path to victory, albeit one that requires him to overperform (or shift) polls by 1-2 points.
7. Florida (25% probability of Obama victory)
Good news and bad news. The good news is that with his base of 243 EVs, Obama winning Florida's 29 EVs ends the election right there. The bad news is that Obama has fallen further behind in Florida than in Virginia, making that outcome (though determined somewhat independently of Ohio, as evidenced by Obama's differential slide in the polls there) pretty unlikely.
It is true that Obama pulled a +1 in SurveyUSA in Florida earlier today. Despite that, Romney looks to be ahead by 2 in Florida while Obama leads by 2 in Iowa, Wisconsin, and Ohio. Florida thus almost certainly cannot be the tipping point state (Nate has it ninth). It is nice to see Nate in his October 20 piece accepting the thought he rejected a week ago but which I stated here then, that Romney has gained more in Florida than other states for some reason. The race is close enough that if Florida polls are undersampling Latino or black voters, Obama could still win the state, but the reality is that if Obama wins Florida, he will have won a combination of the foregoing states rendering it irrelevant. Florida is the state that would allow Obama to claim a mandate by getting around 330 EVs on a night toward the higher end of his possible performances.
Let us not speak of it again.
Conclusion: Obama Still Has More Paths Than Does Romney, and a 1-1.5% Margin of Popular Vote to Burn and Still Win
There are three paths to an Obama victory: Ohio and almost anything; Virginia and almost anything; and the base + Iowa, Colorado, Wisconsin, and New Hampshire. Of these three paths, the first seems more likely than not (60% likely); the second is plausible and modestly differently determined, providing a further chance for the President, and the third path is highly improbable. The probability of Obama successfully traversing any of these three paths (and of an Obama win in Florida) will vary based upon trends in the overall numbers. The reason Obama is the favorite is that the numbers very modestly favor him in Iowa and Wisconsin, and he has the better case for Ohio, and a jump ball in Virginia. Romney cannot split these; he almost certainly needs them both.
Accordingly, Romney probably needs another 1-2 point move in the national polls before he can be classed as a favorite. And for that reason as well, I believe that the over-under in the national popular vote representing the vote-share at which Obama wins is actually 1-1.5% below Romney's. That is, based on the polling in these seven states and where they stand in relation to the national trend, Romney has to win the popular vote by 1-1.5%, or he will lose anyway. Mark it down.
Even by the standards of the TED conference, Henry Markram’s 2009 TEDGlobal talk was a mind-bender. He took the stage of the Oxford Playhouse, clad in the requisite dress shirt and blue jeans, and announced a plan that—if it panned out—would deliver a fully sentient hologram within a decade. He dedicated himself to wiping out all mental disorders and creating a self-aware artificial intelligence. And the South African–born neuroscientist pronounced that he would accomplish all this through an insanely ambitious attempt to build a complete model of a human brain—from synapses to hemispheres—and simulate it on a supercomputer. Markram was proposing a project that has bedeviled AI researchers for decades, that most had presumed was impossible. He wanted...
This has to be David Bowie's proudest moment, pending the manned Mars expedition.
By Aamer Madhani, USA Today, May 19, 2013
President Obama on Sunday told the graduating class at Morehouse College, the country's pre-eminent historically black college, there is "no time for excuses" for this generation of African-American men and that it was time for their generation to step up professionally and in their personal lives.
[....] The president connected his own path to the White House to the work of King and other African-American leaders of that generation. But Obama also conceded that at times as a young man he wrongly blamed his own failings "as just another example of the world trying to keep a black man down."
"We've got no time for excuses — not because the bitter legacies...
Prompted by Peggy Noonan's claim in The Wall Street Journal that "we are in the midst of the worst Washington scandal since Watergate," Andrew Sullivan steps forward to defend Pres. Obama's honor. "Can she actually believe this?," he asks incredulously.
I voted for Obama last election but will not be voting for him again. The country is simply not going in the right direction. I think Mr. Romney has the experience to get the job done. Mr Obama still has not laid out a plan of what he would do with another 4 years, which tells me his plan is to keep the status quo, I don't see that helping to put 24 million people back to work.
with you.
Not voting again for this guy!
DITTO!
Obummer will make Jimmy Carter feel good about himself again.
Great analysis, but ignores the following inconvenient truths:
-the Ohio polls showing Obama up by 2.5% on average - are on average D+5.5%. This assumes at least 2008 D advantage vs R - this is fantasyland. Versus 2008, the Pubs have more enthusiasm (not suffering Bush fatigue, and the Dems have less enthusiasm - youth vote won't be fooled again
-the Ohio polls also assumed 2008 Dem early voting advantage (which was +30%). This time around Dem early voting advantage looks like +7%. This makes a big difference to the polls
-Romney leads by +8% with the Indies in Ohio
-the undecideds will break 60% for the challenger
So, Ohio is 50/50! I have not analyzed Wisconsin, but I think it's similar! This race is really jump ball right now, and Obummer does not have an advantage.
Also forgot to mention, PPP just came out with Ohio results showing Obama only up +1%. This is a D+8% poll. Give me a break. That means Romney has won this poll by a landslide!
Anonymous - why are you afraid to identify yourself?
My name is Korak Mitra. Thanks for asking
In fairness to you, both commenters in asking that were being unfair. The site does not ask or require you to self-identify, and their question is not appropriate, in my view.
Actually, PPP has not been significantly Obama-leaning recently. It is not a sound argument when your candidate trails narrowly in five polls to say he leads because one of the pollsters is biased. By that standard, Obama leads in Florida. Likely neither your theory nor that one is true.
Obummer. Clever! But are you one Anonymous or all three? if you have such convictions, how about at least making up a screen name? Then we can get into what you're seeing in Romney that seems to be missing here.
Can hardly wait. Specifics, please.
My name is Korak Mitra. Thanks for asking.
Democratic ground game has moved the registrations in Ohio under Obama. Are you claiming FoxNews oversamples Dems? Seems obviously wrong.
PPP and SUSA are showing bigger early vote edge for Dems, you keep taking the data and gifting yourself margins that aren't there.
Your remarks on WI are more of the same. Obama led in every post-Denver poll. How is that even?
President Kerry did great with independent voters too.
Emm, I was mistaken about this PPP poll (just came out) being at D+8, it is actually at D+5, similar to the average.
Here is the breakdown of the others:
-Fox D+8
-Rasmussen - Even
-Survey USA D+7
-Gravis D+3
-Marist/ABC D+11
-ARG D+9
-CNN D+2
What does it indicate that Ras is even in party affiliation and shows Obama up 1? The average of these polls is a small Obama lead in a state where the D/R margin is higher. Seems reasonable to me. Party affiliation is the tail in the polls, not the dog. The party affiliation average among those you cite is sensible. You cannot use those wedges to reverse-engineer toplines beyond the range of each poll; that makes no sense.
I don't think the author's analysis has addressed the issues of the aggregate polls oversampling Dems/ assuming higher turnout for Dems than will happen, ignoring the undecideds and how they historically break, ignoring the gynormous swing in Indy support for Obama, etc.
But what I think is irrelevant. I am not trying to convince anyone.
That's why we have elections.
You're moving off the point. Your polls are sampling the public randomly and finding wide ranges of variance of how Democratic they are. This is normal. The average lean is not +8 D, it is lower. And Obama leads in those polls, and obviously leads the early voting big. Those votes are, of course, in the election, which is about 25% over in Ohio right now.
Korak Mitra (if that is your real name) - you may well be right, Romney might win. Such a "victory" would be a terrible loss for America. Why do you support 1) tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, 2) privatizing healthcare for seniors, 3) eliminating tax breaks that help middle-income Americans, 4) further deregulatiion of Wall Street crooks and carbon energy extractors, and, inter alia, 5) somebody whose extraordinary wealth was accrued by off-shoring jobs, loading companies with debt, gutting worker's compensation, and putting truly small businesses out of business? Perhaps you could point to a country or society that has followed the Romney/Ryan recipe successfully?
I doubt your real name is KRXA Hal, so good for engaging specifics with our visitor, but lay off the name thing, please.
A - in fairness to you, I was about to write that I am very easily identifiable by simply googling KRXA Hal. (Indeed, my full name, phone number, and work address pop up in the first answer to the search request.) Whereas I was skeptical that anything would turn up if I googled Korak Mitra - my Western Euro-American chauvinism rearing its ugly head - the name just didn't seem real to me. But before posting, I thought, I better google Korak Mitra, and guess what? Mr. Mitra's facebook page was one of the first results. So, Korak Mitra I apologize for expressing doubt that you provided us with a real name.
Now, Articleman, with respect to your point that people don't have to identify themselves when posting at Dagblog. Certainly that's true. But, I want to clarify that I did not write that Korak Mitra was wrong to post as anonymous. I merely asked why he was afraid to identify who he was. Moreover, I believe that this is an eminently fair question. I think that people are far more likely to discourse reasonably when their identities are known.
He was making arguments, and is 100% welcome to do so. You wouldn't have asked a commenter with whom you agreed that question. I disagree.
People are welcome to be anonymous. I don't use my real name because I don't want anyone googling my name or drawing more conclusions than my posts allow. I might be a Senator or a swamp kitten - doesn't change what I write. "Afraid"? I think it's as much just uncomfortable dealing with internet jerks who can make your real life unpleasant for no good reason.
People are far more likely to discourse reasonably when they have something real to say, not when they're playing 20 questions with identities, drawing false conclusions or stereotypes from someone's background, judging based on a name or profession rather than what one just said.
Dogs and kids seem to make friends without having formal introductions. Try it - just sniff around rather than searching for a preconceived notion.
Senator, eh? Suddenly a whole lot of things make sense.
We should start up a pool as to which one.
I'm putting $50 on Vitter. Don't ask me why.
Hell, if you have $50 we should talk...
Never ceases to amaze how the wingnuts have such selective memories, they used to dump on Clinton, hell, the GOP impeached him for trifles, now Clinton is a smart guy, a non-Obama, and they have to trash Jimmy Carter. Carter, who made peace between Israel and Egypt. Carter, one of the most respected, active and sought after international diplomacy experts in the world.
Expunged completely from their memories, almost like one of those neutralizer beams from Men in Black, is any recollection of their Great War President George W. Bush and the military and economic catastrophes he took this nation into under his Decidership.
Now they can't wait to put the same neo-con crackpots back in power, led by a well heeled Wall Street swindler in an empty etch-a-sketch suit, who wants to kick everyone's and every nation's ass except for those of his buddies on Wall Street, whose damage to this country was only exceeded by the last Republican administration.
Not sure who is the wingnut, but Carter is considered one of the worst Presidents by historians. As you might recall he had double digit inflation and very high unemployment (called the misery index). He created enormous gas lines for extended periods. And he had allowed Iran to make a laughingstock of the US, and allowed them to keep dozens of our US citizens in captivity for over 1 year. The American people made the judgment by voting him out and Reagan in by the biggest landslide in American history. All of these are just facts, not wingnut imagination. So the reference to Carter as a benchmark for bad President is pretty straightforward.
I think Obummer is in the same class, given that he added $5 Trillion to the deficit (more than any other President, including Shrub who had 8 years with the credit card). For that $5 Trillion, Obummer has more people looking for work now than the day he took office (23 million). He has created GDP growth of about 1.2% per year now, which has been trending down (was about 1.5% a couple of years ago). This GDP growth is about 40% of the 50 year US history average, and is about 25% of what a recovery period should look like. We have 15 million more people on foodstamps under Obummer, than when he took office. We have more people on long term unemployment (more than 1 year) than at any time in US history.
This would be bad enough if he had a plan, and it was getting better. It is not getting better. Besides playing with the unemployment numbers, Obummer added less people to the workforce (114,000) than he did just 6 months ago (150,000), which by the way is less than the increase in population (which is 150,000). His GDP growth for the past 12 months is lower than the GDP growth over the previous 12 months.
Obummer's stated plan for the next 4 years is to grow the debt to $21 Trillion. This is 140% of the entire US economy, and gets us very close to Greece (which hit the wall at debt of 150% of GDP).
"Playing with the unemployment numbers"? Wow, I thought I was talking to an intelligent Romney guy for a minute. And that from a PPP = Teh Romney Leads! guy. Guess between that and the unfunded $5 Trillion tax cut, you know both bogus numbers and what it is to have no plan or agenda.
Dude, Bush (talk about Libyan security when you guys own the national defense briefing about al Qaeda and airplanes Bush ignored; bigger problem, no?) took us from surplus to a $1T deficit, Obama inherited two wars (one we never should have started, another we should have left) and economic collapse from Bush-Romney tax cut magical trickledownism, has improved unemployment, ended some war, and not increased the deficit as Bush did.
Does Romney favor the Blunt Amendment? Federal abortion ban? Where is he getting the 5 trillion? Your home mortgage deduction? That will favor the rich over the middle class, anyone can see that.
I would never claim to be an intelligent Romney guy.
I would never claim to be intelligent. Anyone who has to claim to be intelligent, is not.
I am certainly not a Romney guy. I am not a Pub. I voted for Obama in 2008. I am an Indie, who is financially conservative and socially liberal. I am not interested in litigating the Shrub years, I never liked the guy, did not understand what the f we were doing in Iraq and did not like it when he had the credit card.
All I know is, we have had 4 years of "not optimal" results. And there is no plan to fix it.
So, I am willing to bet on the other guy. I think there are a lot of other Americans like me. We will find out on Nov 7.
Claims of cooking the unemployment books are ludicrous. Puts you in there with 9/11 truthers on the grassy knoll.
If you don't want to litigate the Shrub years, as if Romney (17 of 24 foreign policy advisors from Bush-Cheney, Let Detroit Go Bankrupt, keep millionaire tax breaks, Medicare needs some privatizing) is anything but, then why must you argue for reliving them, but with no surplus to spend, and spending it on tax breaks and bellicosity we can't afford?
I do encourage you and all like-minded persons to show up and vote on November 7, then to return home to watch the news. Cheers.
Ok, I'll play even though I think you're just a republican troll. The "obummer" nonsense gives you away as well as the faux "news" talking points.
Obama does have many ideas to move the economy forward. His jobs bill is one, blocked by the senate where you need to have 60 votes to get anything done.
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/09/09/obamas-jobs-bill-a-reasonable-plan/
Now one might blame him for not ending the filibuster rule, though its up to the denate to do that. Do you support ending the filibuster rule in the senate?
Romney's economic plan is a 20% tax cut across the board with mythical closure of loopholes. Its mathematically impossible but let's pretend some new math is invented, arithimacaculalgebramathics, makes it possible.
First it wouldn't significantly help the economy. When taxes for the wealthy were at 70%and Reagan cut them it stimulated the economy. But as taxes get lower and lower there are diminishing returns from tax cuts. That's why Bush's massive tax cuts did little to stimulate the economy. All they do is add to the deficit.
Second there is no way that Romney will get his mythical plan through congress. There is no way either democrats or republicans are going to eliminate the home mortgage deduction or the charitable deduction, the two biggest chunks. Not. Going. To. Happen.
Back to the real world, there are not enough deductions that the wealthy take that could equal a 20% tax rate cut for all people. Three possibilities: Romney doesn't cut tax rates. So what's his plan for the economy then? Romney raises taxes on the middle class to give a tax break to the rich. Or Romney has a budget deficit larger than Obama's.
Personally, I don't think Romney will give a massive tax cut to the wealthy on the backs of the middle class. Too politically risky. Nor do I think he will pass the tax rate cuts and explode the deficit. I think he will just throw away his tax rate cut plan because it can't be made to work. So what's his plan again for fixing the economy?
The middle class will pay. The rich will get richer, and the middle class and the poor will pay. That is and always has been the Republican objective. It's all they know how to do. Money is power, and they want more of both for themselves and their billionaire supporters.
The Republicans cannot resist tax cuts. Romney will go along with making the Bush cuts permanent and expanding on them. It's the tax cuts create jobs mantra, it won't work. The deficit will rise dramatically, as the dollar sinks. Since raising taxes is not an option, cuts will be made to Medicaid, food stamps, Social Security and Medicare as a permanent 'emergency' measure. The budget/economy trajectory will be clear by 2016.
It's also possible the Republicans may send the health care system into collapse as Wall street drains money out of it, and funding is cut.
so playing with the unemployment numbers does not translate into "Obama told the BLS to fudge the numbers!". That is not necessarily how we got to the Loony Tunes result we have for September!
We added 114,000 jobs. This is less than the 150,000 people we added to the population. Yet the unemployment rate went down, not .1%, but .3%! Magically, 1 month before the election, the number went where it had not for 3.7 years!
The jobs added in the previous 4 months had averaged 120,000 jobs. Yet, the unemployment rate did not budge! This month, we add 114,000 jobs and it falls .3%.
I am no statistician or government bureaucrat. But I smell a rat!
So does Jack Welsh. He said (in a long WSJ article, not the short tweet), that he had reviewed a heck of a lot of businesses and saw no evidence of a significantly improving job market (which is what a .3% drop means!). I far trust Jack's business sense (I have been a business person for 30 years), than Obummer.
I refuse to speculate on how we ended up with the Loony Tunes situation we have, but I will bet any amount of money that the stats gets revised upwards after the election.
So sorry unemployment declined in all swing states yesterday! And sorry Iran is coming to the table. All these oppressive facts! Check out Krugman on Welch. Him telling you BLS cooked the books is like Bernie Madoff warning you about Ponzi schemes. Cute!
Don't worry, I won't accuse you of being an intelligent Obama guy. I am not sure you addressed anything but picked out the Jack Welsh reference with a Paul Krugman reference.
Please let me know how you explain 114,000 jobs caused a .3% drop in unemployment? I would love to hear a rational explanation.
Krugman referred to Welch's history of unusually smooth financial reports as CEO, resulting in adjustments after he departed, which is responsive to your hitching your wagon to that Looney Tunes nonsense.
As to the why of the numbers, here are some links in case your Google is broken.
And Romney's plan is...? Oh, that's right, do what the Tea Party tells him to do (for pay back for keeping quiet during his election campaign).
Enjoy your four years of nutty government.
Yeah, Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr Anonymous...I really believe that you voted for our President last time. Do you think you are posting to a bunch of turnips that just fell off of a truck? Because you're not. Oh, well. Have fun!
Woo hoo A-man, you really must be making a name for yourself. You're even starting to draw some republican trolls to try to discredit you. Good work!
not just any republican trolls ... syncophantic republican trolls!
I think that was screen one of the video game. I am waiting for the more facile pro-Romney interlocutors. If you know the game Punch Out, this was like boxing Glass Joe. Still waiting for Piston Hurricane.
To those who love America, the President owes a bravura performance in Boca after he let us down in Denver. One advantage that we do have, which Articleman touched on but did not highlight, is that the early voting in Iowa and Ohio appears to favor Obama rather strongly. This may give him a tiny cushion if his polling numbers roughly match Romney levels on election day.
Those are priced into polls already.
well, in Ohio Through Wednesday, however, the margin has narrowed: Democrats account for 36 percent of the early and absentee vote while Republicans make up for 29 percent. This is a 7% advantage, not the 30% advantage in 2008.
Somehow, I'm still a Kucinich guy..
Charlie Cook on Thursday was thinking similar to you but with a different result:
The Possibility of a Popular, Electoral Vote Split is Very Real:
Don’t be too surprised if Romney wins the popular vote but loses the Electoral College in this presidential race.
Also, if you didn't see this, it might interest you:
Google’s Crystal Ball
By Seth Stephens-Davidowitz @ NYT
This from that surprised me with the size of the number:
I was struck by what seemed to be over reporting of early Obama voting in one ppp poll, but the next one seemed to even it out. There are lots of things like that, most minor from what I can tell.
I think the state v national poll debate will settle with Obama's ground game having moved OH, NV, CO, and maybe VA a point or two from where they would lie on the curve. I have seen that consistently over time. To me the question is whether Romney can win nationally by 2. I doubt it.
There's a small part of me that would like to see Romney win the popular vote and Obama win the electoral vote. Yeah I know it would be bad for America. But the nasty part of me wants to throw Bush/Gore up in their faces for 4 years.
I have reconsidered and think it's okey dokey. Both sides do stupid conspiracy theories anyway, this one will be close and we'll hear all that whining either way. If Obama wins, that is better than Romney winning.
Fair and square is what matters, and it matters enormously, but losing the popular vote does not make the outcome less fair or square. I'd love for Obama to win fairly by 20 points, but he won't, and if he wins there will be stupid arguments to delegitimize him (as there have been since 2008 anyway), so I see no reason to wring our hands if we win that way. God knows the GOP didn't, and won't if Romney does.
Looking at the picture of Gore & Bush that NJ used on Charlie's article made me think of last night's debate sketch on SNL (which I also enjoyed a great deal, BTW), so I just watched it again, available here:
http://www.eonline.com/news/355810/tom-hanks-pops-up-on-saturday-night-l...
And I don't know if they influence things at SNL like they once did, but yup, the general juju that the sketch casts is the same for me. And I came out thinking this second watch that Obama should be careful not to roll his eyes and sigh tomorrow night......
(Oh, besides starting to get the the candidates down much better, they also did a great job caricaturing several Long Island stereotypes with the questioners, including Tom Hanks.)
Gore's 2000 debate performance was atrocious. Obama's bounce back in debate two at minimum demonstrates that he can listen to and learn from others in this space. Gore either got bad advice or was serially uncoachable, or both.
Context please. Gore was butchered for saying he showed up at a specific FEMA response - the main point was accurate, including a year when there were 4 hurricanes in Florida in 1 month - but he was trashed because on that 1 trip the details were slightly wrong.
Gore was trashed from the previous debate for talking about a kid standing in a classroom - accurate, the priniciple lied to cover it up.
And then the press trashed Gore for those horrible sighs - much worse than say a Social Security and tax plan that didn't add up.
The Republicans and the "liberal media" and I suppose liberals themselves just kept making up the "serial exaggerator" Al Gore, and he was damned if he reacted, damned if he didn't.
Try this horrible biased question to end debate 2 (may Jim Lehrer spend the rest of his career interviewing boy bands). Think of it as the "Mr. Bush, we understand you've said your opponent sucks large donkey dicks - do you think this disqualifies him from being President? should voters be worried about someone engaging in animal fellatio?" top-notch journalism PBS is famous for:
The exercise is what it is. Gore gave away the Presidency by acting like a jerk and elevating a far-less bright and knowledgeable guy. Gore was actually solid in the third debate, but he lost the first two more than Bush won them or the media helped Bush.
Gore should have had as a principal goal lancing his reputation for pomposity and the exaggerated reports of his supposed tendency to exaggerate. He fed at least the former problem, and seemed never to have seen video of himself.
While I have never written about it here, I have coached a Senate candidate for a debate, coached a lot of debate, study debates, and am a trial lawyer. My individual view is that Gore gave away the Presidency by acting like a jerk. That will always be my view.
Errmmm... * cough * Nader * cough *
I think you count that too..... ;-)
If your election plans don't account for voter preference and exercise of democracy, probably your plans are a bit off the rails.
Nader votes were trivial - there were other places to make up those votes.
To be sure, Nader cost Gore the Presidency. Cost him NH and FL. Came within a razor of handing him WI and IA. Shift 15,000 or so votes, and Bush wins 287-251 or so, for how trivial Nader was. Indeed, Nader is lucky that didn't happen.
Gore still could have won by more than .5% even despite Nader, and thus won the Electoral College, had he performed better. But even eye rolling Gore would have won but for Uncle Ralph. Wonder if Nader's ever been to Iraq.
Then you can also blame it more on those stay-at-home voters who were much more numerous than Nader's supporters.
My point again is, people have a right to be unhappy with Gore or Obama, and vote that way, and the politicians should calculate that into their election campaign to overcome those numbers.
I'm entirely uncomfortable with saying that people have to buy into the 2-choice only system just because candidates or their party or their supporters run a bad campaign. The New York Times and Washington Post took more votes away from Gore through incessant lies over 2 years than Nader took away by presenting an opinion.
And lies about Benghazi and trashing of Susan Rice could potentially give Romney the foreign bump he needs and give him the election - a factor of the media that we're not fighting back against with well thought-out responses and coordination, not of those voters who are simply unhappy with Obama and voting their opinion.
(Obama does seem to be doing a very good ground game in contested states - outnumbering Romney 3:1 in many cases. Why don't we have a similar "ground game" for Sunday morning talk shows and such, getting the arguments simplified and presented well for a change?)
You're missing the point. The New York Times didn't run in Florida, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Iowa against Gore. Nader did. Of course those voters had the right to vote for him, and he had the right to run. Had he stood down, Gore would have won the election. To say that's not true would be fatuous, and talking around it doesn't matter. Was Nader not worth 7,000 votes in NH or 537 in FL? You can't suggest otherwise.
Yes, Nader made a difference, and had he stepped down, likely most of those votes would have gone to Gore.
This is of course partly hindsight - the Democrats also didn't see effects of mass black voter disenfranchisement, butterfly ballots, questionable overseas ballots...
And of course as an alternative to Nader just stepping down, Gore & friends might have done a better job persuading Nader supporters that he was listening to them.
In short, yeah, mathematically we can say "hey, that would have made the difference". In practice, we have a democratic system so people's voices are heard, and there are alternatives to just shutting up those voices to get in line & be team players.
Maybe Bradley could have done a better job persuading his supporters to get behind Gore, perhaps not ruling out the VP position so quickly. (I was extremely unenthusiastic about Lieberman as Gore's VP pick - just not a personality I could stomach, and later events added to that feeling)
12 years later, we start asking everyone to get on the bus 2 years early, because we're so afraid a few dissenting votes will derail our mandate. Sad.
There was a drumbeat that got very loud on Nader before the 2000 election saying he could or would likely make the difference, so it's not hindsight to say that of his 100,000 votes in FL, Gore would have gotten 1,000, for example -- there was foresight aplenty on this point.
Suppose, just hypothetically, that it became known that Gore actually got more legitimate votes in Fla. than Bush did. Would it still be as valid to scapegoat Nader every time that election comes up?
Yes, because it would be even more clear Gore won Florida. A Super Bowl victory by 20 points is grander than one that is won by 4 points, and the victor's victory is more definite.
Ralph Nader is a specific individual, not an amorphous group of stay-at-home voters. He knew or absolutely should have known that his presence on the ballot would make it more likely that W would be elected. Before the election, a number of prominent former Nader's Raiders wrote him an open-letter saying exactly this. But, by dint of stubborn, selfish, mean-spirited pique, Nader chose to help Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and George W. Bush take power. The resulting eight years devastated America. Anybody want to defend Nader rather than try to point the finger at some other group or individual?
No.
There's a kind of egotism when people like Nader jump into a presidential election without bothering to do the hard work of actually building a party from the grassroots up. The tea party has shown us how powerful a small group of dedicated people can be in changing the direction of a political party.Sure they've had their failures but they've had some real success as well. If liberals want to move our party left or push certain priorities we could do the same by acting in district or state wide elections.
Ocean-Kat (if that is your real name ;-)) - you have nailed it! I am always cogitating on what routes are available for liberals to take power in America and make our country a better place. One big problem is we don't have deep pockets behind us like the Tea Party does now and like the National Socialist Party did 80 years ago. Konrad Heiden, Der Fuehrer. I think Dagblog should be an incubator for liberal ideas on how to seize the reins from the plutocrats.
WTF? The New York Times and Washington Post wouldn't retract fallacious reports, such as on the Internet and Love Canal, and it's all Gore's fault? You think he didn't have reversing that high on his list?
Jim Lehrer tripped up Gore in the debates by accusing him of running an ad he didn't run. He finished off debate 2 asking Bush what he thought about his serial exaggerator opponent, and debate 1 asking Bush about his reaction to Gore fundraising "scandals" (that awfully mild Buddhist Temple pseudo-brouhaha):
The press turned a 10% debate win according to polls into a technical loss - the media had veto power, and could extract revenge, just by beating the same meme into the ground. Where were Democrats to protect? Al Gore is more pompous than Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie. Or Bush Jr. in swagger mode? Or John "I'm a Maverick" McCain? Or Rush Limbaugh, Gordon Norquist, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, Tim Russert (or son Luke) or Rachel Maddow, Maureen Dowd, Gail Collins, Andrew Sullivan from the media?
Why did we let this be an issue?
My biggest issue with those debates came when Gore had the chance "to talk to young people" and talked about social security and prescription benefits, rather than global warming and internet and the rise of challenges like offshoring. But I figure he was just trying to get out of a box with ever-shifting rules.
Acting like a jerk hurts in these things. Take away Clinton's likability and what would be have been? How did "we" make Gore's personality an issue? As Obi-Wan said to Anakin, "you have done that yourself."
Dukakis was judged a narrow winner in his first debate with Bush 41, but Newsweek used the word "icy" in its cover describing that as a win. Icy wins aren't wins. Any student of Clinton should understand that.
Ah, you're a student of that great political documentary, "Heathers"
John McCain's an irascible jerk - did that hurt him? George W Bush is pricklish - don't speak French in front of him for sure, don't mess with Daddy either. Obama? "Pleasant enough". "Sweetie". Yeah, right.
Your quote about Newsweek identifies the problem - media's trying to be the first to spin. Doesn't matter if they get it wrong about Gore's Tennessee background, Washington DC hotel, prep school, Love Story, Love Canal, internet, "earthtone suits", wearing 4 buttons, etc. Gore brought it all on himself by being "pompous" and a "jerk". Unlike Maureen Dowd, who just tells it as she sees it, whether she has to make it up or not.
Figure out why the press decided Gore had to be a jerk, why McCain had to be a "Maverick", why Bush was equal to Gore and not just a bumbler with a knack for malapropisms. Why doesn't the media have on people who predicted Iraq would be a disaster - only Beltway carriers of conventional wisdom about how we have to be tough on terror and America wants more bipartisanship. Yes, "we" made all this an issue, just like we ran with a "hope and change" meme for the current president, and for some reason seem surprised that he's not a great debater even though we made up half of his abilities just to fit our storyline. So little of politics has been reality based these last 12 years. But I guess it was Howard Dean's fault that CNN turned up his scream in the mix.
Al married Tipper. As the Latins say, "Ipso quodum, liquidatori."
Also, I can't possibly vote for a man who loves a woman who hates When A Man Loves A Woman.
You can't possibly vote anyway. Omnes Gallia ist Divisa in Partes Tres and Habaneros Corpus.
You can't repeal the media's role in the political ecosystem, or people's desire to actually like their leaders. You like Bill so you get this.
As to Dean, I was a big supporter and watched his scream live, and felt and said immediately that he had destroyed himself. I didn't need media to tell me that, it was obvious.
Your lament is like complaining that people like attractive people. They do. My pointing it out doesn't make me superficial, merely observant.
I differentiate between the media and the people.
The people didn't have such a problem with Al.
The media did.
They made sure the people "learned" it through incessant harping on false issues.
No, you can't take the media out of that equation, and they're a mouth of corporate funding, as well as little boys and Heathers. They have a lot more money than Nader had. They are the real enemy, cheering on our war with Iraq and all their other ugly effects - can't count them out for sure, have to counter them in effective ways, like Bush & McCain getting the man crush love from the press - but really, this is horribly contrived crap to influence a bunch of spoiled connected Beltway types - don't confuse it with real policy - it's buying little self-inflated minds off with lunch and flattery, you recommend their books, they recommend yours type stuff.
I'd worry about Gore being pompous if he hadn't done a good job of coming back from incessant negativity, and had good poll leads in the weeks before the election.
Somehow I doubt his "pompous" problem was the big issues in losing that margin, and more having the media try to point out a problem that wasn't, while ignoring ugly facts in Bush's economic plan.
Maybe we should blame it on Bradley Democrats who helped feed these inaccuracies from early parts of the campaign? But that would touch too many people - have to point at Nader voters as the culprits, easier to have a small group of ne'er-do-wells and Fifth Columnists.
You already admitted that but for Nader's presence, Gore would have had the votes to win in Florida (and the way you conceded it, NH too). Since we agree that Nader was a but for cause of Bush's election, my work is done.
The media loved and propagated the Romney surge meme, and helped Romney this month like they helped Obama last month. What Obama and Gore control is their own performance, not whether, as last week, the media even-Stevens a loss, or asks questions you or I don't like.
My individual view is that Gore gave away the Presidency by acting like a jerk.
Huh. By my scorecard you blame the whole damn thing on Nader.
Two but-for causes. Nader chose to try to compete with Gore and was well warned of the effect he might have. I remember having my own little chat with the Nader leafletter at my L stop in Chicago on Election Day 2000 on this point.
That Gore, who was at least trying to beat Bush, debated ineptly, does not make Nader less of a but-for cause, or remove his moral responsibility for electing George W. Bush and precipitating the Iraq War.
Again, Gore won the 1st debate according to people who watched.
The judges - the media - then threw the debate to Bush.
Chagrined, Gore came in the 2nd debate to apologize obscenely to our Media Masters of the Universe, but it was 2 years too late by then - they can't abide by southern crackers, whatever his accomplishments. They'd rather go with the "math is tough" candidate.
Given how he lost likability so decisively, I guess you include SNL in those who stole Gore's debate "victories" from him.
The only path is the Get Out The Vote Path.
Thump thump thump, people.
Or else all else for the next four years is blah-blah-blah.
Thump thump thump. Call, talk, write, drive.
Get out the vote.
That is all.
We're on it, bro.
I'm not a big fan of Obama, but I think he has gotten a couple of bum raps from the left.
Daniel Ellsberg and Cornel West said he is a pawn of the corporations, which I don't believe. West is a socialist, so by his standards, everyone who holds public office is a pawn of the corporations.
Then there is the matter of the drone strikes. Some war crimes have been committed in the strikes, but many of the drone attacks are well within the laws of war. Obama's leftist critics seem to think he has an obligation to arrest Al Qaeda members instead of killing them. Well, Al Qaeda members are combatants, so we don't have to give them a trial before killing them, anymore than German soldiers in Normandy got trials before getting nailed.
#1 - please address the accusation, not just label the opponent a socialist, as if that invalidates the claim. Obama opened up more of the Gulf for drilling a month for the BP spill - did not help an environmental agenda. His friendly attitude to Wall Street & appointments like Summers & Geithner have been problematic.
#2 - the use of drones in Yemen is problematic - we don't have a war there and it's a stretch to claim they have any ties to the guys who did 9/11. A 2010 estimate had 300 Al Qaeda total in Pakistan, 100 in Afghanistan, recently from BBC a few hundred for AQAP. So who are all these drone raids hitting? And how many lies do you accept, whether it's our overestimated progress in Afghanistan, the accuracy of our drones, or whether all male mourners at a targeted funeral or a 17-year-old American kid as collateral damage are all "enemy combatants".
(Note: a US court just threw out Hamdan's case for war crimes prosecutions on "aiding terrorism", as driving a car or cooking a meal for bin Laden simply are not to the level of war crimes. While it's possible they may be prosecutable in an Article 3 court, they almost certainly wouldn't provide death penalty. So what's our justification for extrajudicial assassination in many of these cases?)
I don't think he's been excessively friendly toward Wall Street--they can't be happy about his determination to raise their taxes. I think his solidarity with the middle class is sincere--he isn't as faithful toward the poor.
Al Qaeda in Yemen is out to kill us and other Westerners. It doesn't matter if any of them planned 9/11; they are trying to make more 9/11s.
If I thought anyone was an enemy combatant, I wouldn't have said there have been war crimes. I had the attacks on funerals in mind when I mentioned war crimes--also the NYT report that all adult males in the target area are considered militants.
The reason there are so few Al Qaeda men in Afghanistan and Pakistan is because we've killed so many of them. The New America Foundation estimates that a fifth of those killed in drone strikes have been innocents--which sucks, but if it is accurate, it means that the drone raids are hitting Al Qaeda men.
I believe most Al Qaeda men signed up to be warriors rather than limo drivers.
What determination to raise their taxes? It's 2012, they're still the same as in 2008. He screwed the middle class what with not investigating & getting compensation for mortgage fraud, or original sales of toxic assets - these hurt a lot of middle class who had their American dream tied up in these securities and retirement investments like 401k, 403b, or traditional company pensions.
Al Qaeda in Yemen has no capability to make more 9/11s, and it's hard to see how that's their goal. Brennen and others have lied so much, that it's difficult to find any untainted truth in there, but for the most part - "why are we in Yemen?" we even had our ambassador acting like the provincial governor giving unilateral speeches - combine that with drone attacks, these people will certainly come to hate us.
Don't know what New America's gig is, but do you really believe in Pakistan drones in 2012 have killed max 4 unknown & 0 civilian targets while killing maybe 200-300 combatants? Estimate here is only 41 high-value targets. Not the presumed thousands of high level AQ operatives.
Most Al Qaeda like many rebels likely signed up to free their land from invaders - often thought a noble goal throughout history. In Iraq always figured it was mostly branding. Destructive locally, irrelevant to us outside of Iraq.
You're being unjust to him about the mortgage fraud.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/obama-administration-mortgage-f...
He didn't raise their taxes because the Republicans blocked him from doing it.
Al Qaeda can't make more 9/11s because we've thrashed them, not because it isn't their goal.
The New America Foundation says the drones have killed thousands of Al Qaeda members. Do they have to be high level? Killing foot soldiers is a big part of war. I thought I made it clear that I don't believe "0 civilians" have been killed. Hundreds have been killed, and it sucks. My complaint is that Obama's radical critics consider ANY drone attacks to be criminal. The laws of war say otherwise.
http://www.bu.edu/law/central/jd/organizations/journals/international/vo...
In 2001 their land hadn't been invaded. The presence of an American military base in Saudi Arabia wasn't an invasion. The invasion of Iraq--which I detested, and spent a night in jail over--can't explain Al Qaeda's acts; they were doing it long before.
Flavius here. The system seems to want to label me anonymous.
Re Obama /wall street: at the level of anecdotal information my banker-family member who went door to door for Obama in 08 is now bitterly hostile because-in her view- of his hostility to the Street.
Re: Summers, his chief involvement was in Dec 08-April 09. Any president under the circumstances at that time needed all possible help and using Summers was like Truman using McArthur in 1950.A drowning man doesn't evaluate a life preserver, he grabs it.
Re: debate performances. They are performances. I've written here before that I once had to go on one of those early morning TV shows.In the course of 8 hours a Madison Ave. firm turned me from a hopeless klutz into a winner ( in that context).
Romney IMHO reflected that sort of training: his gestures, use of the stage, flouting of the rules weren't things he'd learned at the Harvard Business School,They "smelled of the lamp"to use an antique phrase.
Obama for whatever reason, perhaps vanity, was himself. No contest.
Romney has hit a 45% ceiling in Ohio, give a percent up or down, in my opinion. Just as Obama hitting his NC ceiling. The ground game needs to work hard to ensure the actual results reflect this. In a place like Florida, Obama has to have the ground game plus sway some undecideds, a much more difficult task. It looks like NV, WI and IA are closer to OH, and VA is closer to FL.
The one thing I have yet to hear from any pundit, regardless of bias, is that Romney has a superior ground game than Obama, esp in the midwest. Actually a MSM talking about a close race and a possible Romney Ryan win will serve in part to keep the troops in the trenches working hard to get out the vote for Obama. In some ways, it would be worse for Obama if people were thinking that he had it "in the bag."
AT - I agree. And tonight will no doubt be another nail biting, stress inducing and critical debate. It may be the most important one since it's the last, wish it was on domestic issues instead.
And now Trump is touting big shocker news that 'may' harm President Obama to be revealed on Wednesday. sigh.
There are a few million people in Ohio who aren't billionaires who have news that will be bad for Donald Trump to be revealed on November 6.
A-man; May you (once again) be on target with your prediction. If not, there will be dire consequences for all.
The Village Voice headline says it best:
Donald Trump, Publicity Slut, Will Blow Our Minds On Wednesday -- In 140 Characters Or Less
I think Publicity Slut best sums him up.
As they point out, too
I think it will have to do with a breakthrough in tinfoil helmet technology.
My personal feeling is that 95% of "undecided" voters (now at about 3% or 4%) lean toward one candidate or another, but the lean is not strong enough in their mind to claim they support that candidate. I also feel that unless one of the candidates inspires them, they probably won't vote (esp if the weather sucks). In places like IA, OH, and WI, this benefits Obama (in part due to early voting in the first two).
I doubt this third debate will do much to inspire these undecideds for either Romney or Obama. Given all the commercials and rallies, I doubt much will. They will make up their mind a day or two of the election, which will be for the candidate toward which they were leaning in the first place.
A gut feeling is that Obama probably wins this group simply because if they had been that upset with him, they would have become Romney voters by now. A majority of them lean toward the sitting president, the challenger not having made a compelling case to switch horses in mid-stream. Not the kind of political decision making that makes for a strong Republic, but it is what it is.
Donald Trump is irrelevant. He is obviously trying once again to drum up people to watch that trainwreck called Celebrity Apprentice. In that he seems to believe he could have an impact on this election is hilarious!
IMO, he is indeed a festering boil on the arse of our nation, but this close to election (interesting next day after debate) one of those lies may have an impact.
It's just insane that these buffoons have are given any space on the stage to spew their garbage. So many of these rich guys are such ego maniacs and have the ethics of a scum sucking maggot (okay, I'm just a bit nuts myself from all the dirty tricks, lies and no blow to low they're tossin' out).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/the-trump-bombshell-new...
People who would listen to Donald Trump, would not be voting for the President anyway. Oh and people who would believe anything Donald Trump says are probably not that bright. I feel very safe in writing that. Remember when he was going to do this at the Republican National Convention, but they decided to pull Trumps performance art show. Seriously, this is just complete nonsense. Oh Trump, and his Kenyan Manchurian Candidate BS, it's only loons who believe this man Auntie, he wants to have impact, he wishes he had impact, fortunately for the world, he does not, b/c sentient beings know that the Trumpster is a con man.
He will have no impact on this election, and might I add this, his bombshell won't really be a bombshell either, but it might get morons to watch his idiotic show. And that is all The Donald is doing, drumming up viewers for his train wreck show. That is what he does, he keeps himself in the limelight by saying stupid things.
Don't worry about Donald Trump, seriously, he isn't worth your time.
Maybe he will become like Howard Hughes and vanish from public view, caught in the web of his madness.
Haha, hopefully not in the nude though.
Romney and Ryan are biding their time until they win, allowing the extreme right, and Tea Party (aka jerks) to be paid back for keeping quiet.
Romney's move to the center will not be allowed by such jerks. They will be in Romney/Ryan's back pocked calling the shots (literally) if he is elected.
Romnesia and the extreme right's/Tea Party's silence is all the evidence you need.
Four more years please - as the only man who was able to stop the loss of 700, 000 jobs a month (not to mention dealing with two unfunded wars c/- of the Republicans) and the GFC.