crazedandconfused's picture

    Agreeing with Obama. Torture photos should not be released

    When I heard that Obama was reversing course on the torture photographs, initially I was extremely disappointed.  I thought that he may be bowing to conservative pressure - or was possibly protecting some Democrats who were in too deep.

    Then I remembered who I was talking about.  This wasn't some shady politician (sure - Republicans say what you will - but you are a laughing stock so no one cares) - this was Barack Obama.  He inspired me to give my time and money (more than I could afford) to his campaign.  I did so because I truly believed that he was the best person for the job.  I made that decision after reading his writing, and the listening to him speak.  What struck me most was not his eloquence and ability to give you chills when he gave a speech.  It wasn't even something he spoke directly about.   What made me sure he was the best candidate to get us through the enormity of challenges we now face (Thank you so much Bush/Cheney, etc.) is simply the way he thinks through a problem.

    A perfect example of this came when the decision was made to release the Torture memos.  Below is an excerpt from a story run in the Washington Post April 24, 2009:

    "Seated in Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel's West Wing office with about a dozen of his political, legal and security appointees, Obama requested a mini-debate in which one official was chosen to argue for releasing the memos and another was assigned to argue against doing so. When it ended, Obama dictated on the spot a draft of his announcement that the documents would be released, while most of the officials watched, according to an official who was present. The disclosure happened the next day."

    The story goes into great detail about the positions on both sides, but it is clear that Obama gave both sides a chance to present their argument, then he made his decision after a weighing of all of the facts.   Combine this with his other fantastic traits, and he's the perfect person to help us clean the stain of blood and shame that George and Dick et. al left us with.

    I then looked at my initial reaction and asked myself some tough questions.  Was the reason I wanted those pictures out so bad because like most people look when I drive by a car crash?  Was it based on my need to have even more reasons to tell Dick Cheney to STFU and go to his rat-hole and die?  Did the release of those photo's have an effect on my daily life?  I'll keep the answers to those questions to myself - but I will share the question that made me realize Obama is absolutely the right decision, at least the right decision for now.

    What would I do if I were a young man in Pakistan - my country being taken over by the Taliban.  What if the Taliban asked me to join them?   What if I shared their faith - although never to that extreme - but was searching for meaning in my life (as do so many young people regardless of their birthplace).  Would I join? 

    Before the release of these additional photos, when it is just words conveying the message of what we did to various suspected terrorists, I might not have.

    Show me picture after picture of Islamic brothers being sexually abused, anally raped with objects and forced to endure unimaginably horrifying torture and I'd grab a scimitar and try to cut the fucking heads off any white person I could find.  That might just be my breaking point. Words are one thing.  A picture like that never leaves you.  It is used for motivation, and it can be used to convince you that you are doing the right thing, no matter how heinous that thing is.  It might convince you that the kidnapped 18 year old human rights worker in front of you sitting in a puddle of his own urine REALLY does deserve to be tortured then brutally murdered.   It might convince you that your God, (in your mind the only real God, sound familiar Christians) wants - no - commands you to do this. 

    We have people in this Country who will blow up abortion clinics and beat or kill gay people just for being gay.  They do this because they believe their God supports them.   Imagine if those same Christian Extremists were pushed even farther.  What if a group started torturing pregnant Christian Women?  How many extremists would be created then?  How many mild mannered good family men who are moderate would instantly do whatever it took to stop this?

    Pakistan is a dangerous place right now.  They have nuclear weapons.  The Taliban right now probably isn't strong enough to obtain nuclear fuel let alone weapons.  But what if - overnight - their recruitment percentages went up 4000%?  What would happen to our brave men and women fighting (whether we agree with the war or not) over there?  Would that not embolden the Taliban and convince them they are right?  And would it not be the trigger event that convinces even moderate Pakistani youth that they must stand up for their God.

    Miss California, Carrie Prejean ignorantly blamed the devil for trying to convince her to take the easy way out and lie about her bigoted feelings about gay people. I mention this absurdity to contrast with what would be a real moral test.  Imagine the decision that would face many youths in the Muslim Countries if these photos are released? 

    The fact that we tortured is inexcusable.  The wrongdoers should be punished.  The people supporting these evils are lacking a moral compass - or it's pointing in the wrong direction.  The World must know that we are no longer the Country of "do what we want, when we want, damn the consequences and whoever might get hurt, and just be glad to bask in the glow that is Christian America".  I believe we will get there -  eventually

    One last thing.  I know some of you (not all) get so outraged and outspoken partly because you are looking for a reaction.  But really - if these photos are not released right now is it going to effect your daily life?  Most of us have not been asked to bear the burden of this conflict. Most of us have never served our Country at all.  Maybe this is one thing we can all do to give a little bit back to those who do serve.  Maybe we can trust that Obama considered all options, and decided this was the best choice we had.  Maybe we can rally behind our leader, and give him the support he will need to fight off attacks by the Right and allow him to continue the great work he has started.   He's only been in office for a few months, yet he has faced challenges few people on this Earth have or will ever have to face.  Maybe, just maybe, we can act like the Americans of yesteryear and sacrifice - just a little.  A very little.

    Comments

    Question: Were CIA operatives, who destroyed video evidence of torture, likewise serving national interests?

    Follow-up: Did Obama endanger national interests by releasing the torture memos?


    Obama wants to hide the 2000 plus pictures because they LOOK bad.

    Obama wants you to trust him that they are not THAT bad.

    Uncle TOM or Uncle Sam?

    "Just a few bad apples"


    Just a suggestion: Uncle Tom might not be the most appropriate reference.

    I'm torn on this. While I see your point, Kala, Obama's rationale is a little too reminiscent of what we heard from Bush for 8 years:

    [insert thing he doesn't want to do here] will hurt the troops. 

    I remain torn on how to address the fact that we tortured, but I still think that all of the information should see the light of day. 

    And by the way, on Monday Ted Koppel and a couple other guests were on NPR's Talk of the Nation, talking about the past, present, and future of torture in and by the United States. It was a great discussion and you can get the podcast at npr.org. 


    Sorry, that should read, "While I see your point, Rev..." You keep changing your avatar. I'm very easily confused.

    Also, I just read more about it. If it's true that United States citizens raped children in order to force "confessions" from their parents, with the knowledge and approval of the White House...

    I can't even finish that sentence. I can't get my mind around it. But I definitely don't want to see pictures of it.


    Also, I just read more about it. If it's true that United States citizens raped children in order to force "confessions" from their parents, with the knowledge and approval of the White House...

    If that's what really happened and we don't respond, then many people, both here and abroad, will have good reason to believe that the rule of law is meaningless in America.  Pictures or no.


    I really dig the Kopp.  It's usually a good listen when he's on.


    Hmm, your nome de plume is a bit cumbersome.  I'm going to call you "also-ran".


    Laughing


    I think you meant nome de plum.

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