cmaukonen's picture

    Communication is the problem to the answer

    By cmaukonen on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 6:48pm |

    I was discussing in chat the other night with a friend about congress and the Wall Street and how we could get real financial reform, among other things. One of the problems that I see with our current political mess is that the people on the left have a major communication problem. Not only do most not know how to communicate their ideas to the general populace, but far too often their message is hollow and hypocritical. 

    How can one preach about financial reform and how the uber rich do not pay enough tax or get obscene compensation or play fast and loose with the money they have when you yourself engage in or those activities or secretly (and sometimes not so secretly) wish you could do so yourself ?

    Those that are struggling to make it are not going to listen to some ones ideas if these ideas come from people who drive over priced BMW or Mercedes Benz SUVs, live in expensive gated communities and pull in 6 figure salaries and justify to the nines their right to do so.  And when they do speak, they talk at people rather than with them and come of as preachy, arrogant and self righteous.  Instead of honest gut level expression.

    How can anyone talk about having a fair and just economy and society when they are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary themselves to bring it about.  You have to be willing to walk the walk before you earn the right to talk the talk.

    The big news now of course is Egypt and the Middle East. I wonder how many on the left would be willing to take the risks and put out the effort and make the sacrifices the Egyptians have these last 12 or so days for what they say they want ? How many would be able to communicate their desires in an honest, gut level way instead of some intellectual BS that sounds good on the surface but says essentially nothing. 

    The left and the Democratic party was strong up through the 1960s because it consisted of working people, blue collar and white collar, that were able to express what they wanted and were willing to make the kind of commitments necessary to bring it about.  And tried to the best of their ability to live what they believed. Most had some humility and lived modestly. Not like Wall Street Wannabees or republicans in waiting.

    Comments

    Completely off topic, C, but the title of your song has me singing 10 CC's song "The Things We Do For Love" to myself.


    by LisB on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:30pm

    I confess. That is what gave me the idea for the title to this post.


    by cmaukonen on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:36pm

    Not only hypocritical, but stupid

    the people on the left have a major communication problem. Not only do most not know how to communicate their ideas to the general populace, but far too often their message is hollow and hypocritical.

    Everyone wants to make more money; except they don’t want YOU to make more, because that means they'll have to pay more.......They’ll keep buying the cheap stuff and then wonder where the jobs are.......Wonder where the healthcare benefits is going to come from. 

    Keep buying foreign goods because they’re so much cheaper, cutting their own throats  

    Under cut the working wages in the foreign country forcing migration to a better life......Keep allowing uncontrolled immigration, to undercut the working wages of Americans.

    All for the benefit of the Merchant class ......

    Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
    Thomas Jefferson 

    Now, given the experience that we have had thus far, with our subsequent trade agreements with NAFTA and others, you would think that with our experience of job loss that we have had there that when you find yourself in a hole that you might stop digging.
    Stephen F. Lynch

    Is communications the problem or lack of gray matter?


    by Resistance on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:49pm

    Is communications the problem or lack of gray matter?

    I blog...you decide. Wink


    by cmaukonen on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 7:52pm

    Keep on blogging, one can hope the people will wake up.

    Although I believe the merchants are winning the battle. Pitting the working class, one against one another.

    Win The Future...................................  for the WTO

      


    by Resistance on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:01pm

    Communications??? I'm more incline to say consensus is the real issue. For instance, we, being liberals, Democrats and progressives, were all partying up a storm when HCR legislation was on the front burner. The problem was there were quite a number of variations of what we on the left thought HCR should be able to do. And the GOPer's picked us apart and made a mess of it. We ended up with something that barely scratches the surface and no faction on the left is happy with it. Yes it does offer immediate relief in some areas which are most pressing, but overall it's extremely weak and the GOPer's can easily take it apart piece by piece. As for financial reform, again no consensus ever materialized and the GOPer's were able to neuter the entire effort in favor of Wall Street. Perhaps we all should take a cue from the GOPer's and get the kinks worked out of our message so everyone is in lock-step agreement with the legislation we expect out of Congress.


    by Beetlejuice on Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:52pm

    "Those that are struggling to make it are not going to listen to some ones ideas if these ideas come from people who drive over priced BMW or Mercedes Benz SUVs, live in expensive gated communities and pull in 6 figure salaries ..."

    People in the depression listened to FDR. 

    It's not that Dems aren't made up of enough working class, blue collar people, instead of all us effete elitists.  That's the baloney the Repubs peddle; Dems are big government elitists and Repubs are the blue collar folks with working class values  We all know that's complete bs, but nevertheless, that's the message they're trying to peddle. 

    The Repubs assume that elitists can't possibly know how to relate to the problems of the working class, because Republican elitists never have and never will.  But, and here's the flaw in the plan they're peddling, Democratic elitists, almost always do. That's one of the things that distinguish us from Repubs, our sense of the world being about more than just ourselves. The notion that we are all in this together,  and it's not 'every man for themselves'.   Sorry, but 'I got mine and screw everyone else' is a Repub thought process, not a Democratic one.


    by MrSmith1 on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 1:05am

    I remember Union members voted for Reagan.....Mondale told the truth about the direction of the country, but the working class bought into morning in America with Ronald Reagan.

    Carter may have been a smart president, but it didn't help Carter or America that we were held hostage; night after night with Ted Koppel, ABC News anchor. "The Iran Crisis—America Held Hostage: Day xxx" where xxx represented each day Iranians held hostage the occupants of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran” Night after night ABC news was looking for ratings. The Democrats looked weak.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightline .

    I place a lot of the blame on Iran for our Middle East policy. They wanted to jerk America around, now reap what they sowed.

    Military expenditures taking a lions share of Government revenue, Egypt torturing people for America, because Iran acted stupidly......Militaristic America wasn't going to run away with its tail between its legs.......Not after the disgrace of Mogadishu or the Khobar Towers Bombing. The World Trade Center 

    Patriotic fervor just isn't a Republican ideal; Democrats fall for it too......Propaganda is a tool of communications.

    Speak up Democrats?.........Impossible when Democrats are saying, kick their arses, singing, “We are the Champions”....Patriotism is a common unifier.

    You say

    "That's one of the things that distinguish us from Repubs, our sense of the world being about more than just ourselves. The notion that we are all in this together,  and it's not 'every man for themselves" 

    Impossible; when Democrats are buying cheap imported cars, with American flags on the back window. Buying clothes from India, shoes from Italy and then think we Democrats can afford to buy airtime to get the message out. It is EVIDENT every man is for himself; I got mine cheap now  get yours. 

    Unions helped the Democrrats, in return the Democrats helped destroy good Union jobs. 

    We can’t fix stupid.   It costs to much


    by Resistance on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 3:42am

    Resistance, If you can afford Italian shoes you are spending a ton of money, they are not inexpensive shoes, they are some of the most expensive shoes in the world.

    by tmccarthy0 on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 4:31am

    Those expensive shoes, if they really are; took money away from our industries..........Buying shirts, pant's, socks from countries with a cheaper labor costs, destroyed our textile mills here at home..........Textile mills hiring American workers, hiring machiists, hiring accountants.

    Now who gets all the ancillary jos, associated with the textile industries?

    Once that money was given to another, from a foreign country, we lost the multiplier affect.............

    When buying cars from Japan, who did the American people think was the working class then?

    We have high unemployment, because our people stopped hiring American workers.

    Now who’s supposed to pay the taxes to support the Government the Democrats want, The Unemployed?

    Ross Perot told us the giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country would reduce our tax base.......Democrats had a choice and they chose Bill Clinton and he gave us NAFTA, helping  the merchant class, not the working class. Where are the textile mills? Where are the steel manufacturers?   

    What else do you call it when our forefathers warned us about credit and trade policies? Stupid.....With no common sense; do you call those who ignore, ignorant or Stupid.

    We haven't even discussed the illegal immigrants that took billions of dollars from our economy and sent it to another foreign country their home, that money has gone into anothers pocket, not an Americans pocket, the multipler affect broken  Do Democrats support that idea?

    Consider the money spent to build schools and hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan, money taken from our needs. Do Democrats support that work too?

    Did we think we could just use the credit card?

    Of course the Democrats can't come up with programs we like;…….. were broke. Who do you want to tax, the unemployed?  .......When you figure it out you'll soon see, why many of those who have jobs don't vote Democratic.

    Perot warned us. But remember they called him foolish  The Democrats won that time the people, the working class lost.


    by Resistance on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 9:40am

    Ever heard of Prada, Boticelli, House of Gucci, Forzieri, Borgo degli Ulivi, Vaneli, Bruno Magli, I know you think you  know what you are talking about, but when it comes to Italian shoes you seem utterly clueless. And to be frank Resistance, you also seem not to realize when you pay over $1500.00 for a pair of Italian shoes, the market is quite small, only the very wealthy can purchase these shoes. It takes no jobs away from Americans, because these goods are not mass produced, good luck finding a  pair of Magli's for a cost you can afford. It is not the same as  purchasing Nike's made in Burma, China or the Philippines.


    by tmccarthy0 on Tue, 02/08/2011 - 12:50am

    Whatever, , ......I should have said Nike... BFD... Sparing me of your self -centered insults

    Americans buying foreign goods doesn't help American workers. The fact that you missed the point of my comment; instead focusing on some pettiness. Or trying to show off your knowledge of Italian shoes;   IS Americas problem.

    I suppose if I wanted to waste as much time as you have, researching top names and the most expensive shoes from Italy, Did you by chance look up what shoe manufacturer in America is Italy's competition for high end shoes? If there is an American competitor,can you tell us how Americans buying Italian shoes helps American workers?

    It's only a small market; sounds like an excuse a lobbyist or special interest group would promote?

    The fact that you recognized Nike's influence, say's you understood my concerns about outsourcing

    So this comment you made

    I know you think you  know what you are talking about, but when it comes to Italian shoes you seem utterly clueless.

     Insulting me makes you feel better? 


    by Resistance on Tue, 02/08/2011 - 2:48am

    I disagree. Stupid is fixable. Determined, willful ignorance is not.  The embracing of Reagan's Morning in America BS by voters was not the fault of Democrats, it was the fault of Americans who wanted to believe in a fairy tale and voted against the people who had been their advocates because they were convinced the policies were failures.  In attempting to win the voters back, is where the Dems went wrong by thinking they needed to take pages out of the Reagan playbook instead of holding to their core beliefs and asserting they had been right all along.  Why? Because the narrative being spun so out-manuevered them and laid out such a blissful dream of 'hope', they had no answers for it, other than to say, 'hey, it's not true...'  It's like a guy standing next to the cotton candy concession warning about tooth decay resulting from eating the stuff.  How many people would stop buying the cotton candy?


    by MrSmith1 on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 8:03am

    The embracing of Reagan's Morning in America BS by voters was not the fault of Democrats, it was the fault of Americans who wanted to believe in a fairy tale and voted against the people who had been their advocates because they were convinced the policies were failures.

    I think this is a classic example of how our habit of placing blame (and we're all guilty of it from time to time) can be counter-productive. In my opinion, it ultimately doesn't matter who's to blame, but rather what matters is what can we do to avoid the problem in the future. Sometimes figuring out "who's to blame" can be a means towards that end, but often it becomes the end in itself, especially if we exclude those we're sympathetic to (and who we're often most able to influence). So, the question becomes, what can we do to keep this kind of BS from influencing Americans in the future? Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer to that question.


    by Verified Atheist on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 1:12pm

    I see your point.


    by MrSmith1 on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 1:23pm

    But it has less to do with intelligence and more to do with ego. The Robber Barons at the top are like a Rock band. With their Roadies (the lower tax bracket)  and Groupies (the upper tax bracket). They need the Roadies to do the work, but the Roadies can be easily replaced with other fools will to do the work. And they need the Groupies to feel good about themselves. But the Groupies too can be replaced. And both the Roadies and Groupies think the Robber Barons walk on water and the Robber Barons could care less about them.


    by cmaukonen on Tue, 02/08/2011 - 1:21am

    The union members voted for Reagan because the Democrats had hung them out to dry.


    by cmaukonen on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 1:02pm

    A monopoly on the means of communication may define a ruling elite more precisely than the celebrated Marxian formula of monopoly in the means of production……..Cynics regarded everybody as equally corrupt... Idealists regarded everybody as equally corrupt, except themselves.
    Robert Anton Wilson


    by Resistance on Mon, 02/07/2011 - 3:31pm

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