The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Jim Webb throws hat in.

    By Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 12:13pm |

    I'm happy to report sending a hundred bucks to Jim Webb's exploratory committee for 2016. He is the breath of fresh air I have been waiting for.

    All nonsense aside, Webb has great credentials, in addition to which he is a new cut of cloth, a person of experience and substance, and all important and rare in today's celebrity culture--a person worthy of narrative. 

    I supported Webb in his Senatorial election in Virginia, an investment of which I am proud.

    Well, what are his policies? I suggest googling his announcement video.  

     

    Comments

    I watched it a few minutes ago. I like Webb and hope even if he doesn't win the nominations that he can broaden the conversation among Democrats.

     


    by EmmaZahn on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 12:29pm

    Thanks. We'll see if he can garner some cash and do some debates.

    I like your thought about broadening the conversation and it brings to mind the thought that this first open challenge to Hillary will take the onus off Warren to do likewise. What a dynamic, can't wait---Clinton, Warren and Webb. Now we're talking some policy! 

    I just don't think Warren can win a national yet. I think Webb can.


    by Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 12:47pm

    I think Webb can.

    I sent a link to the video to my nephew who is part of the demographic Webb would need to win over to win. I hope to hear back from him but it may be a few days. I'll let you know what he thinks or if he just ignores it.

     


    by EmmaZahn on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 12:55pm

     

    let me take a wild guess. He is under 30 and when asked about his politics states that he is a Libertarian, or Independent. 


    by Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 1:00pm

    40, working class married white male, father, stepfather, very responsible and well informed and I would say, yes, he would consider himself independent and he does lean libertarian but not extreme. 


    by EmmaZahn on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 3:13pm

    Jim Webb?

    http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/jim-webb-women-cant-fight/

    "Your mission remains fixed, determined, inviolable—it is to win wars," Douglas MacArthur told the 1962 West Point class. In this story, a Naval Academy graduate, a combat veteran of Vietnam, says the country's fighting mission is being corrupted, with grave consequences to the national defense. One of the main problems, he says, is women.


    OUCH! I Wonder how he'll tread the tight wire over that one?

    Just wondering...

    Edit to add: But he does carry a gun and chew tobacco.

    ~OGD~

     


    by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 4:04pm

    I hear women are part of the 47 percent using up all those government benefits. No harm, no foul - not like he said anything controversial. Every day's a good day for misogyny in America.

    But good thing he's not one of those pro-war conservatives like Hillary. Hardy har har.  A Reagan Republican to represent the Democrats? How far we've fallen.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 4:13pm

    How far the Democrats have fallen to turn off the whole of Appalachia, the Scots-Irish who built this country and gave us Country Western music.


    by Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 6:06pm

    That's a rant I'd like to see - rave on!


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/21/2014 - 9:42am

    Thanks. Working on it.


    by Oxy Mora on Fri, 11/21/2014 - 1:13pm

    Well maybe he might lose some women over his misogyny but he can make that up by winning  the white male working class with his immigrant bashing and attacks on affirmative action.


    by ocean-kat on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 4:43pm

    Well, so he has some controversial views.

    The scuttlebutt is developing nicely. Great for publicity.


    by Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 6:05pm

    I cut him some slack on that article.

    I was wrong about the Red Man tobacco chewing. He's a dipper.


    by Oxy Mora on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 5:56pm

    Gee... That's nice to know...

    This baseball player and coach also dipped. He lost part of his jaw to surgeries and chemotherapy to eliminate the cancer.

    ~OGD~


    by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 11/20/2014 - 8:30pm

    Right.  These ads for Skoal are all over the South.


    by Oxy Mora on Fri, 11/21/2014 - 12:54pm

    Well, what are his policies? I suggest googling his announcement video. 

     

    I don't want to watch an ad, so I just used the old standby (oti) instead.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/james_webb.htm

     


    by Contrarian on Fri, 11/21/2014 - 1:07pm

    Much obliged. O.K, got it. He's a Moderate Liberal Populist.


    by Oxy Mora on Fri, 11/21/2014 - 1:24pm

    Just for clarification - I don't have a problem with Webb. I like moderate populists. I just don't trust campaign ads as a general rule smiley


    by Contrarian on Sun, 11/23/2014 - 6:21am

    So it isn't that I don't like Webb, I think he is an okay guy, smart, I guess I kind of like his anti-war views. But I'll be straight with you, I am not looking to vote for any white guy this time around, with the exception of one person, Jerry Brown, who I do not think will run. And since that is the case I am looking to help Hillary Clinton win the 2016 election. I'll be supporting her in the very important primaries, and will work for her election. 

    All those people who the above thread mentions have been lost by the Democratic party, and you want to know why? Because those people, the very low information voters, are easily swayed by their deeply held hatred of the "other".   I listen to CSPAN's call in morning program often. and what an eye opening program it is. You should hear those folks who call in on the Republican line and often times the Independent line, the racism and sexism of those callers, wow, It's mind blowing really. And those are the people you all are talking about here. These people won't vote for Jim Webb anyway, because he self describes as a Democrat, and these folks aren't going to be attracted back to the party, as they already see the party as a minority, woman based party, that just wants stuff. And even though these people are often the recipients of every social program the US Administers, they don't see it that way. Broadening who votes and who is able to vote is our goal now. Not trying to attract those who cling to their hatred. It isn't worth it. It is worth it to begin to form organizations to register as many unregistered legal voters as we can, continuing the work that needs to be done to get people to vote. I'm done cajoling white guys who aren't going to be voting for our candidates anyway.  So in 2016, I am committed to Hillary Clinton. 

    Nice to see you back Oxy. smiley


    by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 8:10am

    I agree that the racism and sexism is glossed over. There are voters that Democrats simply can't reach. The other problem that Democrats face is that voter suppression and gerrymandering ensures that the GOP wins the House despite a larger vote by Democratic voters. The Conservatives on the Supreme Court back the GOP on those issues.

    Corporations can influence votes and have religious beliefs. Humans can be blocked from voting and have their beliefs over-ridden by corporations.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 9:45am

    The House is a mess. If Democrats have strong turnout at top of ticket for 2016 there might be hope for the Senate. I think Webb would be insurance relative to states like Virginia and Ohio-- especially the Southern swath of Ohio voters---where I grew up.


    by Oxy Mora on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 12:21pm

    You should read these:

    Can We Talk? Here's Why the White Working Class Hates Democrats | Mother Jones

    A Follow-Up: Why the Working and Middle Classes Don't Like Obamacare Much | Mother Jones

     


    by EmmaZahn on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 10:06am

    Thanks, Emma. Very good aricles.

    We really need to redefine terms. WWC doesn't do it. In fact we are talking about people who actually keep a lot of this country running on time. They just don't get paid very well for doing so.

     


    by Oxy Mora on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 12:37pm

    Thanks very much, tcm., and thanks for comments. You know about 4 hours after I lobbed in my C note to Webb, I got an email from the ReadyforHillary campaign headed by Tim Kaine suggesting that I might be one of the first 100K folks to pitch in for Hillary. But I would rather spend my few bucks on Webb for the moment. Honestly, I think a competitive primary benefits all Democrats including Hilllary---whom I will vote for if she is the nominee---but it always makes me nervous not to have a backup plan. Per the haters---the hatred part is racial, the anger part is understandable because the (this phrase in itself is pejorative) " working class whites" know that much of the populist and jobs rhetoric coming from Democrats is pure bs.  How about Clinton/Webb, or even Webb/Warren, or Warren/Webb.  


    by Oxy Mora on Sat, 11/22/2014 - 12:12pm

    It isn't that i don't like Jim Webb Oxy, even though he has taken some positions I completely disagree with, in particular his stance on greenhouse gasses.  I'm not worried about a primary for Hillary Clinton, because she went through a primary already, a big one.  I like E. Warren she is smart but so is Hillary Clinton.  If she wants to run, I am putting all my efforts for her, every single one. 

    I don't have the confidence that Webb or any white guy is going to look out for minorities and women. I don't. I do have that confidence with Hillary Clinton. Women have lost a great deal of rights over our bodies in the last 20+ years, and we need an advocate up top to make this an issue again.  Aside from that, she has earned this, and I am looking to crack that glass ceiling all over the place. I want it shattered I have many reasons for this, but first and foremost is, she is going to be a damn solid President.  And you know what, it is kind of pissing me off that people are already slamming her and she hasn't said one word about running, the games have begun and she is target one. I don't like it. I know they are targeting her because she still represents the other. I'm listening to Steve Kornacki right now and he is making the specious claim that we don't know what she stands for, which is utter bullshit. But this is what she is up against, she is up against the entire misogynistic beltway punditry. Ugh... so for me, it's just SoS/Senator Clinton. I can't be swayed and nor can the women I speak and even some men, we are going to try to make sure that Hillary Clinton is our next President. 


    by tmccarthy0 on Sun, 11/23/2014 - 8:41am

    Getting right to the heart of the matter...

    "Broadening who votes and who is able to vote is our goal now. Not trying to attract those who cling to their hatred. It isn't worth it."

    And my measly two-cents... Jim Webb is better as VP material.

    Thank you Teresa...

    ~OGD~

     


    by oldenGoldenDecoy on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 2:35am

    I served in the military when he was Sec. of the Navy.  I can tell you that I have very good reasons why I would never vote for him.  So that said I agree with Tmc. I want the glass ceiling broken too.  I like Warren and Clinton.  I am not happy with all the Clinton bashing. She has worked hard for this country and is more qualified  then most to run for the office.  I am tired of all the disrespect for her and Obama.  


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 2:37am

    I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of Republicans will be supporting her too.

    Shes the gift that keeps on giving. 

    "What difference does it make" 

     "I have a lot of baggage"   @ 29 seconds

    This is what the opposition will be seeing @ 1:17


    by Resistance on Tue, 11/25/2014 - 6:04am

    Yikes, I was unaware of his climate problems. One comment, however, you say that you "don't have the confidence that Webb or any white guy is going to look out for minorities and women", and while I'll admit that history bears you out on that, I also wonder how much Hillary Clinton will do. After all, it doesn't seem that Obama has done that much with regards to helping minorities. (That said, I'm confident that minorities are faring better than they would've under McCain or Romney.) Don't get me wrong - I like Clinton, and I like her more now than I did 8 years ago. I just don't think it'll be easy to undo centuries of institutional sexism (and racism).


    by Verified Atheist on Fri, 11/28/2014 - 2:24pm

    Yes, while Webb's populist rhetoric sounds good and seems to be the voice of white working class discontent his reasoning and solutions for that discontent are also the voice of the white working class. So he bashes immigrants, attacks affirmative action, and attacks environmental regulation. Not to the degree that republicans do but still it's similar.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/28/2014 - 2:50pm

    On the climate issue.

    Some would say you worry to much?


    by Resistance on Sat, 11/29/2014 - 4:26am

    Hi VA. You don't think that this current president has done anything for minorities and women? Well one more time let's go over this:

    1. PPACA, this is the health care law, in case you have forgotten, which has done more for the working poor than any law since Medicaid/Medicare. It's sloppy that you've forgotten this, but you did because it doesn't affect you at all, you already have insurance through your job, as most white men do. Medicaid expansion alone assists the working poor, but so do the insurance subsidies which are part of the law. So this law in particular affects women and minorities who are the most often underemployed and have jobs at places like Walmart, KMart, Target etc, and they don't get insurance through their employers, because 1. it is far too expensive and 2. more often than not these corporations keep employees at part time hours so they don't qualify for health insurance through their employment. It is interesting that you missed the biggest bill to affect the working poor in decades. 

    2 Lily Ledbetter Act, which does help women.

    3. The Obama Justice Department Sues various states and others to protect voting rights for minorities. 

    4. US Justice Department sues on behalf of Muslim Teacher

    5. Eric Holders Civil Rights Legacy

    6. US Justice Department sues Pennsylvania State Police for discriminating against women. 

    I know that Hillary Clinton's justice department will vigorously pursue cases like these. Would Webb's? I have no clue. Would Webb care about women and minorities? In the abstract maybe he would, but the problem is, just like your problem, does he recognize the problem in entirety? Does he understand how important Affirmative Action is and was to protect the working rights of minorities and women?  Let's not forget one of the most important legacies of the Obama Justice Department, when they decided to quit defending DOMA in court. Would a Webb administration have done that? I doubt it. A Hillary Clinton Administration would have done that. I think you just want someone who says the right things, but maybe takes no action, but for me taking action is much more important, and whether or not you recognize what has taken place under this particular administration is mostly a reflection of how none of this would impact you anyway, given, you are in a demographic that doesn't need any assistance.  

    In closing this current administration has done a great deal to attempt to protect the rights of women and minorities, I only linked to a limited number of cases because I could go on all day long. I believe a Hillary Clinton admin would make similar choices. In 2010 Jim Webb called for an end to most Affirmative Action programs.  At the same time he criticized the myth of white dominance... ugh, seriously? I know for a fact that Jim Webb and I are not on the same side of some very serious issues that impact the nation. He will never be my candidate. Never. 


    by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 11/29/2014 - 11:27am

    Good response. Thank you for that.


    by Verified Atheist on Mon, 12/01/2014 - 8:37am

    PS VA, I never stated that any one person can undo centuries of institutional racism and sexism, those the dreams of utopian fools.  Not me and you can't point to anything I've written that states this.  You made that up.


    by tmccarthy0 on Sat, 11/29/2014 - 11:29am

    I was not meaning to suggest that you stated that. I was merely venting about my own personal frustrations and was not attempting to blame you for them.


    by Verified Atheist on Mon, 12/01/2014 - 8:37am

    I remember jim Webb and liked what he had done in the Senate, but I'm quite skeptical about his presidential aspirations. He is one who would have been more productive in the Senate and I was surprised he didn't get back up and try again for the Senate seat he lost.

     

     

    Whereas Elizabeth Warren has cut out a firm niche for herself in the Senate and is quite shy about running for president while everyone wants her to very much.


    by Beetlejuice on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 12:42pm

    Thanks. I like Clinton. And also Warren, but I have questions about her broad appeal.  My feelings, boiled down, are I'm tired of getting sand kicked in my face by the loudmouth opposition.  Wanting a strong primary does not mean, imo, piling on Hillary.  I am concerned about putting all the eggs in Hillary's camp. A strong primary would produce some strong VP possibilities.

    Traditionally the VP is supposed to be the attack dog---which we may well need if Paul or Cruz becomes the VP nominee opposite. I really can't conceive of winning in 2016 with two women on the ticket, Warren or otherwise. So I'm left with the rhetorical questions, assuming Hillary doesn't ride in a tank nor is photographed with a toy boy sitting in her lap in Miami, who is the best attack dog to chop up the Republican nominee and protect our nominee. And God forbid, if Hillary crashes, what's the backup plan.  


    by Oxy Mora on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 2:38pm

    "Wanting a strong primary does not mean, imo, piling on Hillary." - God forbid we might have an intelligent primary based on serious policy issues, rather than whether Bill can keep his pants up or Hill-girl's divisive or that she's a millionaire or that vote as a minority freshman Senator in 2002 for the umpteenth jillionth time.

    "And God forbid, if Hillary crashes, what's the backup plan. " - the irony there is that many considered Obama to be Plan A. "They told me if I voted for McCain/Palin, we'd get a surveillance state, handouts to the rich and endless war in the Mideast. But I went ahead and voted for McCain/Palin, and sure enough, that's what we got."

    The Beltway punditocracy is horribly upset because Hillary isn't speaking out enough for them to trash everything she says and liken her to a black widow spider.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 3:21pm

    Right there was a heap of irony in that sentence.


    by Oxy Mora on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 6:14pm

    I like Hillary but I don't want her to be the woman who breaks the glass ceiling. I would rather a woman who has personally worked her way up through the political ranks to governor and possibly the House or Senate do that. And no, being first lady of a state or even the nation is not the same thing. Neither is demagoguing ones' way to a governorship a la Palin. An academic like Elizabeth Warren will not do for me either, sorry Oxy. I want an old-fashioned political operator like Margaret Thatcher without that brand of conservatism to have the honor of being the first woman to be President.

    I know it is not probable but I still dream it.

     


    by EmmaZahn on Mon, 11/24/2014 - 10:11pm

    Personally, I like Cher, and she's excelled in every role she's taken on, but somehow I don't think it'll happen. The good news is she'll be in shape to run in 2048.


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 11/25/2014 - 1:48am

    Bipartisanship?  Can she really get along with the others side?

    HOPE @ 1:40

     


    by Resistance on Tue, 11/25/2014 - 6:01am

    Yeah, I can see you as a Cher fanboy. She was a great clothes rack and those Bob Mackie dresses in the 70s were to die for. Not really much of a singer without autotune though. Pretty good at basically playing herself in movies. But what she really, really excels at is self-promotion so she may well be able to pull off a run in 2048.


    by EmmaZahn on Tue, 11/25/2014 - 9:29am

    Fanboi is a bit far, but I do think she was some inspiration for Lady Gaga & others, autotune & all - even if I'm not a huge fan nor physical attracted - and I suppose you're right that despite being strong performances, "Come back to the 5 & Dime", "Mask", "Silkwood" and "Moonstruck" are all kinda the same thing. (I thought the female lead in Fisher King was somehow playing Cher playing the same character).

    But it's funny why "self-promotion" is a pejorative here. She handled post-Sonny quite skillfully, and never released a sex tape, had a drug addiction, rode on anyone else' s coattails, AFAIK she's well known for music, acting, fashion & fitness (the last one being partly to survive during fatigue syndrome). I can't think of anyone who's worked harder than her for success, and actresses these days are typically tossed on the dustbin after 40 & female singers have to be considered attractive or they get dropped as well. Who didn't self-promote in these 4 industries?

    Anyway, tough lady, & can imagine she could play politics with the best as well, if she felt like it - just would hope her views are close enough to mine. All that said, my original comment was intended as a joke.


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 11/25/2014 - 2:08pm

    Jim Webb was featured today in a NYT times article by Edsall---"Who will save the Democrats from themselves?" The good part for Webb is a certain elevation in the narrative but the bad part is the Virginia Senate race didn't lend itself to the notion that Webb can net disenchanted elements of the Democratic party, as in the "Appalachian belt", for example.

    Edsall juxtaposes (a word floating around Appalachia) the Democrats' past "Identity  Group" strategy vs. a "class based" (ouch) strategy---i.e., because the Republicans may be reigning in the Tea Party and that's one less scare tactic of use to Democrats in future elections. 

    In any case, there is nothing in the article which would dissuade folks from the notion that Webb is a very intriguing persona for the VP slot. (We've to research the Virginia election further and then get him back on Track A.)

     


    by Oxy Mora on Wed, 11/26/2014 - 10:37am

    This is a long in-depth and critical article arguing for the value of Jim Webb as a candidate for the Presidency. Any strong argument favoring anyone besides the 'inevitable' Hillary but by someone still wanting a Democrat to win must obviously be critical of her as this one certainly is. I share many opinions of the author.   Anyway, Oxy, I recalled this blog of yours and thought this would interest you and maybe some others.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/17/the-last-chance-to-derail-the-clinton-juggernaut/

     

     


    by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 04/19/2015 - 11:05am