wws's picture

    Making Retirement, or Even the Dream of Retirement, Meaningful

    Billy Glad started an interesting discussion last week about  whether or not the Boomer generation should turn over  their power to those who are younger because "it is their turn."
    The initial response by-passed the issue raised in favor of attempting to divine what motivated BG to make such a statement: did he mean it? or was it rabble-rousing?
    Only when that issue was settled -- by consensus among those who have been around TPM for a while -- did the discussion shift to the question raised. Strong opinions voiced by both young and old, resulting in  much food for thought.
    Whether or not  Nicholas  Kristof read that thread, his column in the Times today addresses the same issue:
    Geezers Doing Good
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/opinion/20kristof.html

    And, for those who are still busy working to do good works, but who love nothing better than to  wind down at the end of a busy day by indulging an interest in either fine poetry, or in the theory of parallel, if dysfunctional lives that talented men and women often lead, there is also:

    Yeats Meets the Digital Age, Full of Passionate Intensity

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/arts/design/20dwye.html

    Discuss, or, for your own sakes, go out with someone you care about to enjoy a summer day.... or at least read a related sonnet:

    "Shall I Compare Thee To A  Summer's Day
     
    Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
    Thou  art more lovely and more temperate.
    Rough winds do shake the darling buds  of May,
    And summer's lease hath all too short a date.
    Sometime too hot  the eye of heaven shines,
    And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
    And  every fair from fair sometime declines,
    By chance or nature's changing  course untrimm'd;
    But thy eternal summer shall not fade
    Nor lose  possession of that fair thou ow'st;
    Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in  his shade,
    When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
    So long as men  can breathe or eyes can see,
    So long lives this, and this gives life to  thee."
        --  William Shakespeare (1564-1616)
     


    Comments

    Grammar alert: "...the Boomer generation should turn over their power..." should read "...the Boomer generation should turn over its power..." Error = suitable penance for pompous pedantry. Shall now go out to bathe a horse and muck his stall, as activity more suitable to actual level of brainpower.


    Generational stereotyping is always alive and well and I'm not referring to the BG column but instead to isolated remarks one reads here and there where the "Boomers" are subjected to withering criticism.

    There seems to be an attitude we should turn over the family car keys to the 18-35 year old demographic, that we have ruined the planet, are out of ideas, etc, etc.,

    And there is guilt by association: Bush is a boomer; therefore boomers are bad; QED!

    We glorify the generation before the boomers ("The Greatest Generation") and dismiss or even ridicule their children.

    What's behind it all?


    I don't think it can be argued (at least successfully) that the majority of our 'older' generation has pretty much historically screwed the political pooch. (As supported by our apathy, abdication of responsibility to stand up and speak out, make changes, et al.)

    Perhaps we should get half votes and those under 55 a full vote in elections?!? (Randomly picked the age.)

    All I know is that what we have or haven't been doing has delivered horrific consequences. And evaluating the odds that the majority of us over a certain age will do better, well - what do you think?

    Good post and rec'd. Thanks WWS!


    I don't think anyone is advocating turning the car keys over to "18 to 35" year olds, but the 35 to 50 year olds? Sure. We're ready. The Boomers should know because they raised us.

    As Aunt Sam points out, it is hardly a debatable point that the previous two generations - World War II & Boomer - made a pretty good mess out of the transition to the 21st century, technology and a more sustainable future.

    Jimmy Carter was warning those generations about this shit 30 years ago.

    Granted, both generations did tremendous good in the civil rights era, but that doesn't make the enormous financial, militaristic and human rights violations they have allowed to fester for the last 40 to 50 years just go away.

    Burned at the stake? Not hardly. But we should be a little pissed at the enormous amount of work on our shoulders as a result of earlier mistakes by our parents and grandparents. That's not to say we won't need the Boomers help, but we have to be honest about what it is we need to fix.

    I understand that it sucks that change always starts with an inventory of past misdeeds and how to fix them. Gen X isn't blameless either, it's just that we were powerless for most of the period we are discussing, so the blame is proportional to the amount of time that one could have done something about it.


    Erica Jong thinks we are the "whiplash" generation. Most of her emphasis in this regard pertained to gender roles (how women of our age are torn between the sexist values we learned from our stay-at-home mothers, and the egalitarian values we made possible for our daughters, while failing to find and enjoy a genuine comfort zone in either.
    But the whiplash theory also applies to politics. We are the generation raised with the my-country-do-or-die principles of the late 50's to mid 60's, but who are now united, I think, in sadly, but more wisely, absolutely opposing the war in Iraq. But in that whiplash sensibility, we are also the generation that, in between, was divided in its responses to Vietnam. Some of our generation clung, predictably, to the parental values of the Greatest Generation, and signed up, or were drafted and accepted that draft to serve in Vietnam. And some of us neck-swiveled at that decision, took a stand on principle, as we later did on gender role assignment, and said: "Hell, no."
    So part of our generational psyche is to have a split personality. George W. represents the throwback to my-country-do-or-die (although in his case it is my-country-is-always-right-so-you- young-folks-die). But the rest of us can never go back; sadly though, neither can we completely belong to a world in which these shifts in perspective are taken for granted.
    We are, in a sense, out of synch with everyone else. And it has been a shock to many of us for that not to be recognized, to be lumped together -- quite possibly, as you suggest, because of Bush -- with our parent's generation, when we did so much -- including the elimination of the draft -- to change things for the better, for ourselves, post-Vietnam, and certainly for our children.
    There's a rather wonderful, if bittersweet irony in this. I can remember my father's dismay that we did not seem to recognize the sacrifices his generation made to create a safer, more prosperous world for our sakes. And now, if you will forgive the triteness of the phrase, I understand what he felt. Because "I never thought I'd see the day" when our efforts -- which seemed to us to be so hard won and which, for our time, were so radical -- would be regarded unilaterally by our children as a botched job, that only the young can correct.
    Never mind. So be it. Just let me know what I can do to help.
    Side note: thank you for the compliment on another thread, which I think was from Dante?


    side note addressed to LuxUmbraDei


    Jason:
    You are quite right that we blew paying attention to alternative energies, etc. You would be quite right if you said, although you didn't, that we spent a lot of years, post-Vietnam, and post efforts towards ERA, feeling entitled to focus on material success. And if your generation manages to create order out of the chaos we face that is, as you suggest, not your doing, then I will be interested to see if your generation also gets that post-effort entitlement flaw, as the two generations before you did.
    Here's one difference between your grandparents'generation and ours: your grandparents, our parents, never approved of your parents, our Boomer generation's, efforts to change the world. But we do approve of your desire to do it. And approval, Jason, as well as support,is a mighty gift; take it as a bonus and use it well.


    I think it's time to hand it over, Aunt Sam. The problems we face now are too big for anyone who does not have a fresh focus, a reliably razor-sharp mind, a completely subliminal global perspective and the limitless energy it will require for a very long haul. I'm not giving up my whole vote, though.. or the opportunity to express opinions, however flawed they may be.


    the long response above was also addressed to LuxUmbraDei. Reply posiiton Sigh.


    We glorify the generation before the boomers ("The Greatest Generation") . . . . Lux Umbra Dei

    That's the Boomers' parents generation.

    The generation before the Boomers' is the Silents (1925-1945)-- you know, the people who led the civil rights movement, the "Beats," Miles Davis, Elvis and the Beetles, the ironists and the post-modernists -- those folks.


    Some of our generation . . . accepted that draft to serve in Vietnam. And some of us neck-swiveled at that decision, took a stand on principle . . . . wwstaebler

    Necks stopped swiveling pretty quick once Nixon ended the draft, though.

    After that, it was all "Me Generation." Gordon Gecko doesn't do social activism -- or pay his fare share of taxes.


    Yes it was Dante, one of my favorite passages...quoted in the Italian to retain a certain "sharpness" to the observation (where an English translation descends into a mawkish sentimentality, or at worse, devotional piousness.)

    Good observations on our generation's conflicted and divided self. I don't believe Generation X is any less divided.

    It seems to me unwise to take the state of the country and attribute all of its features to a generation or even two or three preceding ones. This is to ignore inherent speed limits on social change in large societies.

    There are enormous institutions and social/cultural forces that are resistant to fixes and have their own ponderous momentum. The human environment has an evolving dynamic that is not entirely responsive to each generation's idealistic attempts at reform.

    Teddy Roosevelt's generation tried trust-busting, then later FDR's generation, and then our generation. Yet the corporate power is stronger than ever...is it because our four generations "failed" in some way? And more particularly, is it the Boomer generation's fault that they lacked plenary power to make everything right by some kind of fiat? Or that their reformist energies were opposed by individuals in generations before and after theirs and, most importantly in their own? Or lastly, that being human, the boomers were not of a single unitary outlook on the world, economics, social relations, and what the good society looks like?

    I assume that the following generations have as much idealism and reformist energies as ours did. But I also assume that they have the same internal divisions ours had. This leads me to think they will have the same results every previous divided-against-itself generation has produced: moderate but not revolutionary progress.



    If only we can count on them to be all that you say. Deep breath taken, thanks for that.


    A distinguished group.


    I am confused by your references, Ellen, yet you have brought up a good point -- each generation has cusp sub-sets, who have are transitional, who tend to make their mark culturally, rather than politically.
    The years you cite (1925-45)refer to the birth and coming of age of the Greatest Generation, who fought and won WWII, with all those unquestioning patriotic values. So it was the half generation behind them, their much younger brothers and sisters, who were the "beats" in the early 50's who loved jazz. Similarly, it was those who followed them, who were born a few years before the Boomers and who came of age in the late 50's, who loved Elvis and American Bandstand. And so,it was not until their younger siblings (OK, my demographic) came into themselves and went wild for the Beatles (and later Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane, the Who, the Doors, etc.) that a full generation had passed between Greatest Generation and the Boomers.
    So your lumping of these various subsets together is interesting, as if there were not great cultural divides among them, subgroup to subgroup. Which makes me wonder what nuances I have missed in the difference between GenX, Gen Y(is that right?) and the Millenials. If you know, please explain it to me. As ignorance is not bliss, at any age.


    Hoo boy. As a generation Xer, positioned somewhere between the boomers and the millenials, let me just say that I don't trust *any* of us, but *especially* not those millenials.

    I'm not completely certain whether they are human beings at all, or just wetware accessories that you can plug into Facebook. In fact, I suspect that what they really are is adapters. You use one of them whenever you need to connect a Facebook page to an iPod.

    I'll stop right there, before I turn into Mr. Edmund Crankypants.

    No, more seriously -- each generation has its own strengths to contribute. They have enthusiasm, and the ability to stay up past nine. We have perspective, wisdom, skills, money, and the ability to refrain from hooking up with attractive GOP operatives posing as Obama volunteers.


    Can we count on them to be all that, Barefooted? I don't know. Perhaps those are unrealistic expectations as a package. But if the alternative is to leave things in the hands of people like me -- when I have, this year, begun to misplace my keys, then the keys to the kingdom belong in the hands of those whose focus and self-confidence has not yet been shaken. Which is not to say that they may not err on the side of cocksure hubris... the perfect age, in fact, seems to be Obama's age, on the cusp between Boomer and GenX.(I realize that W. was only 52 when he took office, but he may as well have been 35-40, as he suffers from arrested development. Correction, with apologies to that age group, of which Jason is one: W. may as well have been 19 or 20, as the frat boy never died. only know that I, as one Boomer among many, have started misplacing my keys


    "....attractive GOP operatives posing as Obama volunteers." Do whom do you refer, Alex? Did I miss a blood-racing post today?


    OK -- that would be "to whom do you refer.." Way too many typos and errors, so it's time for me to rest my case, or lose it. Carry on. And thanks for joining me.


    I am Obama's age, within less than a year. My birthday is six days after his. Yet I'm not sure those my age are the ones who matter most in this election. Note that I say "in this election." The very young, new voters are the ones I find exciting. And the ones that can begin to enact the change we all desire. However, the rest of us, all of us, need to be prepared to sustain the hard work.


    No, you didn't miss a post. I just have an active fantasy life.


    With attractive GOP operatives?


    I know. There aren't very many of them. Especially since blondes aren't my type.

    Just look what you get when you search for "attractive GOP" on Google images. It's not hopeful.

    http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=attractive%20GOP&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi


    How about when someone proves him/herself extremely competent to take over the keys, whatever age, that that is the qualifying quality? I don't weed out bands according to how old they are, I don't recall ever thinking "Oh, Clinton, yea, he's closer to my age" or "yuck, Bob Dole, he's so old...", I've interviewed people from 18 to 72 for positions without being fazed by age.

    Some people can stay relevant for decades, others have a shelf-life of a few months. I don't have a generation. I have a sub-segmented market niche that includes age, gender, ethnicity, education, geographical location, religion, entertainment preferences and smoking/drinking habits. I don't identify with an age group, I identify with my peculiar opinion and preferences. Anyone from 5 to 95 can join me and as long as they know to laugh at my jokes and nod their heads yes to my ideas, they can be part of my cohort and get my vote. I'm just looking to be catered to by my politicians, not to identify with them.


    Desidero:
    You said, "I don't have a generation. I have a sub-segmented market niche that includes age, gender, ethnicity, education, geographical location, religion, entertainment preferences and smoking/drinking habits."
    Fantastic -- by revealing your belief in demographics as the most relevant form of identification, we finally know who you are in real life. And who among us would have suspected that you are Marc Penn?


    I'd give you a witty riposte, but my organs are fighting over whether I hit the bathroom or make a sandwich. To be so conflicted without a good polling machine.


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