The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Obama greeted by confederate flags.

     

    Yesterday I might have driven the back way over the Red River in Texas and scooted on up to welcome the President in Durant, Oklahoma---which is usually referred to simply as "Choctaw"---meaning the large casino complex which is the hub of the town.

    I actually declined a couple of invites to have lunch in Boston with the President and fifteen hundred of his closest friends and supporters. I passed on the lunch because I didn't want to take $5 K out of my retirement fund, and also, I don't fly, especially half way across the country from Texas. I would like to attend an Obama event some day but I'm glad I missed his trip to Oklahoma.

    By now everyone has seen snippets of confederate flag waving Oklahoma folks, some from Texas, who greeted the President in Oklahoma and who as of this moment are still out there.

    As an old white guy who grew up in Ohio and has seen this country in its breadth and width, hear me out. I played high school football against the likes of Massillon, Ohio and Mansfield. Get what I'm saying? Appalachia and Scots Irish are in my blood. I eat grits. I crumble up cornbread in a glass of buttermilk and eat it with a serving spoon. So, Bud and Mary flag waver, I know you from the inside out.

    If you are waving a Confederate flag at this time, at this black President, it is an expression of racism. Now I grant you that it may also be an expression of Southern pride---but so saying doesn't erase the racism part of it. So if you can't erase the racism context, and knowing how wrong that context is---let's assume you think racism is wrong---why wave the flag at all?  If you wave it, you know it's an insult---because the racism is embedded and the man you are waving it at is black.  You weren't waving it at him?  You just thought it was a good time to drive from Texas and join a rally? Why yesterday? Why a black President?

    Knowing that at best it's an insult to wave a confederate flag at a black man---I assume you know this---, you, flag waver, must be highly motivated to do it. What motivates you?

    O.K. you want to express Southern pride. I suppose you have a history of attending rallies, even one's with no flags. You celebrate the great authors, like Shelby Foote. You may have even written a research paper on a civil war battle. You toured Gettysburg. You are an entrepreneur whose barbecue sauce is now marketed across the country. You have restored an antebellum mansion in the heart of Mississippi. You have supported charities in the South. If there is a museum in the South which needs funds, you have contributed serious money to get it on it's feet---cause most of your life has been spent celebrating Southern pride. You are even jazz enthusiasts and have attended Mardi Gras. You love Antoine's---that's some great cuisine.

    Bud and Mary, did I go too far with the reference to Antoine's---somehow the description of a person with a serious commitment to Southern pride doesn't quite fit you? Does Southern pride really fit you? Just get the idea yesterday?

    Well, cousins from Pike county, Ky., who came to Texas to seek their fortune and are still shit out of luck, what you did with the flag waving is to prove beyond all doubt that you have absolutely nothing going on for your miserable selves. So get your white butts back to work tomorrow and hide your confederate flags, they are a symbol of racism---as pure and simple as cornbread mashed up in a glass of cold buttermilk. Now tell me that don't sound good and
    I'll tell you that waving that flag at a black President ain't racist.

     

     

    Comments

    The Klan is coming to SC to lend support to the Confederate flag on the 18th. The flags and Confederate paraphernalia help point out the bad apples.


    Thanks rmrd. I hope I'm never around one, it would be hard to keep my mouth shut.

    I know we've discussed the flag waving ad nauseam here, but it happened in my back yard and I got a rash on my arm near where the lone star tick bit into me. Whenever that thing itches, I know something's bothering me.


    Well we managed to actually find a black Confederate. He is Andrew Duncomb, an organizer of the Oklahoma rally. The distribution curve can be skewed.

    http://kfor.com/2015/07/15/we-dont-believe-its-a-symbol-of-racism-confed...

    There's always one.


    I also found a Conservative black student who supports the Confederate flag. Byron Thomas defends the flag as an emblem of States' Rights and against ignorant people like the KKK.

    http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/05/black-student-defends-his-conf...

    The Klan took note of their type of nigger Negro and offered Byron partial membership in the Klan.

    Jason Johns, a member of the Patriotic Royal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, has reportedly offered partial membership to Byron Thomas. According to Johns, “I’ve never witnessed a Black man so eager to protect the flag of his ancestral masters. My great grand daddy talked about Blacks like this but I’ve never seen it for myself. My brothers had a quick meeting about this Black boy and we agreed that he would be right for our cause. We are about the preservation of White America and we know that this boy will help us get other Blacks to support us.”

    https://newswatch33.com/bizarre/black-student-embraces-confederate-flag-...

    Byron served as an intern for Senator Tom Scott who remained silent on the issue of the Confederate flag until Governor Haley and Senator Graham told him what to think

    http://gawker.com/heres-the-flag-crazy-senate-intern-email-everyone-in-d...


    Hunter Thompson was out somewhere in the Midwest and saw a picture of Nixon on some old guy's mantelpiece. "hey I see you have a picture of Nixon up there" "No sir, I have a picture of the President of the United States". Thompson felt like a low-down shit after that.

    To rephrase Rumsfeld, you work with the President you have, not with the one you'd like. "Why a black President?" Come on, people stop breathing for the next 2 years until they get a white President so can act different, protest something they care about?

    Yes, it can distinctly be racism towards a black President. Or it can be a protest towards the only President we have. The flag issue was part of Obama's great week, the one the media celebrated as showing how Obama got is game back - so it's fair game for folks who don't agree as well.

    As for me, I hadn't noticed the pictures, I don't read the main news sites that much, but my main feeling is simple, "whatevers". Only so much time to re-fight the Civil War in 2015 - didn't we do that last month? My God, pathetic species we are.


    The great thing about the United States is that now a more diverse set of people have avenues to discuss their opinions. In the past, news was limited to mainly white read sources and white read issues. Minority opinions didn't matter. The "compromise" on the South Carolina flag was the best potion available. People settled for what the white community would allow. Governor Haley and Senator Graham had a sudden change of heart, most likely because corporations who didn't care about the flag before told them that their corporations would do less business with a state considered openly racist. The flag came down. Perhaps you didn't care about Reverend Pinckney's body lying in state under the Confederate flag, many others did and they prevailed. Their is nothing pathetic about removing a flag that only represented slavery and white superiority. The goal of the Confederacy was for blacks to be slaves.

    If you look at Charleston, you find one of the centers of slave commerce. They still profit from the slave trade via tourism today. Taking down the flag was an important step in recognizing the full history of the Antebellum South. Nothing pathetic about including everybody's history. Nothing pathetic about a woman learning how to climb a pole to remove a flag of treason. That was courageous. Quoting scripture on the way down. Moving.

    Their are ongoing battles over education, gerrymandering, jobs, etc. The issues have not been forgotten. Not pathetic about dealing with those issues,

    Leaving the flag where it was and not in a hall with relics? That would have been pathetic,


    What the hell? I made a comment about protesters waving a flag at Obama and/or the President. Did I ask for another rehash on what the flag altercation is about that didn't address my comment whatsofuckingever?

    Robert E Lee felt that the Confederate flags should have been furled and Confederate memorabilia be stored in attics. It matters very little to me how you wanted me to answer your post. They could have waved Swastikas in front of a Jewish President and gotten the same outrage.


    Spare me the fucking history lesson, dude - you've repeated the same fucking point a million times and Lee is still dead and it still doesn't matter in relation to some disaffected white guys wanting to protest to their president in 2015. I would prefer you stop commenting on anything I say unless you can reach into that brain of yours and come up with something new. Broken records don't even exist anymore, but you keep grinding on.

    Peracles, you repeat the same fucking points with the same fucking frequency. Your idiot Confederates are free to fly their treasonous flags. They will get called out on it. Read the motherfucking title of the damned post. The Confederate flag being flown as the greeting for the sitting African-American President is the headline! It is a act of racism is the context!

    If you want another discussion write your own blog. You don't even live in the United States and probably have lost touch with what the people of the United States feel about issues regarding race. It is stupid to criticize me for mentioning the Confederate flag, the Civil War, and insulting the President when the post states that flying the fucking Confederate rag is an act of racism. Stay on point.

    Re-read the post. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

    I will now return to my usual discussion mode. I tried to use language you were capable of understanding.

    To the moderators. I apologize for the personal attack.

    Edit to add:

    It is 2015

    The Heritage Not Hate logo is crap

    Spoiler Alert:

    Atticus Finch was a racist member of the White Citizen's Council

     

     

     


    rmrd, will all due respect, you don't know when to shut up


    Can you state your objections, so I am clear?


    I mean that sometimes it's better--for the blog, for the world, perhaps even for your own sanity--to choose not to respond rather than to chase PP around and around the same old mulberry bush until someone pops.


    Got it


    Great


    I'm with rmrd. You can't have too many confederate flag brawls. If you find it too time consuming to rehash the argument for our pleasure, perhaps you could copy-and-paste your comments from the other thread. Or ask rmrd nicely to repost your comments along with his rebuttals and also the other comments, especially when people started debating about whether flag debates are worth having. Oh fun with flags.

     

     


    LOL

     


    Did Rummy say that? I don't think so.

    He was talkin bout the war and how can he and George W. protected us and the world from Saddam after our Army was about destroyed by Democrats. It couldn't wait, and neither could we.

    No white President wood get by with what NObama has got by with, just cause he is black people support him. He wasnt even born. I wood have been out there two but my Uncle Liberty buried my War Flag and my guns somewhere by the creak cuz of the Jade Hellmet. He was on a drunk when he did it and Im not sure we can find where.


    Trump is that you?

    I'd recognize that logic anywhere


    Well he wood run America like he run his casino, he got all the way to Chapter 11. http://www.cnbc.com/2014/09/09/trump-entertainment-resorts-files-for-cha...


    LOL...


    Presidents are subject to ridicule. When a line is crossed, it can be pointed out. The mayor of a small Washington town called President Obama "Monkey Man" and First Lady Obama "Gorilla Face". His comments are not protected from being called racist because he is talking abound head of state open to criticism, satire, etc. The comments can be called racist. Similarly flying flags with the baggage of the Confederate flag ias a protest to a black President can be called out. They have free speech to fly the flags and there is free speech to push back on the flag.

     


    You know, I was going to write about this.

    You did much better than I would have.

    Nice post!


    As far as I am concerned, what they did was flipping him the bird, spitting in his face and mooning him all in one fell swoop. They were disrespectful, disgusting and yes, racist.

    Yes, all presidents are disrespected to some extent, but I have never seen anything like this, and I'm old.

    My father was born in Mississippi, and my grandmother died in the house he was born in at the ripe old age of 93. I grew up hearing the word nigger on a daily basis. I have southern roots. I NEVER saw a confederate flag in my family's home.

    This had nothing to do with southern pride and everything to do with stuffing their hatred of his race down his throat under the thin guise of southern pride. Pure and simple.

    I am so proud of him I could burst. He has handled the disrespect and hatred with grace, poise and elegance. 


    I can't believe the disrespect that has been shown this President since the beginning.  But one important thing it did do was put the GOP in a self destruct mode. 


    YEAH!

    I cannot even add to this, as I am wont to do. hahahhaha

    I could burst.

    hahahaha

    WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

    Well said!


    LOL...just want to point out the spelling of Massillon not Masilon.  I grew up on Massillon Rd. Route 241 between Massillon and Akron. You are younger then me so I probably never saw your team play. I didn't go there for high school but going to the home games always made a good date. We always had to get our tickets early for the McKinley and Massillon game. 


    Hey, thanks, you youngster. And I forgot Youngstown and Hamilton. On the defensive line, I was lucky I could spell my own name after one of those games. Man, those guys were big.


    Just a few historical notes on Massillon Washington High School.  They started playing foot ball in the late 1890's against Canton Mckinley Bull Dogs.  The Paul Brown "Tiger" Stadium is on the National Historical Register in Massillon. This is the birth place of High School Football. They also was the first school to have a marching band.  That started in 1914.  Then they became a marching swing band.  They have been playing the Tiger Rag ever since with the same original  choreography from the early days. They put on quite a show.  You would not know they were a high school band.  Both these schools have top national high school teams.  


    Thanks, I didn't know of that history.

    Woody Hayes had a direct pipeline to the school.


    Mother Jones has a good picture of the group with the flags.

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/07/obama-greeted-by-confederate-flags-oklahoma-city

    ​Not much of a article but it does say that the group was "Confederate lives matter."