The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Reasonable gun storage

    Ok, so it seems to be legal to keep a loaded gun on your nightstand in most or all states, with some exceptions for those who live in California.

    I'm going to go way out on a limb and propose that we make a federal law that if a gun is to be kept within 20 horizontal feet of a room where people sleep, the ammunition must be kept in a small biometric or combination safe, separate from the weapon itself. Call it a "clip-keeper."

    If adhered to, this rule would make child gun deaths far less likely, while still permitting self defense. One could not, admittedly, pull one's gun from under the pillow and shoot an intruder at a moment's notice, but this seems like a small compromise in the service of an obvious benefit in safety.

    Thoughts? Please, as in the previous thread, try to keep comments on topic.

    Comments

    I already told you that I do not have a gun and have never had a gun.

    The problem I have is with the government coming into our homes.

    On the other hand, there are civil 'remedies' in case someone in the family grabs a gun and shoots someone.

    I wrote a long time ago about a five year old bringing a gun to school in his back pack.

    The gun fell and went off.

    And a baby was injured.

    In that same blog I noted that the police arrested people elsewhere who had their guns just sitting all over the house including guns on their pool table.

    And the other day I noted that some wonderful parents sent their eleven year-old to school with a gun for protection and the kid used it to comically assault his fellow students.

    There must be consequences to our actions.

    And therefore your idea of prosecuting people for leaving their weapons in plain sight is fine with me.

    You cannot just let your vehicle rest anywhere you wish according to the laws of 50 states.

    I am sure that had the Sandy elementary school massacre not been part of matricide, there would be suits against the owner of the weapons that caused the mass homicides.

    There probably will be many suits any because attorneys salivate at these types of things.

    I am not against new laws stressing that if one owns a weapon of mass destruction; that individual has taken on onerous responsibilities with regard to those weapons.

    That's all I got unless I misunderstood your message.

     


    My mom used to teach behavioral disordered children (elementary school) and at a birthday party one of the children picked up his uncle's gun and was playing with it and killed one of the other children. It still makes me sick to think about.


    What a tragedy!

    Like most of the time I find myself without words.

    Damn.

    If that had been my little boy or girl...I probably would be in prison today because I would have sought out those negligent parents and killed them.

    These parents and/or the uncle were guilty of negligent homicide for chrissakes!

    No wonder it makes you nauseous. 

    What a tragedy!


    And yet, much of the time no charges are pressed. I think we should change that.


    What if the "biometric safe" was the gun itself? I.e., what if the gun used one of those palm-print detection mechanisms (or an RFID alternative) that only fired if the owner's hand was holding it? This would have at least two benefits:

    1. People who don't have authority to fire the gun couldn't fire the gun
    2. The police would be able to provide strong evidence as to who fired the gun if it were used in a crime

    I don't have strong feelings about guns in general, but I do have strong feelings that there's a need for compromise.


    Thanks VA. From what I understand, the technology to do the palm print guns is very expensive, while a small ammo keeper would be more reasonably priced. But, maybe if a person really wants a gun for self-defense, the palm-print guns would be the way to go.

    (By this I mean that if a person wants guns for hunting or second amendment reasons, those could be stored away in safes, whereas the gun that met the biometric security requirements for self-defense would not need to be in a safe.)

    Cynically, I suspect that the NRA may be persuaded to support certain initiatives that would involve selling a new type of gun-related product. Free Enterprise = Freedom, you know.


    Your proposal is a way of saying that a gun may not be kept for protection against intruders. Guns will be banned and confiscated before (some) gun owners will obey a law that says they have to keep their gun unloaded and the ammunition ten minutes away.. If you allow guns for protection it is  a pretty silly thing to ask.


    I wasn't thinking ten minutes away at all. I was thinking of a very small biometric clip container that could only be opened by the gun owner. Both gun and "Clip Keeper" could be kept right next to the bed if desired, and the only tradeoff in self-defense would be the time required to open the "Clip Keeper" and load the gun when necessary. In fact, the only person who could load the weapon would be the rightful owner. (Or perhaps the owner's spouse, if you had two clip-keepers :^)

    An unloaded gun is really nothing more than a club, much safer than a loaded one...especially if it's picked up by a child, who can't open the "Clip Keeper."

     


    The NRA has safety training programs, which strongly urges, that all firearms be stored properly

    In a home, with the presence of guns and children, it is the parent’s obligation, to use a sensible way, to address the safety issues.

     "Not-so Safe-Storage Laws: The only ones 'safe' are the intruders,"

    In truth, all states have reckless endangerment and negligence laws which apply to guns, drain cleaner, knives, vodka, or anything else that might cause injury in the hands of a small child. Even without an HCI-mandated gun-lock law, parents know plenty of ways to keep items away from children without using mechanical locks.

    The significant danger of gun-storage laws was brought home in an August incident in Merced, California, where a pitchfork-wielding man attacked Jessica Carpenter's 7-year-old brother and 9-year-old sister. It's neither a surprise nor a coincidence that the cause of this tragedy went unreported by the national press.

    Jessica's father had kept a gun in the home, and his children had learned how to fire it. Jessica, age 14, is a very good shot. But by California law, the gun had to be locked up when the parents weren't home. So, when the murderer attacked, Jessica wasn't able to retrieve the gun to save her siblings. She ran to a neighbor, and begged for help. By the time the police showed up, the 7-year-old boy and the 9-year-old girl had been stabbed to death with the pitchfork.

    We are told that "reasonable" trigger-lock laws are the cure for firearm accidents and gun thefts. What we are not told is that trigger-locks won't stop 10-year-olds, who can pop them off with screwdrivers, or break them with hammers. Such locks certainly won't stop determined criminals. So just who is the target of these "reasonable" gun laws, and what's their real purpose?

    “Rather than saving lives, could it be that trigger-lock laws are intended to condition Americans into believing that firearms aren't acceptable for self-defense, or worth the bother?"

    Long ago, Sir Walter Raleigh wrote that the "sophisticated and subtle tyrant" will "unarm his people, and store up their weapons, under pretence of keeping them safe."


    "The NRA has safety training programs, which strongly urge that all firearms be stored properly."

    And yet, people ignore these programs.

     

     

     


    Yes, some do ignore programs designed to safe lives

    Would you clarify which people, or are you lumping all homo sapiens into the ignore group?

    Just as I cant make people, give their kids vaccinations, although the program that is designed, urges all to take advantage of the program 

    I suppose the day will come when those who refuse, will be forced to comply, in order to save lives.  

    There goes individual liberties, the government will direct your choices.

    The Government knows best.


    Sometimes the government does know best.  The government is of, by and for the people, not just you and me.  Societies have to have governing bodies.  You may not like all that your government does but try doing without it for a day and see how you manage.


    Thalidomide?  Nuclear testing on soldiers?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment


    Thalidomide was the result of lax government oversight. Rules stiffened as a result.


    As I said, Resistance (and you apparently missed), you may not like what they do sometimes but try doing without them for a day.


    I didn't miss it Ramona.

    I believe in the apocalypse,

    Try surviving a day when anarchy rules. When those who have the arms roam the streets. I recall the history of ancient Jerusalem under siege by the Romans; NO ONE  could escape. No food in, No one out. Gangs ruled; confiscating everything from the meek.

    As someone pointed out about Zombie attacks, it wont be zombies, it'll be our neighbors trying to survive.

    Scores killed in multiple Pakistan bombings, mass shootings, NOAA telling us the storms are getting bigger and more violent.  

    The folks in Washington can't chew gum and walk, let alone solve our financial crisis and they want to tackle Gun Control, instead of focusing on a very real and imminent threat

    What are we doing, to prepare for the next Storm Sandy? But instead Gun control sucks all the oxygen out of the room, diverting our National attention away from thousands upon thousands who could be impacted.

    I wonder if the folks devastated by Hurricane Sandy, thought about a day without government and whether anyone would show up to help?

    Imagine the anger if NO help arrived.