The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Republicans Reject Their Own Plan on the Debt Ceiling

    By rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 9:22am |

    Ezra Klein has an interesting little blurb on how the Republicans rejected a plan by the Obama administration that reduced the deficit by 2.4 trillion. 2 trillion came from spending cuts and 400 million came from tax increases. Tax increases were 17% of the plan. The plan was rejected by the Republicans.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/republicans-reject-t...

    What is amazing is that the Republicans walked out on a plan that essentially had been their own four months ago. The GOP plan at that time consisted of 85% spending cuts (compared with 83% in the Obama plan) and 15% tax increases (compared with 17% in the Obama plan). They detailed the plan in a paper by the Republicans on the Joint Economic Committee, "Spend Less, Owe Less, Grow the Economy.."

    http://www.speaker.gov/UploadedFiles/JEC_Jobs_Study.pdf

    There was even a graph supporting the spending cut/tax  increase ratio. The GOP now wants tax cuts off the table. As Klein points out you cannot negotiate when your opposition rejects something that they proposed.

    This issue came up today because a Republican acquaintance said that Obama was not listening to what the Republicans were saying on the debt ceiling. Obama was just on a reelection tour.

    No, her mind wasn't changed when challenged with facts. It then became that both political parties were at fault.

    Comments

    President Obama warned that kittens and puppies will starve to death if the debt ceiling is not raised. http://spnheadlines.blogspot.com/2011/06/washington-d.html

     


    by Al Dente (not verified) on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 9:53am

    Interesting, isn't it?   Republicans propose A, Democrats propose B, Obama eventually offers A.

    And lo and behold, Republicans retract proposal A and move onto proposal C.

    Not a shocking outcome, really, to anyone who has ever been in a negotiation.


    by Dan Kervick on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 10:27am

    I would feel better about the negotiations if they were presented in a truthful fashion more often, like Klein did in  his article, rather than saying Obama was a d*ck as Mark Halperin did yesterday.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 10:46am

    It would be totally in their character for the Rethugs to demand permanent tax cuts as part of the deficit 'reduction' package, at the highest income levels of course.

    It's their money, their country, their War President's wars, their George W.'s financial collapse, but it's not their deficit.


    by NCD on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 10:44am

    I have republican friends who will say it is both parties when backed into a corner. But I have noticed that they are paying more attention to things after I keep pointing out the facts that they can look up. I am still waiting for one to admit they voted for Rick Scott. He is so bad that the base is embarassed.

    by trkingmomoe on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 11:03am

    I too have noticed that the argument becomes: "Both parties do it" when facts are presented to Republicans.

    The taxation aspect is very interesting since polling shows that the majority of Americans do agree with increasing taxes on the upper 10%.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 11:21am

    I am sick of this both sides are liars agument.

    Two hours after Halperin put his foot in it, rush was screaming Dick Hussein Obama throughout his program.

    To compare the lies perpetrated on FOX every hour of every day to presentations on MSNBC is ridiculous!

    And to compare the attempts as negotiations by the dems to the non attempts by the repubs is blasphemy!

     


    by Richard Day on Sat, 07/02/2011 - 4:26pm

    The real problem is that now everything has to be fact checked. Heck, there is even a debate about how many children Bachmann actually had had under her wing. Why would someone lie about adoption?

    The Ryan plan was presented by multiple pundits as the "adult" plan". Now we get Haperin's comment. If Halperin is an editor deciding what goes into Time, how can we trust the magazine?


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/02/2011 - 4:50pm

    The same thing happened with Dubya in his second term, as the wars went on and then the economy collapsed, in a marketing move of repackaging the same product with a new name, Republican politicians started calling themselves members of 'a new breed of conservatives'. Meanwhile, George W., The Saddam Getter, who they had all enthusiastically voted for twice, was dismissed as 'not a conservative', or even called a liberal.

    I don't think arch conservative Rick Scott will have the opportunity to be re-branded by himself or by the Florida GOP.


    by NCD on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 11:41am

    Your friend answered your question based on facts she believes are true. It boils down to which set of facts one believes ... those that support your point of view or those that collide with it. Most people select those that cause the least amount of mental stress. Remember the Star Trek episode ... Let That Be Your Last Battlefield ... where one alien was black on one side and white on the other and the other alien had the same colors but on the opposite sides?

    The difference is pointed out by Bele to a perplexed Captain Kirk who asks what is the difference between them, to which he replies, "Isn't it obvious? Lokai is white on the right side. All his people are white on the right side

    Bele was black on the right side.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield

    I shalln't bore you with the details but even when they found out they were the only two survivors of their planet, they still had to fight over who was superior over the other.

     


    by Beetlejuice on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 12:00pm

    I agree, people gravitate towards news sources that support core beliefs. When challenged, people will double down on their beliefs even if the face of facts to the contrary.  The rejection process is now aided by Fox News who will mold the news in a fashion that supports her viewpoint. The facts will be rejected in favor of the Fox reporting.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 12:16pm

    I remember that Star Trek episode. Frank Gorshin's character, Bele, felt simply superior.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 12:29pm

    The perfect analogy. Note too each was trying to convince the crew members of the validity of their argument hoping to turn the ship's crew against the other once they reached their home planet.


    by Beetlejuice on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 1:16pm

    Once you get to understand a character like Bele, you can often generate a predictable Pavlovian style response that can be amusing. If you tell a Bele character that you don't like certain words, you can rest assured that Bele will respond with the words that you find objectionable.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:07pm

    sounds like an Pavlov dog stimulus-response reaction in reverse


    by Beetlejuice on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:37pm

    You are free to your perspective. Bele was about to tell us about his regimental colors from an 1860s perspective. You might have missed that.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 5:39pm

    I was focusing on the Republicans and the debt ceiling and that the GOP was not negotiating in good faith. You wanted to go down the Bele road. I guess my answers were not satisfactory?


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/02/2011 - 9:10am

    Could it be the Republicans know the rich will take their money and go somewhere else? They don’t need to live in America.

    Corporations don't need factories in America.

    Once the bankers and their rich friends were bailed out; we of the poor and middle class lost our leverage.

    We can huff and puff and threaten to blow down their house, but to no avail. The rich don’t need AMERICA.

    Corporations don’t need America any longer.

    Sure they’ll buy our raw materials, just like any other colonizers in the past.

    The bailout screwed the working class, PURPOSELY. Capitalism was saved, the peasants be damned.

    Capital is free to go wherever it is more profitable.  

     http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/dose-truth-david-frum-10907#comment-126873


    by Resistance on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 7:10pm

    In past posts, I have noted that, in general, blacks are more optimistic about the future of the country than many whites. Perhaps it because there is some knowledge about the history of blacks in the United States passed from generation to generation. There is a sense of how hard the struggle has been transmitted to the next generation.

    You may not realize that organized hoodlums were used to physically assault workers who were trying to unionize to improve working conditions. Women and children had to work in sweat shops to receive meager wages. Union leaders were targeted  with violence. Women and children died in a sweatshop fire because the doors were padlocked shut to insure that they couldn't take breaks. There was no easy escape.Women and children died after they jumped from upper stories of the sweatshop and shattered bones and macerated soft tissue as they hit the ground. The struggle has always been difficult.

    People didn't just lay out a laundry list of everything that was wrong  and give up. They got off their behinds and organized.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 7:34pm

    Greek uprising a portent of things to come.

    http://dagblog.com/politics/debt-ceiling-dumb-show-10939#comment-126879

    They got off their behinds and organized.

    I see a future of organization alright, organized into armed gangs?  

    Those gains we made, will be looked upon as the good ol days.

    The reset button is about to be pushed.

    "A tribulation the world has never seen nor will ever see again".

    America will become another Somalia with warlords ruling. 

    In case you havent noticed;  the rich are leaving or have the means to escape and the corporations have left.

    When Americans sort it all out, maybe they'll be more .....compliant or destoyed ?


    by Resistance on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 8:08pm