Great stuff oleeb!

I'm going to click on all of your links and...just....do....it!

I wish I could afford to just fly up there for this... Thanks for letting us know. I will spread the info.

Let me offer a "devil's advocate" perspective relevant to this and other threads discussing health care options; I do this to stimulate thought and discussion. In the interests of full disclosure, however, I'll admit that in my heart of hearts, single payer appeals to me on the basis of fairness and a sense of community. I don't believe it's a viable political option on a national scale at present, but further discussion and advocacy may incline an increasing number of states to experiment with it, thus enhancing the prospect that it might become viable nationally a few decades from now.

That said, I also believe that the claims for the superiority of single payer over other universal options are exaggerated. The following link (and the links within it) provide a starting point for detailed comparisons of all these options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

If one pursues the information available from this source, a number of points emerge. Universal health care is the norm for the industrialized world, but single payer is not. Rather, as an alternative, some nations (e.g., Germany) utilize a mixture of public/private health care financing. The public component dominates, but although "public", the insurance is not government-managed. In that sense, these plans resemble some of the public/private mixes that have been suggested for U.S. Healthcare reform.

The most salient point that one can extract from the details is that whether they are single payer or goverment-independent public/private, these plans typically cost about the same per capita, and yield similar health care outcomes. In each respect, they do far better than the U.S.

I haven't scrutinized all plans in sufficient detail to go beyond the above generalizations, but I think the comparibility of single payer and alternative systems with a public component should help us temper our rhetoric on this issue, so that we avoid stigmatizing those who are unwilling to conclude that single payer is the only defensible health care choice.

For me it's about the argument and the values that we argue for because I believe the argument Obama is making undermines the most important value.

The argument for single-payer is that ALL Americans are entitled to healthcare. The VALUE is the universal healthcare. Obama is not making that argument. His argument is that he is going to cut healthcare costs and he laying out hundreds of billions in cuts to do so. He is making the right-wing's argument for them. They've won the debate. The most important VALUE is cost reduction.

Right now, my wingnut governor is trying to slash the state healthcare budget. Why should people oppose him? He's making the same argument as Obama. Costs must be cut.

Tomorrow I will be in downtown Chicago. Anyone in the area is more than welcome to attend. Here is the email I recieved for HCAI (Health Care for All Illinois):

Dear HCAI Members and Friends,
When President Obama launched the current health reform debate, he said single-payer was "off the table."
Last month, doctors, nurses and paitents put single-payer on the table in the Senate and House when they were dragged from the Senate Finance Committee for demanding single-payer for their patients.
The lesson is clear: The way to keep single-payer on the table is to keep up popular pressure. Help us put the pressure on Obama by joining us for a demonstration at his Chicago appearance before the American Medical Association Demonstration for Single-Payer National Health Insurance
Monday, June 15, 2009 | 11:00 a.m.
Chicago, Illinois
Tribune Tower Plaza | 435 North Michigan Avenue (near the American Gothic sculpture)
The rest of the country is counting on our Illinois Activists! Lets show them what we can do!

If you are in the area, I hope you can join us. If not please call, write, and visit your congressional office to keep the pressure up. Health Care is a Right, not a privilege.

May "The Force" be with you tomorrow!

I wrote both Senators and my Representative about this on Friday. Plus, Oleeb's given me another venue to try and help out.

This is one thing that I think we can really make a stand and try. The more we jump up and down and try and be heard, the better. Besides, there are no 'secrets' that the White House wants to hide here. We know how "efficient" our current health care is. And we know how much money the current health care establishment has in their hands to fight this. But, as bluebell says above, this isn't about costs. It's about values.

Thanks for getting out there.

This is good stuff except for the "Medicare For All" phrasing. That is the worst messaging possible. Medicare is not only going broke, if it isn't folded into the new plan it will bankrupt the country within a decade.

We're not going to get a pure single payer bill this year. What we can get if we apply enough pressure is a public option that'll be a much more attractive alternative for individuals and business alike. If we push hard enough to get that plan only fools and wealthy rightwing ideologues will remain in private plans after a few years. Put a well crafted public plan side by side with private ones and let people compare.

Within a few years Republicans will be couching their langauge, like they do now about Social Security, in terms of "strengthening the system". Sure they'll still be trying to privatize the public plan or gum it up with meanspirited, bureaucratic stumbling blocks, probably to keep "illegals" out of the program, but they will have lost the battle by then.

Thanks, Oleeb, I can not make it but will definitely be sick and use the day to make phone calls to my Sen and Rep's. I think we are going to have keep the intensity up, we have to make that change possible and if we have to drag congress there than I am ready to put the work in.

Hi Oleeb, Already got a reply from one of my Senators. Thought you might want a peek...

Dear ****:

Thank you for contacting me regarding a single payer health care system. I appreciate your taking the time to write.

As you may know, S. 703, the American Health Security Act of 2009, was introduced by Senator Bernard Sanders on March 25, 2009, and was referred to the Committee on Finance. I understand your views regarding a single payer health care system. I agree that we are at a critical point when it comes to our health care system, and that we need to implement major changes. We are finally getting a consensus that this is no longer an issue that can be ignored. Health care should be affordable and accessible to all Americans and this is an area in which Congress can and should do a better job of meeting the needs of the American public. I look forward to working with Congress and President Obama to provide access to quality affordable health care. As a member of both the Finance and Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committees, please be assured I will keep your comments in mind as the Senate debates comprehensive health care reform.

Again, thank you for writing. I hope you will continue to keep me informed of issues of importance to you and your community.

Sincerely,

JEFF BINGAMAN
United States Senator

Phone: (202) 224-5521
Toll-free in NM: 1-800-443-8658
Website: http://bingaman.senate.gov
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Saw this one only today, Oleeb. Thanks!