Sticks and stones.

If you want censure you have to work at it.

Congress works this way: it's all personal. This guy just dug himself a bit of a hole that will be hard to get out of. Both with the White House and with other members of Congress. And the maddening thing is it can simply take the shape of unreturned phone calls. Does this happen? Hmmmm....

Politicians need each other. The art of politics is to understand how to stick the shiv in the other guy (metaphorically speaking to get your way) so it feels good to him.

Sometimes I'm surprised here at TPM. For all the political wonks, there is sometimes a lack of awareness how things really work.

Let the situation resolve itself. Trust me, it will -- and to more damage than your mere punitive stance. I don't want more distractions for an already, overly taxed Congress.

Me too.

I also thought about the challenge of sitting through a GWB address with a straight face while he mangled the English language in unexpected and creative ways.

Okay, time for a little thought experiment.

Is what he did worse than... umm.... leaving the scene of an accident where someone died? And then pleading guilty?

Did that bring shame to the Senate? Would you - an out of stater - call for his resignation?

Believe me, Wilson's reward for his behavior is coming. The real issue is that you won't be there to witness it.

There does need to be a public flogging, of sorts. His behavior was out of line and brings shame on us all. He represents us and this country regardless of how he got there. I want to know this behavior is not going to be tolerated in Congress. Where did he learn this? A town hall? Maybe we need to watch the tapes and see where he played this role.

Or maybe he just has a simple case of VD.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/gregorzap/2009/09/vd-and-the-gop.php

We've had people in recent years who have been responsible for things which make what Wilson did pale by comparison. Those persons saw no need to step down so I doubt Wilson will give even a second to considering it. What he really could use is twice weekly therapy sessions for at least six months to work through his issues.

I think everyone missed the message Wilson was making.

Frankly, we all must give our sincere thanks and deep appreciation to Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) for having to courage to tell the President to his face on national TV what those of us in the Democrat Party haven't been able to articulate correctly ... bipartisanship isn't going to work with this Congress.

Which one?

I think the question should be put to the State Bar of South Carolina.

In calling President Obama a liar, Miller has lied. Section 246 of HB 3200 expressly disqualified illegal aliens.

That is sanctionable conduct under the State Bar's rules.

While Miller's Congressional seat is safe for anyone who can throw red meat to a public that still wants to see a Confederate flag flying on the State Capitol grounds.

Check it out at:
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6435911.jpg

Maybe Wilson should have waved that flag during the speech.

We have gone way beyond subtle behind the scenes posturing. The Republicans have made the strategic decision that they are not going to engage in the legislative process because they feel it is more politically expedient to disrupt, obstruct and delay. This has been on full display all summer. Politicians who are tacitly endorsing or even out right promoting flagrant lies like "Obama isn't an American", "Obama is creating death panels" or even "Obama is going to give healthcare to illegal immigrants" are beyond being shamed into obedience.

There is a feed back loop going on where Republican politicians are inciting disrespectful behavior from supporters who then go and escalate it. And now we have on full display the politicians taking that behavior to the next level. Not just Joe Wilson but the congress people showing up with signs and waving copies of their "bills". Even Eric Cantor using his blackberry. A year ago, someone using a blackberry during a presidential address of congress would have inspired outrage. Now we have the people who were up in arms about Obama not wearing a jacket in the office laughing about and tacitly supporting Joe Wilson's behavior. The message is that there is no need to be respectful, respect is something other people need to give to them. They believe their ideas to be superior and view listening to anyone else's as a waste of their time.

The Republicans have recognized that they are in a position of extremely diminished power. So rather than use what influence they do have to affect the legislative process, they are doing their best to destroy the power of the Democrats. And to incite their supporters to behave incredibly badly so as to dominate the conversation and appear more significant and influential than they are. This needs to be stopped. Wilson needs to be called out and disgraced.

You can claim that politics is played with a stiletto not a sledgehammer, but the past year (sorry, past nine) has pretty clearly shown that the Republicans play with sledgehammers. If they can't have it nobody can and the only ones getting knifed are the American people. To follow your advice is to bring a knife to a gun fight. (Sorry for mixing my metaphors.)

Oh, and I believe the word you were looking for is Democratic. Democrat is a noun and Democratic is the associated adjective. I know it is a subtle language usage issue but it's one worth paying attention to, particularly since people intentionally confuse the two as a demonstration of disrespect. It might help to try substituting the words "artist" and "artistic". If both seem to work then you probably want the adjective form.

I think this is an opportunity!!

Wilson's actions last night were a perfect Metaphor for the crap the right has been doing for the last month!

Use it.

Obama said he was going to "Call Out" anybody who was distorting or lying about the Health Care reforms. This is "Call Out" #1. Show his discraceful face, and shame him publicly!

Any lawmaker who says anything similar should be instantly TIED TO Wilson.

Attach as many of them to Wilson as possible!!!

Make EVERY Repuke the EQUIVALENT of Wilson.

Like some others I don't have a problem that Wilson said what he did, how he said it and where. He is a jerk, and he is the one lying, but his outburst makes it abundantly clear to all Americans that there can be no negotiating with the right on health care reform. Even the right knows what asses he made them all out to be with everyone from John McCain to Eric Cantor demanding that Wilson apologize to our president. The president has broad shoulders, he can take a sophmoric catcall and shake it off...as he plows on with reform of our health care system.

Uh, oleeb...much worse actual crimes have been committed in both Houses of Congress. A Senator was hit with a club from behind, sank into a coma, and later served the remainder of his term as a near-vegetable...mostly because they needed his vote. The other Senator got off scot-free. I believe he ended up behind Confederate lines anyway.

No, oleeb, what Wilson did was bad, but not punishable by anything more than peer pressure. And in this climate in DC, that is actually a helluva lot of punishment. He's going to watch as we get even better health care reform than we thought--thanks to Joe Wilson and the outrage he has wrought.

Mission Accomplished! And Obama is about three plays away from winning his first 11-dimensional chess game with the GOP. I admit: I never saw it coming. Life is like that sometimes, no matter how much you know about politics.

"The real issue is that you won't be there to witness it."

Oh, CT, I'm so disappointed. You can do better than this. Normally you're more subtle when you try to sneak a personal dig into an otherwise respectable disagreement with the poster.

It always HAS to be about the other guy's character, doesn't it?

This is'nt about dissing the president, its about decorum. I'm sure there is a tint of racism in his outburst. The kind of thing I expect from those who are inspired by RL, and Hannity. He is a bum, plain and simple. But then, what do you expect for the south.

No question. Absolutely correct.

I understand, and I respectfully disagree. I don't want to be part of a society where the President can't make a speech to a co-equal branch, whatever he wants to say.

people forget that racists like wilson are just representatives of their state.

untill the decent people become the majority these types will be elected.

And what am I calling for other than pressure on him from citizens? I am not calling for any official punishment.

To try and make it even clearer though I think I've been exceptionally clear on this:

I am calling for one step further than what Rep. Clyburn is calling for and I am calling on people to pressure him into that step. I think a number of people have misread what I've called for. The public should demand that he do the honorable thing (which is to apologize and then resign), now that he has disgraced the nation, himself, the House, his party, his state and his constituents.

And on the positive note from JadeZ,

give generously to this Beck-boosting jackass's opponent.

http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/19079

He made $200,000 overnight. Why don't we make it a million?

I just posted this comment of tmccarthy0's blog, but I'll post it again.

Joe Wilson needs to learn that it's Freedom of SPEECH, not Freedom of SCREECH. What did Van Jones call Republicans? Oh yeah...

Exhibit A = Joe Wilson

Lawyer: "Your honor, I'm handing Exhibit A to Van Jones for identification. Mr. Jones, do you recognize Exhibit A?"
Mr. Jones: "Yes, I do."
Lawyer: "What is it?"
Mr. Jones: "It's an a-hole."
Lawyer: "Your honor, I rest my case."

Looks like Van Jones was right. Go figure.

Okay, well...I don't think you've been THAT clear.

And I still assert that your call for pressure for him to resign, in the face of Mark Sanford, from the EXACT SAME STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA, is naive.

He won't resign. That's not all that bad. As they say in AA, even the worst lying-in-the-gutter drunk-every-day alcoholic has SOME USE: As a bad example.

Joe Wilson just yelled his way into American history, but not the way he INTENDED.

I happen to think that Bush's disrespect for my country and fellow citizens was far, far worse. What Wilson did is barely a blip on my radar in a comparative sense. His words didn't kill thousands of people.

Now if somebody would like to let me know what the real standard of conduct is and actually follow it then I'm fine. Joe Wilson screwed up. So did Bush. Congress has decided Bush gets to walk. Joe Wilson broke decorum and for that you would get after him? After what Bush did?

I hope everybody sees the flaw in this.

"How would it go down by the way if this Beck booster got up mid-speech, walked over to the podium during the President's address, unzipped his pants, and took a leak in his direction?"

This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Why?

Because Joe Wilson actually called Obama a liar last night, but Beck would never get anywhere near President Obama to accomplish your little scenario. It wouldn't happen. They'd let him carry a gun, maybe, but not piss on him. You got nothin' with your little example except overheated argument.

You have your opinion as to what should happen to Joe Wilson, and I have mine. Trouble for you is...mine's actually based in REALITY. Yours works only in your own head. Bummer, that.

Frankly, I have not said resigning was suitable. Yes, that would make him a martyr and overplay our hand, but it's not just about sending a message to Congress. It's also about sending a message to the American people that behaving this way diminishes the importance of the work we, the people, do. The town hall agitators diminished the work we, the people, are trying to do.

BTW, this was written only hours after I heard the speech pout here on the Left Coast.

It's okay to say you think Joe Wilson SHOULD resign...

But I fail to see where others in this 'argument' acknowledge the help Joe Wilson just gave Obama.

And I know for a solid fact that Obama knows how Joe Wilson helped him IMMENSELY by calling him a liar in the middle of a speech to a joint session of Congress. And I'll bet Joe Wilson isn't too stupid to understand that, either.

He'll understand it only too well when they call on him for his vote on the soon-to-pass health care reform, and when he loses his election next November.

What the hell is so hard to understand about this? Fuck Joe Wilson. He just made American history, and not the way he would have liked.

Daddy-O, I appreciate your anger toward the lack of emphatic protest to what Dubya did during his Regime, but I would expect it to be played out in places other then the floors of the House or Senate. I think you contradict yourself too. Joe Wilson has become the mop, not the janitor. If the Left had committed the same insult during Dubya's speech, they would have been the mop as well. It would not have achieved our goals, which is not an apology for the Dems not thwarting the Bush regime, but merely an observation.

No he didn't lie, you are though, and the plan only will cover US citizens...

The repeatedly debunked teabagger lies and paranoid nightmares have been given waaaaaaaay too much coverage already...

I think he should and probably will be censured. Resignation is too extreme. And he is clearly being being publicly diminished. Every time he speaks trying to justify himself he increases his shame and makes the situation worse.

But I also think that the members of congress that held up signs and made other audible comments really should be reprimanded, shamed, and/or censured as well.

This type of behavior would never be tolerated by the right if they were in the majority. Period.

And we have already seen that if you give the republicans an inch, they will take a mile.

So, the reason these behaviors must be reprimanded, if not censured strongly, some shame brought upon them is that it will get bigger and worse if nothing is done.

Besides speaking to people who think like you even though the Soviet Union was defeated there still are Ruskis out there trying to destroy us in the name of a communist regime that doesn't exist anymore...

Better go and start building your bomb shelter...those commie nukes might start raining down at any time. Don't forget get a lot of batteries and bottled water...fallout has a very long half life.

Democrats have, in fact, repeatedly refused to add any mechanism for checking whether enrollees or subsidy beneficiaries were, in fact, citizens. Amendments were offered (by Republicans and a few centrist Democrats). This is in the Congressional Record, it isn't a lie, it's a fact.

The bill says it won't cover illegal immigrants. It will, in fact, cover some illegal immigrants (who are, of course, lying about their right to be in the country). Obama's statement amounts to "wink wink nudge nudge"; telling the American people one thing and making sure something else happens on the ground.

I think that's dishonest, don't you?

So, you're saying that, yes, the President lied, and some illegals would benefit from the plan. But that's okay because that's what you want to happen anyway.

Okay. I can see that. I was not, in fact, even implying that I don't think illegals should be covered. I made no positive statement except that the President was dishonest.

Thanks for backing me up.

Maybe we are seeing justice served in an unexpected way.

Bush walks after misrepresenting the facts about Iraq and taking us to war, leading to thousands of deaths.

Joe Wilson breaks decorum, gets hammered by democrats and republicans alike, and will probably lose his election. The nation gets a huge boost toward having a decent healthcare plan.

Democracy is like the roads in NYC. Always under construction with lots of detours. But with perseverance you'll get where you think you want to go. And end up mildly disappointed when you get there.

I didn't mention communists, Russians, or even creeping socialism. I pointed out that the President lied to the country (surely this can't be too much of a shock...).

Quit trying to make this discussion about something else. It's about Joe Wilson's statement that the President lied. At least arguably, it was accurate.

I happen to agree that it should have waited for a press conference the next day rather than being blurted out on the floor of the House. But the hyperbole in the original post and so on is nonsense.

I should dig up some of oleeb's posts about President Bush. I daresay he's disrespected the President a few times himself.

Dunno. Personally I prefer the British hard-ball conventions. Heckling's fine, as long as it doesn't obstruct the dialogue.

Yes, it looks less dignified, but precisely that is the point in a way. It's in your face accountability. The president is not a monarch, he's a servant of the people just like reps in Congress.

Daddy-0, you need to set your bar a littel higher. Wilson's opponent can get all this money AND we can slap him around for days and rub his slime off on the whole GOP. We need to think more like the GOP. Get as much as you possibly can. I stated above, we need to be wary of not overplaying our hand, but let's not lose any opportunities here either. Let's not leave any money on the table. Let's not count our chips ... oh, never mind, I have to go to a Gamnblers Anonymous meeting if I stick with these kinds of metaphors ... and I am not a gambler!!! :-{)>

Speaking of the 'real liars'...He should apologize too. He claims he was just 'taking notes' though...yeah right, notes. That's it, notes. That's the ticket.

I'm all for accoutability, but that was not the time nor the place, is all I'm saying. It was a special occassion. I found it obstructive and it was also insulting, for which anyone should take offense.

One can only imagine the state of the union address in an election year if the Repubs think they can get away with this kind of behavior.

I don't fail to see the politics of it. I don't dispute any of those secondary considerations. But the politics of it is not directly relevant to the post or the point. The political fallout is entirely a secondary issue as far as I'm concerned. I'll repeat, the issue is the disgraceful and unprecedented racist conduct of a member of the House toward the President of the United States during a joint session of Congress.

I don't think we're really disagreeing, Gregor. Given the conventions in place, this was way out of line. Dij and I are just looking at the some of the problems with having those conventions, and the political subtext that sustains them.

Not from the Floor of the House, El Presidente.

What you are suggesting is that because some illegals will slip through the radar, Obama lied. It's absurd. It's like saying we have speeding laws, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, but we don't enforce them everywhere, all the time, and people will exceed the limit, so we are really not opposed to speeding.

What your statement reveals is that either you have a keen interest in preventing any illegal immigrant ever from getting healthcare because of the injustice of it all, or you are determined to paint the President as a liar, ignoring the language existent in the bill. You state it is arguable the President lied. Making an argument and making your point are two different things. You got nuthin'.

NO we're not disagreeing too much. I willmaintain though, that on this occassion, the man has the floor and the nation wants to hear him speak. We have afforded Dubya the courtesy, and I do not think that was wrong. What was wrong was a lack of emphatic objection all along the way. but I also have a feeling that the outrages was ignored by the MSM, if it was made. I think the MSM got tired of people like Kucinich and did not want them to have a headline.

I agree that Joe did the democrats a favor by his outburst. Now, when democrats accuse the republicans of obstructionism, they just bring out the video.

While he does have the right to make an ass of himself and show disrespect for the president on national TV, I am ashamed for him as a parent who is trying to teach her children about respecting others. Did you see Nancy Pelosi's response? When I saw it, I laughed because I have lived that moment when my child treated me or someone else in a rude manner. She seethed the way I seethed. And she looked like she would have pounced and laid into him were she not on national TV, the way I pounced because I could.

We voted for our Congressmen/women because we expect leadership from them. We expect them to act like statesmen/women. We expect manners when listening to the president of the United States. Last night was not the moment to debate health care. Just like you don't debate sin during a sermon. The republicans had all summer to debate, and they chose to obstruct.

I am glad that people are speaking up about their dismay about the lack of respect to the president. I want someone to disagree with him. I want someone to have an honest debate with him about policy that is going to affect our future, but I don't want someone acting like a spoiled child showing disrespect.

Now, Obama has taken the high road and accepted his apology. Let's use this gift to get responsible healthcare reform.

To the contrary. I think Republicans would indeed spend time inventing more ways to inject illegals into the debate. That's why I'm not one of them.

But until there is more than an empty blanket statement in the bill, what Obama said about illegals was dishonest. This bill doesn't even include the safeguards that Medicaid currently has - because amendments adding those safeguards were rejected by Democrats.

Just give him his due. He starred opposite Tom Hanks in "Cast Away".

Hooey!

I think Joe Wilson just provided the YouTube punctuation mark on the Republican's game plan.

We must keep pressing on this lie. Lies are the enemy of reform here.

Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them!

Wilson lied. He continues to lie about the issue of illegal immigrants, while saying he has apologized.

The original bill has a specific exclusion for illegal aliens. See Section 246 of the bill for the language. There is no need for enforcement in this bill, since enforcement is automatically provided criminally through federal criminal laws on fraud and civilly through the Federal False Claims Act. All he can point to to defend his opinion are some Republican amendments which failed. Killing Republican "catfish" amendments.

The story is that the charade is over. Now we see the men behind the curtain pulling the levers.

Republican surrogates have been spreading lies through the Limbaugh-Beck Disinformation Expressway for months. They have been happy to let Teabaggers and Birthers parrot this drivel all over the place. That way they can distance themselves from the lies, while letting the lies run wild.

Now we have an elected Republican liar on tape. Let's find out how all the rest of elected Republicans stand on this lie.

Call them OUT!

LOL! They would be the first to tell you it's not torture:)

Ahhhh...I see where you are coming from if I completely disagree with your conclusions.

But it won't be white Canadians or Europeans, right? They already have their own government run health care...and swear by it in fact. So you must be talking about those bad dark skinned people from south of the border, right? We can't have those people in our white anglo-saxon christian nation can we?

I love when racists out themselves...

Look, let's just get this over with. Let's just not have any borders to the U.S. because somehow we are NOT supposed to have any say in who comes in and who doesn't. Is that your point? We don't need any stinkin' immigration laws?

No borders? Whoever suggested that around here? Not me. There are people from all over the world living here illegally but all the anti-immigration whackos focus on are the dark skinned ones from south of the border.

Oleeb,

On passion I would agree with you. I agree that strong action must be taken.

However standing back and considering the reality that this is a publicly elected official, if his constituents demanded he resign, I would be perfectly happy to see that happen. But I don't feel it would be appropriate for congress to demand that. It usurps the votes of his electorate.

I feel censure is appropriate and perhaps he and other members of congress who behaved terribly last night should be censured and not allowed to attend future addresses to congress.

I think there must be a more measure way of dealing with this.

If my congressman had yelled out at Bush... I would not want congress to force him to resign but would completely support censuring and other actions being taken.

I'm confused as to what you think a mop does in my metaphor.

Joe Wilson IS the mop. He's the boob. He's paying a price even as we speak. I couldn't care less whether he resigns or not; and I don't think he SHOULD resign, because he represents his constituents, and probably told Obama what at least half of them think right now--decorum or none.

Democrats who would have booed or jeered George W. Bush as he tried to lie to their faces would have been amply rewarded. And I daresay: If they had balls that big, they'd have impeached the goddamned fucking liar like he should have been.

They would have been lionized for jeering the lies he spoke right to their faces and to the rest of the nation, even then. George W. Bush is NOT Obama, they were just both Presidents.

No, I didn't say the President lied, stupid. You did.

I said what I said. Re-read it and maybe consider some remedial comprehension classes, while you're at it.

I said some illegals are going to end up getting some care. Between ANY cracks you or anyone else can come up with to PREVENT them. The beauty of the free market is that if there's a demand, they'll find a way to achieve that demand--with bogus credentials, whatever.

OBAMA DID NOT SAY THIS. HE DID NOT SAY HE AGREED WITH ME. HE DID NOT LIE.

You, on the other hand, simply can't help yourself. Republican retard. You've omitted PLENTY in your little screeds here, but unlike some folks, I know how to read between the lines.

Back you up...I wouldn't go anywhere near your smelly ass.

I totally agree with you, Libertine. Every company should be required to use the E-Verify system. Companies who hire these people in order to not pay required wages ARE exploiting them and forcing them into slave labor. Conservatives are guilty in exploiting undocumented labor. That's why you don't hear very many Republicans taking a stand against illegal immigration. Their big business constituents want the cheap labor.

There he is, Ladies and Gentlemen:

The man with nothing but a keyboard, an opinion and a man of few words, too.

Thank Koresh.

This is all a waste of time. Republicans and Blue Dog politicians are spending their day debating alternate plans and strategizing about how to defeat progressive health care reform, and you guys are wasting your time worrying about one no-account little Congressman who had a mouth fart in public.

I'm appalled. If this is progressive politics in action, we deserve whatever we get from our opponents.

This "anti-ILLEGAL-immigration whacko" is against all shades of ILLEGAL immigration. Please note that I said ILLEGAL. Come here legally, fine. ILLEGALLY, not fine.

Relax. This little flame thread has nothing to do with what will eventually happen in D.C.

We most certainly deserve the best we can get. All of us. And that's what progressives have first and foremost, whether you 'object' or not.

Shit...what blog ISN'T a complete waste of time...to SOMEONE?

You are an ignorant fool if you think the price of lettuce will be $50 without exploited illegal immigrants picking it. You want to change our laws to allow more legal immigration? Fine. Let's do it.

Welllll...the contrarian in me can't resist.

Not all of us vote for Congresspersons because we 'expect leadership from them' or even good manners...

I would have loved a single Democrat in Congress to be able to stop the debate about Iraq with a comment like Joe Wilson's. I doubt it would have worked...look at what happened to Cynthia McKinney.

Stopping an agenda is sometimes the best way to negotiate. Being the Party of No is something I would love to be proud to say about the Democrats. But they never said 'No'; the voters had to do it for them. And even that wasn't enough to stop Bush. He had his way until the day he left town.

Democrats have no right to complain about Republicans trying to stop their agenda without endangering their own attempts to do so on the other side, depending on the issue. Not only do I wish Democrats had even tried to stop Bush or verbally challenged him, 5,000 dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan wish they had, too. And all those dead brown people.

What could I possibly say after that eloquent post. Good job. Your mother must be proud.

Would you please point out the part in my posts where I "damn and demonize the illegals"?

I think that is conjecture. I think that the Dems would have been the mops same as Wilson, and that is my conjecture. We're arguing theories, which is meaningless. Although I believe I have an experience point to make because this is what happened to Joe Wilson, I do not see that it would have been any different for Dems. The same argument would have been made, and probably by Joe Spector, too! "I've never seen this happen in my decades in Congress." The MSM would have eaten it up then as it is now. Afterall, the MSM was not calling the Bush Regime out, either.

Yeah, what Daddy-O said.

The point is that there is no means in the legislation to enforce it. Not even the clearly inadequate but nonetheless existing language in the Medicaid and Social security laws. And amendments to add such language were shot down by the sponsors of the bills now pending.

Unfortunately for South Carolina, this is one more instance of an elected official from there with too much time on his hands. Mark Sanford seems to think nothing he does should be labeled out of line. Wilson is just another one. Does that state really deserve those two?
As for the shouting of "You lied" or whatever he shouted: Congressmen and Senators are supposed to receive a copy of the speech beforehand. Did he read it? Was this truly spontaneous? Dubious at best. Unfortunate he doesn't represent his constituency well. Most South Carolinians are very hospitable, decorous, well-mannered people. All this outrage from Limbaugh and Beck is not helpful especially to the Southern psyche. And it's spreading to the rest of the nation.
Perhaps, this sad situation will be corrected in 2010.

Thanks Daddy-O. Every once in a while...

Disagree. I think he should be formally censured. Democrats need to make it clear that this kind of behavior is not OK. If they don't, it's just going to continue to escalate, and God knows where it will end up before it stops.

Agreed. Even if he was actually taking notes (and I don't for a minute believe that's what he was doing), there was no reason he should have needed to do so -- he had access to an advance copy of the speech. Not to mention that House rules prohibit the use of electronic devices on the floor. If he wants to take notes, he can use a pencil and a pad of paper.

No, texting while Obama was speaking was extremely rude, and just goes to show how right Van Jones was to call Republicans assholes.

At least some of the so-called "safeguards" that were put into the Medicare to keep illegals out of the system have been dropped because they did more harm than good.

They only do that during question time and as noted By others, the PM is a member of Parliament and only the head of government, not the head of state. They don't heckle the Queen when she gives the Speech From the Throne.

In the military, they say "salute the uniform, not the man." They're saying that these seemingly silly bits of ceremonial etiquette are part of the glue that hold institutions together from one generation to the next. And they're saying that conforming to these standards is a way of showing and reinforcing our common fealty and fidelity to things that are bigger than individuals and the passions of the moment.

Those are precisely the things the GOP has lost these last 15 years.

Yeah, but they want the discussion to be the way they want it to be, I've already been lectured by DanK over and over again.

Yup, last night was not the way to do it, but personally, I think the whole merger of Head of Government and Head of State in the Presidency is a serious weakness. Far better to have him come to Congress AS Head of Government, argue his case, and take his heckling. Better than that, should be a way he can come in and debate. He'd have to rally those pathetic Blue Dogs daily.

When he wants to be Head of State, let him put a special hat on. Maybe one with a twirly thing. And he should always be preceeded by people blowing kazoos.

As you van probably guess, I'm not much on the tradition and authority thing. But if you GOTTA have 'em, I'm happy to support twirly hats and kazoos.

LOL! "Love me, Daddy!" ;-)