Donal: Is Occupy Over?
Ramona's Piece de la Resistance (Including Pics of Obama, Romney, FDR)
dagblog To Give Away Logoed Hairshirt To Most Effective Lamenter Of Left's Ineptitude
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Donal: Is Occupy Over? Ramona's Piece de la Resistance (Including Pics of Obama, Romney, FDR) dagblog To Give Away Logoed Hairshirt To Most Effective Lamenter Of Left's Ineptitude |
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Last week, the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to spend nearly $100,000 to engrave "In God We Trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance at the Capitol Visitor Center. The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. immediately sued to stop the engraving.
Legal history suggests that the challenge is unlikely to succeed. In 1970, the 9th Circuit Court of California ruled in Aronow v. United States ruled that engraving the "In God We Trust" on currency is constitutional. That ruling has been upheld twice, most recently in a 2005 suit by atheist Michael Newdow, who had previously won a Supreme Court case challenging the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation may model its arguments on a 2005 case in which the ACLU successfully challenged the installment of framed copies of the Ten Commandments in front of two Kentucky courthouses. In that case, Justice David Souter (applying the Lemon test) ruled for a 5-4 majority that "the insistence of the religious message is hard to avoid in the absence of a context plausibly suggesting a message going beyond an excuse to promote the religious point of view...The reasonable observer could only think that the Counties meant to emphasize and celebrate the Commandments' religious message."
Statements by proponents of the resolution may support such an argument. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) had previously criticized the Visitor's Center for ignoring the role of religion in the nation's founding, stating:
"There are a few articles in the CVC that reflect elements of faith -- two Bibles, a picture of the congressional nondenominational faith space, and the oath of office -- but I believe they grossly understate the prominent role of faith and Judeo Christian values in the history of this great building."
And in 2008, Newt Gingrich had petitioned Congress to require the CVC to present "the centrality of our Creator in the founding of America."
On the other hand, the conservatives' ire was motivated in part by omissions in the CVC displays. For example, a representation of Article 7 of the Constitution omitted the words, "In the Year of Our Lord." In addition, a replica of the House of Representatives Speaker's rostrum did not include the "In God We Trust" slogan which is engraved above the actual Speaker's rostrum. It would seem difficult to challenge an engraving in the CVC without also challenging the original in the House chamber.

Though such an argument would be even less likely to succeed due to the precedents, I would prefer to see a challenge to the motto itself. In the 1970 precedent, Judge Bruce Thompson ruled:
"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency "In God We Trust" has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of a patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise...[The motto] is excluded from First Amendment significance because the motto has no theological or ritualistic impact."
With deference to the Judge Thompson, "it is quite obvious" seems a rather weak legal argument. The 1956 bill that established the slogan as an official motto cites as a primary rationale the fact that the slogan is inscribed on our currency. But according the Treasury Department, "In God We Trust" was first placed on U.S. coins in 1866 "because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War." Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase initiated the change after receiving a letter from a Rev. M. R. Watkinson of Pennsylvania with the following request:
One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.
You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.
This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.
One week after the date on the letter, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a slogan for U.S. coinage:
Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.
You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.
In the context of its origin, Judge Thompson's claim that the motto has "nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion" seems strained to the say the least. Were such a slogan to be placed on our coins by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner today, especially with such an explicit religious rationale, it would almost certainly be ruled unconstitutional following Souter's reasoning in the Ten Commandments case. And if the original establishment of the slogan on coinage was not constitutional, the logic declaring "In God We Trust" to be merely "patriotic or ceremonial" because of the history of the currency would appear to be circular. Judge Thompson's reasoning seems like a rationalization for continuing a tradition that should never have been started in the first place.
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Perceptive Dagblog readers know the difference between Obama, Romney and Bush:
Obama NYT today: .how President Obama’s thinking about what he once called “a war of necessity” began to radically change less than a year after he took up residency in the White House....The aide told Mr. Obama that he believed military leaders had agreed to the tight schedule to begin withdrawing those troops just 18 months later only because they thought they could persuade an inexperienced president to grant more time if they demanded it. “Well,” Mr. Obama responded that day, “I’m not going to give them more time.”...Mr. Obama concluded in his first year that the Bush-era dream of remaking Afghanistan was a fantasy...
Mitt Romney, Feb. 2012 : LAS VEGAS -- LAS VEGAS -- Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney on Wednesday night blasted President Obama and his administration for “putting in jeopardy” the nation’s military mission by signaling it hopes to end its combat mission in Afghanistan by the middle of 2013.
Appearing at a campaign rally here shortly after landing in Nevada, Romney said Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta’s statement Wednesday that U.S. forces would transition from a combat mission in Afghanistan next year “makes absolutely no sense.”....
George W. Bush, from May, 2003: BBC - "We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide... Free nations will press on to victory,"
Bush Afghanistan strategy : Gen. Douglas E. Lute, who had spent the last two years of the Bush administration trying to manage the many trade-offs necessary as the Iraq war consumed troop and intelligence resources needed in Afghanistan, arrived with a PowerPoint presentation. The first slide that General Lute threw onto the screen caught the eye of Thomas E. Donilon, later President Obama’s national security adviser. “It said we do not have a strategy in Afghanistan that you can articulate or achieve,” Mr. Donilon recalled three years later. “We had been at war for eight years, and no one could explain the strategy.”
Mitt Romney isn’t very far into the vice presidential selection process. But according to a dedicated band of conspiracy theorists, the pick is all but a lock: Sen. Marco Rubio.
That’s the current thinking among a worldwide collection of activists who are obsessed with the secretive Bilderberg Group, an alternating roster of global power players who loom as large — if not larger — in the online fever swamps of the fringe as the Trilateral Commission or the Council on Foreign Relations.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76518.html#ixzz1vN5egowz
Aristotle and Plato didn’t agree on much, but they were united in identifying wonder as the origin of their profession. As Aristotle said, “It is owing to their wonder that men . . . first began to philosophise.” This idea appeals to scientists, who frequently enlist wonder as a goad to inquiry. “I think everyone in every culture has felt a sense of awe and wonder looking at the sky,” wrote Carl Sagan in 1985, locating in this response the stirrings of a Copernican desire to know who and where we are.
Yet that is not the only direction in which wonder may take us. To Thomas Carlyle, wonder sits at the beginning not of science, but of religion. That is the central tension in forging an alliance of wonder with science: will it make us curious, or induce us to prostrate ourselves in pitiful ignorance? We had better get to grips with this question before we too hastily appropriate wonder to sell science. That is surely what is going on when pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope are (unconsciously?) cropped and coloured to recall the sublime iconography of Romantic landscape painting, or the Human Genome Project is wrapped in biblical rhetoric, or the Large Hadron Collider’s proton-smashing is depicted as “replaying the moment of creation”. The point is not that such things are deceitful or improper, but that if we want to take that path, we should first consider the complex evolution of the relation between science and wonder.
[....]
Pretending that science is performed by people who have undergone a Baconian purification of the emotions only deepens the danger that it will seem alien and odd to outsiders, something carried out by people who do not think as they do. Daston believes that we have inherited a “view of intelligence as neatly detached from emotional, moral and aesthetic impulses, and a related and coeval view of scientific objectivity that brand[s] such impulses as contaminants”. It is easy to understand the historical origins of this attitude: the need to distinguish science from credulous “enthusiasm”, to develop an authoritative voice, to strip away the pretensions of the mystical Renaissance magus who acquired knowledge through personal revelation. We no longer need these defences, however; worse, they become a defensive reflex that exposes scientists to the caricature of the emotionally constipated boffin, hiding within thickets of jargon.
... We’re trying to harness photosynthesis. A key part of photosynthesis is what happens when the sun goes down. Cells convert CO2 into sugar and fat molecules. And they store the fat to burn as energy to get them through the night ... We’re trying to coax our synthetic cells to ... store far more fat than they actually were designed to do, so that we can harness it all as an energy source and use it to create gasoline, diesel fuel, and jet fuel straight from carbon dioxide and sunlight. This would shift the carbon equation so we’re recycling CO2 instead of taking new carbon out of the ground and creating still more CO2. But it has to be done on a massive scale to have any real impact on the amount of CO2 we’re putting into the atmosphere, let alone recovering from the atmosphere.
... We envision facilities the size of San Francisco. And 10 or 15 of those in this country. We need sunlight, seawater, and non-agricultural land, but you need a lot of photons to drive this. You need a lot of surface area of sunlight to do that. It’s a great use for Arizona. Lots of sunlight there.
... If we can’t get some key scientific breakthroughs within the next couple of years, it probably won’t happen in 10 years. So it’s something that’s really dependent on fundamental science. But we’re already able to do things that were once seen as impossible.
... I think the new anti-intellectualism that’s showing up in politics today is a symptom of our not discussing these issues enough. We don’t discuss how our society is now 100 percent dependent on science for its future. We need new scientific breakthroughs—sometimes to overcome the scientific breakthroughs of the past. A hundred years ago oil sounded like a great discovery. You could burn it and run engines off it. I don’t think anybody anticipated that it would actually change the atmosphere of our planet. Because of that we have to come up with new approaches. We just passed the 7 billion population mark. In 12 years, we’re going to reach 8 billion. If we let things run their natural course, we’ll have massive pandemics, people starving. Without science I don’t see much hope for humanity.
G, you seem to be looking for a rational argument where religion is involved which is a pretty tall order. If we really trusted in God, why do we need money? Or bombs? Or missile defense systems. We should just have faith that God will provide for us. It is embarassing to see Congress play along with this nonsense.
That said, "In God We Trust" is just stupid sloganeering that no one even pays attention to. You can place trust in something that is not real, so the slogan doesn't imply that non-believers are less than full Americans. "One Nation Under God" is more offensive to me since it's a proclamation of fact rather than a belief and seems to infer that if you are not under God, then you are not part of this nation.
Actually, "In God We Trust" bothers me more. It's is a declaration of faith which many Americans do not share.
But the First Amendment is not about protecting people from being offended in any case. It states simply: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Even if Congress engraved a religious message on a rock and buried it under ground where no one could see it, it would be unconstitutional. Thompson did not rule that the slogan is inoffensive. He ruled that it is not religious, since it lacks "theological or ritualistic impact." But that's a vague and subjective standard. To see the subjectivity, imagine the impact on an immigrant or child who reads the slogan for the first time. They may not find it offensive, but it's hard to imagine that they would not see it as a religious. Indeed, the sponsors of the CVC bill evidently perceive theological impact as well, as demonstrateded by their comments and determination. "In God We Trust" is, after all, a declaration of faith in God--no matter how familiar and meaningless it may have seemed to Judge Thompson.
What I'm dying to know is: WWJtLD?
Who is J the L?
Maybe it's Jet Li?
Joseph the Latriner, of course!
Of course.
Ha. I googled WWJtLD and found someone who used it mean "Jesus the Lawyer," so I assumed it to be some Christian cultural reference that I wasn't familiar with.
Jesus the Lawyer is much more contextually appropriate than Joseph, who did not concern himself with politics and law--until it was too late.
I'm trying to imagine the kind of congregation the First Church of Jesus Christ, Lawyer would draw.
“In God we trust.” Which “God”? You're free to choose.
The Star Spangled Banner Lyrics
By Francis Scott Key 1814
Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light…………..
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
“In God we trust.” Which “God”? Supreme Court Justice William Brennan, wrote that the slogan has “lost any true religious significance.”
Your reference to Justice Steven Souter reminds me of a story I heard again this past week. Justice (David) Souter is in a store in New Hampshire, and a couple recognizes his face and says "You're on the Supreme Court!" He agrees and they start talking to him and then state their belief that he is Justice (Steven) Breyer. They then ask "Justice Breyer" about his experience on the Court. He tells them it has been fantastic, but the best part is working with his brilliant colleague, Justice Souter.
"In God We Trust" was religious in 1866, but I think it presently holds more weight as a piece of history. If our nation were mostly atheist in its earlier histories, I would be fine (as an American) with federal buildings having inscriptions like "Atheism rules" or "Think for yourself". I think it's enough not being allowed to pray or read from religious books in federal buildings.
Also, the inscription being made isn't really a law. If Congress made an inscription on a rock that said "In God We Trust" and buried it, they wouldn't be making any ordinance that says that everyone under the jurisdiction of America must believe in God, which is what the concept of separation of church and state is (or at least seemed to originally be).
The issue is not a question of historical population. The framers included the "make no law respecting an establishment of religion" in order to protect believers in minority religions from tyranny by the majority religion, as happened to Puritans in England. And the proper comparison to a historically atheist state would not be "Think for yourself" but rather "There is no God." I think such a motto would seriously disturb many people and, more to the point, it would be unconstitutional.
Congress did pass a law in this case. The law requires that the Capitol Visitor Center display "In God We Trust." The motivation for the law, as stated by its supporters, was to emphasize the importance of Judeo-Christian (i.e. Protestant) faith to the Federal Government. This seems like the law concerns an establishment of religion to me, whether the engraving be buried underground or prominently displayed for tourists, but obviously, many people have come to a different conclusion.
It's clear you need to get a job. I you don't like "In God We Trust" don't look at it. Please allow me too look at it. I choose not to look at idiots. So if we cross paths some day please forgive me for not maiking eye contact.
Sincerely, Kelly J. Smith
Feel free to look at it - on your own dime. It's funny that you're chiding Genghis to get a job (which he most definitely has - in fact, he has several), but yet you want the government to spend $100k so that you can look at it, when you can do it for much, much cheaper with your own money instead of with mine, Genghis', and others.