dagblog - Comments for ""Fight Your Way Out""

I think you nailed it!

Verified Atheist — Thu, 05 May 2011 11:18:05 +0000

In reply to Or maybe the U.S. didn't know

I think you nailed it!

Or maybe the U.S. didn't know

acanuck — Thu, 05 May 2011 03:37:50 +0000

Or maybe the U.S. didn't know Osama was there but figured it was somebody important, and bin Laden somehow got wind of the planned raid and warned the ISI, hoping they would feed the U.S. false information long enough for him to escape. But the ISI concluded the U.S. was just testing them, so they told the U.S., "Hey, we finally located bin Laden!" The U.S. figured the ISI was lying, but played along so the Pakistanis wouldn't realize they were onto them. So the raid went down, and the SEALS were all, "Holy crap, we got bin Laden!" And bin Laden was all, "Holy crap, they got me!" And the ISI was all, "Our bad!" I think that might be remotely possible.

I know very little about

Verified Atheist — Wed, 04 May 2011 20:14:17 +0000

In reply to Congratulations, join the

I know very little about Pakistan, but what I've gathered is that it doesn't necessarily make sense to think of them as an organized whole. There are factions in the government at odds with other factions. It's possible that one faction gave us this Intel, and we coordinated in a limited manner with that faction in order to get our helicopters safely to target. It's also possible that we didn't get any Intel from them nor give them any, and that our stealthy helicopters are just that stealthy. I don't think it's idiotic to wonder just how stealthy helicopters can be, though.

Congratulations, join the

NCD — Wed, 04 May 2011 20:09:26 +0000

In reply to I think you are pretty far

Congratulations, join the club KGB999, the Dagblog Pak Gave Us Bin Laden on a Silver Platter Club!

I don't suppose that if the Pak's were going to 'hand him over' that you can tell me why we didn't just drive up in a truck to pick him up, with a big red bow tied around him? Why the drama, the 79 SEALS, and the choppers at night? The dumb level of many here seems to know no bounds.

Thank goodness the Obama administration and our military are not as naive at trusting the lying bastards in PAK with the lives of our servicemen, as you apparently would do. I would remind you the distance cross border is only 70 miles or so, a 15-20 minute ride, and there are choppers in the air frequently in a military district.

It is considerably less

Verified Atheist — Wed, 04 May 2011 20:01:31 +0000

In reply to I think you are pretty far

It is considerably less likely Pakistan didn't know about our raid (and support it to some degree) than it is they didn't know about Bin Laden's presence.

I think it's also worth considering the joint probabilities. I.e., what are the odds that they knew about bin Laden's presence, but didn't know about our raid? What are the odds they knew about neither? (The latter seems more likely to me than the former.) What are the odds that they knew about both? What are the odds they knew about the raid and didn't already know about is presence? (I would find that unlikely, as well.)

I'd argue that if they did already know about his presence, then they probably told us and we returned the favor in order to keep them from being alarmed by the presence of our helicopters. If they didn't already know about his presence, then it seems reasonable that we could also sneak some helicopters past them. Of course, I know nothing about military operations, so [insert disclaimer here].

I think you are pretty far

kgb999 — Wed, 04 May 2011 19:54:12 +0000

In reply to Nonsense. I don't think the

I think you are pretty far off-base. It is considerably less likely Pakistan didn't know about our raid (and support it to some degree) than it is they didn't know about Bin Laden's presence.

You really think a squad of helicopters can fly undetected into a city with at least one military base (and known air-defenses), drop JSOC troops a mile from the Pakistani military barracks for a a 40 minute firefight (that includes the destruction of a helicopter), collect the bodies and evidence and then leave .... all undetected?

If this were really the case, those Pakistanis must not only be incompetent - they must also be deaf and blind.

Nonsense. I don't think the

NCD — Wed, 04 May 2011 19:51:00 +0000

In reply to I think the Paki's were well

Nonsense. I don't think the Pk's were informed at all, frankly such a scenario doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You have got to be kidding if you believe after 10 years in Afghanistan the US military and the Obama administration 'trust' either Afghans or Paki's with the lives and the mission of US special forces operating cross border. It's nuts. The US knows some Paki would immediately get the word to the target, who would scoot and avoid capture.

If the Paki's wanted to get rid of Bin Laden for their own or US reasons and to get more $$$ aid, they could have done him in themselves without all the embarrassment of a US violation of their sovereignty. Then burned his body in the compound trash.The Paki's had been claiming he was dead or not in Pak anyway, so the scenario that occurred shows they are either liars or incompetent for chrissakes.

If the Paks did him in on their own and in secret (telling the CIA only) Congressional leaders would be informed in secret session, then be giving them more aid, instead of calling for an end to aid. The guy was there for years for crying out loud, the Paks had no intention of doing anything. The Pak's were as sure as Bin Laden was that he was beyond the reach of the US - which was true under Bush - not true under Obama.

Reality check - It was hard enough to get one CIA guy released after he killed 2 robbers in Pak, the Pakis would have loved to capture or detain two whole helicopters full of SEALS on a mission inside their country. It would give them the chance to extort and blackmail which is their usual mode of operation. Bargain for more billions or reduce Obama demands for Pak help with other terrorist leaders like Mullah Omar or the Haqquani Taliban.

Picture 79 US troops blindfolded in Pak custody being paraded by jubilant Pak police in Pakistan, as the ISI negotiates for more US money and concessions from the US. Picture Robert Gates testifying before Congress saying 'Well we thought it was a good idea to just tell the ISI we were going to violate their sovereignty to get Bin Laden, a man they had put up in a million dollar compound in a military district, but we were really surprised he wasn't there when the SEALS landed".

Trump/Busey 2012

rmrd0000 — Wed, 04 May 2011 18:05:16 +0000

In reply to Fortunately, he didn't have

Trump/Busey 2012

Over a cup of herbal tea.

Doctor Cleveland — Wed, 04 May 2011 15:52:19 +0000

In reply to No, no, Genghis is right.

Over a cup of herbal tea.

I may be Obama's strongest

Flavius — Wed, 04 May 2011 15:19:00 +0000

In reply to "Fight Your Way Out"

I may be Obama's strongest supporter here but even I don't believe a word of that. Reminds me of Mary McCarthy's comment about Lillian Helmann : "Every word's a lie including if, and and but"