dagblog - Comments for ""Geronimo"?... A Freudian slip?"

You mean they were scooped by

cmaukonen — Mon, 09 May 2011 14:31:54 +0000

You mean they were scooped by Obama ? Wowozers.

Looking at it now with 20/20

David Seaton — Mon, 09 May 2011 14:10:58 +0000

In reply to "Geronimo"?... A Freudian slip?

Looking at it now with 20/20 hindsight, I think it would have been brilliant to have killed or captured bin Laden and not have announced it. Waited around for a few day and let the Taliban or Al Qaeda announce it. Then to quiet all the rumors, release very detailed information in a very low key, quiet, no-drama Obama way... this would have been much more effective and damaging to Al Qaeda than the circus we have just lived through.

Thatwouldbenice

David Seaton — Mon, 09 May 2011 14:05:54 +0000

In reply to Perhaps, then, we must focus

That

would

nice

Perhaps, then, we must focus

Bruce Levine — Mon, 09 May 2011 14:01:02 +0000

In reply to I have to believe that

Perhaps, then, we must focus on finding something in between CIA overthrows and wishing them well.

I have to believe that

David Seaton — Mon, 09 May 2011 13:49:26 +0000

In reply to I agree with you that it is

I have to believe that supporting democracy is not necessarily incompatible with avoiding meddling where we don't belong.

That is part of "wishing" them well, but funding it and supporting movements with CIA help is not "wishing".

I agree with you that it is

Bruce Levine — Mon, 09 May 2011 13:15:22 +0000

In reply to In the end what the Egyptian

I agree with you that it is ultimately their business, all things equal--but I'm not sure that it is wrong to support people who support democracy anywhere in the world, and I have to believe that supporting democracy is not necessarily incompatible with avoiding meddling where we don't belong.

In the end what the Egyptian

David Seaton — Mon, 09 May 2011 12:33:36 +0000

In reply to Well David is correct about

In the end what the Egyptian do with their country is their business.... we should wish them well and leave it at that.

Well David is correct about

Bruce Levine — Mon, 09 May 2011 12:28:10 +0000

In reply to It still really riles me to

Well David is correct about one thing, and that is that the Muslim Brotherhood is the only organized force in Egypt--other than the military--right now with the ability to take control of the government. The democrats who accomplished Mubarek's overthrow do not have the ability to challenge MB. But of course David would be wrong to the extent that he believes that that is a good thing and that the Egyptian people, given the opportunity to express themselves freely and to establish democratic institutions, will forever be satisfied living under the yoke of the real and purposeful oppression that the Brotherhood will bring.

And the sad thing is that we on the left--a term used loosely for convenience here--have been neutered to the point where we avoid consensus on what can be done about it. We have forfeited a role in international affairs unless it comes to bashing the U.S., and sometimes Israel when the headlines indicate it.

What a shame; we have come to convince ourselves that totalitarianism can only come in one color. We have become enablers for the worst of humanity because, often rightly so, we are appalled at some of the things that have been done in our name. What a cop-out I say--it's so easy to blame ourselves for all that is evil in the world. And our heads are in the sand as deeply as GWB and his band of merry, self-righteous and clueless pranksters.

What is happening in Egypt is

David Seaton — Mon, 09 May 2011 06:36:03 +0000

In reply to It still really riles me to

What is happening in Egypt is a result of all the ingredients coming together... just like in the French Revolution. You many remember that the " enlightenment" began long before the Revolution. You may recall that both Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Voltaire died old men in 1788... one year before the Revolution began. An important factor in causing the sans-culotte to revolt was a crop failure in Europe that sent the price of bread skyrocketing. "Let them eat cake", was Ayn Rand avant le lettre.

So in Egypt what could have been another fizzling, student and intellectual-yuppy, blog and Facebook exhibition got mass muscle again because of the price of bread's recent dramatic rise, combined with the "let them eat cake", attitude of the Friedman-Hayek-Mubarak neo-elites. At this moment the most coherent force politically is the Muslim Brotherhood, and polls show that some 80% of Egyptians are in favor of stoning adulteresses to death. Therefore, I would hesitate in prematurely declaring this the "birth pains of democracy" in Condoleeza Rice fashion. It is really risky to try and shoehorn the life of a society we don't understand into our propaganda narrative.

Here the deal

quinn esq — Mon, 09 May 2011 06:15:50 +0000

In reply to With all this talk of Osama

Here the deal baby. http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir05042011.html