dagblog - Comments for "Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture"

Interesting comments so far.

cmaukonen — Fri, 20 May 2011 15:16:54 +0000

In reply to Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture

Interesting comments so far. From what I gather though, not only is it acceptable to hit you kids - it may even be acceptable to beat the living crap out of them on occasion.

So much for progressive-ism.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Waterboarding is sometimes

Richard Day — Thu, 19 May 2011 20:45:33 +0000

In reply to Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture

Waterboarding is sometimes the best answer.

That was the course of last resort, for my son anyway.

Well i can do anything I want to do!

Yeah, at six you can do anything you want to do!

And it was time to get aboard and get him on board, if you know what I mean.

Moreover, if someone is

cmaukonen — Thu, 19 May 2011 13:55:27 +0000

In reply to One perspective on this is

Moreover, if someone is operating for the most part in this mode, then they generally won't be able to understand people who are guided by higher levels of morality. They will see success from interrogation techniques coming from finding either the right punishment or right reward to motivate the person. If someone believes that the one being interrogated is "evil" - like a terrorist - then the only motivation that would work would be the fear of severe punishment.

Of course we are seeing that this works real well.....NOT.

One perspective on this is

Elusive Trope — Thu, 19 May 2011 13:46:44 +0000

In reply to Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture

One perspective on this is from looking at from Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)

1. Obedience and punishment orientation

(How can I avoid punishment?)

2. Self-interest orientation

(What's in it for me?)

(Paying for a benefit)

Level 2 (Conventional)

3. Interpersonal accord and conformity

(Social norms)

(The good boy/good girl attitude)

4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation

(Law and order morality)

Level 3 (Post-Conventional)

5. Social contract orientation

6. Universal ethical principles

(Principled conscience)

Young children cannot be expected to operate beyond the pre-conventional since they don't have access to the abstract thinking necessary for the higher levels. Using punishment or rewards is the easiest path of control and "good behavior" since it is what the children will easily understand. Of course, the easiest of all is the threat of violence which can administered anywhere at anytime. And rarely do the adults take the time to place in a higher level morality context. it's just you did bad...whack. It is too much effort to explain why it's bad even if the kid doesn't quite get it.

I think part of the problem is that many adults never advance beyond the pre-conventional stage whether it is the Wall Street broker who takes down the economy in the quest for profits or the religious fanatic that needs the fear of a God to make them do the right thing.

But for many the turning to violence to shape their kids behavior and deal with behavior that is unacceptable comes from either they are too lazy to think of a punishment/reward system that isn't abusive, or they are basically incapable of being that creative.

Moreover, if someone is operating for the most part in this mode, then they generally won't be able to understand people who are guided by higher levels of morality. They will see success from interrogation techniques coming from finding either the right punishment or right reward to motivate the person. If someone believes that the one being interrogated is "evil" - like a terrorist - then the only motivation that would work would be the fear of severe punishment.

I have a few comments. First,

The Decider — Thu, 19 May 2011 13:32:00 +0000

In reply to Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture

I have a few comments. First, spanking a child who is doing something dangerous and is not yet old enough to properly reason with is not the same thing as beating and abuse. Let's please try to distinguish these.

Second, this essay is replete with hasty generalization. A couple of Old Testament proverbs does not mean that spanking is a central tenant [tenet] in Christian religion. And don't throw James Dobson at me because he is not a Christian. His messages have little to do with love, or forgiveness, or humility. Those were the three fundamental teachings of Christ--along with aiding those in need. I don't remember Him saying a word about spanking. In fact, the only angry words from Christ were directed at the religious leaders of His day.

{shakes head} Ho...boy.....

cmaukonen — Thu, 19 May 2011 13:02:46 +0000

In reply to What is it about spanking and

{shakes head} Ho...boy.....

What is it about spanking and

EmmaZahn — Thu, 19 May 2011 04:27:58 +0000

In reply to My dad, when he was the chair

What is it about spanking and the religious right?

I think it was something they read by a reputedly wise Jewish leader:

"He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24)
"Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

The problem with holy books is even non-literal-minded people tend to take things literally when their eternal soul is at stake.

This is just a guess on my

cmaukonen — Thu, 19 May 2011 03:25:00 +0000

In reply to My dad, when he was the chair

This is just a guess on my part but.....I think it's the abusive treatment and authoritarian family style that attracts them to the fundamentalist religions. And abusive authoritative God.

My dad, when he was the chair

Michael Wolraich — Thu, 19 May 2011 03:17:18 +0000

In reply to Ritual Abuse or Why some people like torture

My dad, when he was the chair of the Academy of Pediatrics, was invited by anti-spanking-activist Rob Reiner to participate in a televised debate with pro-spanking-(anti-wanking)-activist Rev. Jerry Falwell. It fell though though.

Incidentally, James Dobson rose to prominence among the religious right because of the success of his book, Dare to Discipline.

What is it about spanking and the religious right?