dagblog - Comments for "Cornel West's tragic meltdown"

Ta-Nehisi Coates chiming in

artappraiser — Tue, 24 May 2011 02:32:18 +0000

In reply to Cornel West's tragic meltdown

Ta-Nehisi Coates chiming in at his Atlantic blog:

Gathering the Tribe, May 17, 2011

Highly recommend the long discussion thread.

Moreover, given that Obama is

Peter Schwartz — Fri, 20 May 2011 11:57:06 +0000

In reply to I did check out the video.

Moreover, given that Obama is a politician--the president of country, many of whose citizens and representatives adamantly oppose him and try to undermine him--and Cornel West is a professor and the autocratic ruler of his classroom and the books he writes and speeches he gives...

...which one has an inherently harder job living up to his principles?

I did check out the video.

Flavius — Fri, 20 May 2011 00:45:00 +0000

In reply to I admire it when people live

I did check out the video. Thanks

West is a good man who lives up to his principles

Obama is a good enough man who lives up to his principles as much as he can.

I'm sorry; I'm doing far too

we are stardust — Thu, 19 May 2011 18:51:48 +0000

In reply to Communication in MLK's day

I'm sorry; I'm doing far too many things today to do any of them well. This was in her piece at The Nation; she constantly conflates West with Smiley (I am not a fan) like many others do.

"Instead, West seems determined to keep black politics tethered to a patronage model of politics. He tells Hedges:

“Our last hope is to generate a democratic awakening among our fellow citizens. This means raising our voices, very loud and strong, bearing witness, individually and collectively. Tavis [Smiley] and I have talked about ways of civil disobedience, beginning with ways for both of us to get arrested…”

God help us if Cornel West and Tavis Smiley getting arrested is our last chance at a democratic awakening."

Both may be a bit full of themselves, IMO. At least for now. But West sees how crucial it is for help to come to those without jobs and food, while we are advised to accept austerity, IMO, while corporate and bank profits are sky-rocketing.

Communication in MLK's day

AmericanDreamer — Thu, 19 May 2011 18:07:44 +0000

In reply to Yeah, the 'Obama dissed me

Communication in MLK's day wasn't like it is now; I have no idea if MLK may have thrown a hissy fit now and again.

That's for sure. He sure did have his hissy fits in private. Or/when he was in public, reporters overhearing him might have operated with an internalized norm that if the comment wasn't meant for the record they wouldn't report it (some did back then and some do even now; the latter are known as "former reporters".) Some reporters also, not surprisingly, liked him, and, in violation of the usual norms of journalistic impartiality, acted sympathetically to the cause. The role the media played in the progress that was made on civil rights in the '50s and '60s is a story that has been told.

I've never been a big West fan. To me, he writes high generalities that I often find trite, and sometimes not terribly thoughtful or penetrating, as he does not seem to write with an awareness that not all good things can always go together (the late Isaiah Berlin's lifelong theme) but sometimes conflict with one another and require hard choices. I think there are others who do the high rhetoric writing more effectively, for me at least. Neither have I disliked him--it's more that I find the effusive portrayal of him by his fans difficult to understand.

When you wrote, "But when she [Harris-Perry] mocked him for being willing to get arrested in demonstrations with people fighting back,.." by "fighting back" do you mean nonviolent, civil disobedience-type demonstrations? If so, I agree with you and presumably West that a willingness to participate in that way can be admirable. It may not be the best tactic in a given situation, might even be counter-productive. But a willingness to do that peacefully can be admirable, I think, and if Harris-Perry thinks it cannot be then I'd have some questions for her about her version of how and why we have civil rights in this country if I could ask her.

Yeah, the 'Obama dissed me

we are stardust — Thu, 19 May 2011 17:43:15 +0000

In reply to I can't defend the personal

Yeah, the 'Obama dissed me with no inaugural tickets' was lame. And given that in his religion, apologizing is a blessing, maybe he'll say sorry about some of that; I don't know. But I do know that he is peeved, as others are, that Obama has ignored the poor and poor blacks even more. It may still be true that the President hasn't met with the Black Caucus yet, which all other Presidents have done; if that's changed, it's a good thing. Unemployment among blacks is triple the national average, I think.

But West does lots of panels and outreach into communities and colleges, much like this one, though it's a video teach-in, not in person.

I like Harris-Perry; she gives me lots to consider when she calls out certain kinds of racism, but she also has a carreer now appearing on MSNBC shows, and just left Princeton (some folks think that might be partially responsible for this dust-up with West). But when she mocked him for being willing to get arrested in demonstrations with people fighting back, it really irked the socks offa me. West runs with a decidedly different crowd and class of people than she does.

This is my favorite West interview, on Craig Ferguson's show.

Communication in MLK's day wasn't like it is now; I have no idea if MLK may have thrown a hissy fit now and again. He sure wasn't a fan of JFK there for a time until Bobby took the civil rights issue as his.

I admire it when people live

A Guy Called LULU — Thu, 19 May 2011 17:03:47 +0000

In reply to Cornell West is principled.

I admire it when people live up to principles which I admire. When a person's pragmatism has them grossly violating principles [and laws] which I admire and which they claimed to hold, then my admiration takes a hard turn. Pragmatism is not always admirable and when it is not admirable it is often not successfully pragmatic.

http://warincontext.org/2011/05/19/assassination-nation-are-there-any-li...

The video linked at the bottom of the essay is particularly good, IMO.

Cornell West is principled.

Flavius — Thu, 19 May 2011 16:43:28 +0000

In reply to Cornel West's tragic meltdown

Cornell West is principled. Obama is pragmatic.Both admirable ..

West tries to live in a manner that's consistent with what he teaches as a moral philosopher..

Barak Obama tries to be an effective president. Which requires being willing to be inconsistentand ,if you will, unprincipled, that is willing to act in conflict with his personal principles. For example,make peace with the Taliban even while he abhors the cruel regime they will reinstall

"No public figure is going to

A Guy Called LULU — Thu, 19 May 2011 16:37:49 +0000

In reply to I can't defend the personal

"No public figure is going to be allowed to disavow her or his unfortunate public words by people intent on trying to make a pariah out of them. That's just the reality."

West is undermined by viewing him next to Melissa Harris-Perry. West looks like he might work carrying a sandwich board advertising sloppy joe's at the corner of Heartache and Vine. Harris-Perry looks like a very pretty woman with brains, education, talent, and appealing personality. It makes a difference whether it should or not. That is just the reality. I believe it is easier for white people to already be critical of West before he opens his mouth and before it is heard what he has to say when that is the pairing.
Regarding getting personal, I recall that through G. Bush's war mongering and other outrageous crimes against humanity, as well as his harmful domestic policies, a friend and I would often talk about it and would try to understand why his supporters accepted it all. At some point he would always say,"What is it going to take to get these people to admit that what is going on is wrong and to get off this guy? Is there any line that he might cross that his supporters will not cheer?"
I do not expect my opinions to make national news or to spark inside-the-beltway debate. I am just another jerk with an opinion who is trying to hold on to his metaphorical equivalent of the same, but, Obama has crossed a lot of lines that, had I expected him to cross them, would have made me work hard for a different candidate. I am not offended that West describes Obama in derogatory terms any more than I would have expected most readers here to be offended when I called Bush various derogatory names.

The author of the

AmericanDreamer — Thu, 19 May 2011 16:02:26 +0000

In reply to Counterpoint here; I'm a fan

The author of the counterpoint piece you link to says this on the top of page 2:

Harris-Perry condemns West for getting personal but West doesn't get personal because he has a beef with President Obama. He becomes personal because he is genuinely distressed by the lack of access that he has to power. And, Harris-Perry should explain why citizens especially someone like West should have to accept the moneyed elites--those who can fill the campaign coffers for elections--are the first people the president dials.

I don't know if that is true or not. If it is, it would just make West look petty, or more petty, so is not helpful to West's defense, as the author means to be. West becomes personal "because he is genuinely distressed by the lack of access that he has to power"? Well, join the crowd, Cornel!