And how is this different

cmaukonen — Mon, 23 May 2011 15:28:25 +0000

In reply to It always seemed to me in my

And how is this different that the Islamic or Christian fundamentalist justifying their anti-social behavior by selective quotes from the Quran or Bible ? Or the preaching of some Mullah or Fundamentalist preacher.

It always seemed to me in my

Anonymous — Mon, 23 May 2011 15:18:11 +0000

In reply to True Believers

It always seemed to me in my many thousands of conversations with conservative activists and the average loyal fox viewer that their randian beliefs were all to rationalize away their extreme selfishness and their view of themselves as individuals who acquired and achieved all of their successes by their drive alone.

Besides spouting and truly believing virtually every item of conservative/libertarian propaganda that has been created, focused grouped, and reworked by all the various conserv think tanks in the last 40 years, I personally have never been able to get any conservative to say that public schools or colleges helped them along the way, even when it was provable that they genrously partook of government subsidised loans, or attended land grant colleges and state universities, that a system of roads was key to business and their own lives, that having access at a moments notice to clean and unimaginably cheap water has enriched their lives. In fact most responses cast those things in a bad light, as if they could have done more without them. For them all the problems and supposed loss of liberties outweigh any benefits whatsoever. A typical response is that the free market would have taken care of it eventually, along the lines of Paul Jr. and Sr. 's remarks about jim crow.

They can't seem to comprehend the concept of generational investment, theft, or neglect for that matter. When I talk to most conservatives you would think that their generation won world war two, built eisenhowers insterstate highway system, and invented and commercialized the integrated circuit within the span of a few years.

They absolutely abhor any suggestion that they "stand on the shoulders of giants," or are part of and beneficiaries of thousands of years of collective action, aka society. They take it as a slight against them if you perhaps mention that frieight rail, thus their food, still travels on tracks and routes dug, blasted, and hammered into the ground by chinese immigrants at the turn of the century, or the roads they travel, or water they drink, or that all their foods are inspected is made possible by government. The fact that because we aren't all rioting in the streets over food is a major plus to business is beyond their comprehension. Or that all those .1%-ers that they would seemingly die for before taxing, actually use more of those government resources than the rest of us to make their money.

They can't understand the Waltons get a serious boon by having roads to ship their cheap products from shipyards to midwest wal marts to sell to us. They don't see that Kochs benefit greatly by having workers who won't get sick and die from drinking the water out of the tap, or by picking up an untested product off the shelf. So they can't imagine how healthier citizens would contribute more to the economy.

They immediately will say that the private sector would do it better, but never seem to answer how the introduction of profit motive will benefit people or make large engineering projects cheaper or better. I have actually had many conservatives claim, with a straight face, that they don't use public roads, schools, water, utilities, or benefit from government in any way. It is a badge of pride for them and they really believe it. When you point out the most basic benefits like law and order they will immediately point to their prowess to take care of themselves, and police themselves and their communities, it usually devolves into an NRA pamphlet.

I guess it is because we have such short memories of what life was really like before government programs like disease eradication, or screw fly solution insect control actually came about. I have had conservatives from TN say the TVA has done nothing for them, or Memphis residents that yellow fever outbreaks at the turn of the century weren't so bad, and that since the problem is gone now, couldn't possibly return if the government stopped doing these things.

To me it always seemed that the logic of these randian free marketeers was about as sound as the anti-vax crowd. I try to make the point that perhaps whenever they hear large corporations bellyaching about free markets, they shoud probably look at what competition they are trying to squash to further entrench their profits and interests.

So yes, the dissonance between seeing oneself as a rugged frontier individualist that earned everything they got, own bootstraps kind of person, and plainly seeing the benefits that accure to current generations from advances in science, math, medicine, and public works is great.

The pretzel knots that conservatives tie themselves into while flogging Jesus and greed is good selfishness at the same time is huge, and gives us the results we have today. One political party that is completely controlled by its idealouges, and sometimes with great amounts of shady money manages to fool the public into believing they are "compassionate conservatives" which by extreme overreach quickly becomes apparent were lies, and another party that is desperate to keep up money wise, with a socially liberal corporatist wing selling out the corporate wary wing every chance they get in the name of some bipartisan fetish, and a media that is controlled by 5-6 corporations, staffed by celebrity millionaires who have convinced themselves that they know the struggles and trials of the average american, and exactly what we want.

It's the only explanation that shows how shredding what is left of the safety net, and greatly reducing social securty and medicare, while simultaneously continuing to lower millionaire's taxes, when its at a 100 year low vs GDP, can be called "serious" and "shared sacrifice" everyday in every media outlet, and on every tv with a smile.

Their is no shortage of dissonance in America, or in mine and your daily lives. I think that dissonance can go a long way in explaining many things, and examining my own dissonance reduction rationalizations has helped me to avoid making stupid or ill informed decisions, and it is also helpful in examining one's own biases and tryng to change out of reflexive thinking.

Oh Brother

cmaukonen — Mon, 23 May 2011 01:09:32 +0000

In reply to "Camping, whose deep sonorous

Oh Brother ..............................

"Camping, whose deep sonorous

A Guy Called LULU — Mon, 23 May 2011 00:42:36 +0000

In reply to True Believers

"Camping, whose deep sonorous voice is frequently heard on his radio network expounding the Bible, could not be reached for comment on Saturday.
The shades were drawn and no one answered the door at his house in Alameda, California".

Duh, you non-believers will go to crazy lengths to avoid the obvious truth. There were just far fewer "good" people on earth Friday than all the no-values non-believing liberals could have imagined. You, your friends and family and neighbors are still here but the few good people are now gone. Nobody has even missed them. The good Mr. Camping was the first to go. He wasn't there to answer the door. Did I say, Duh?
Don't be surprised, though, if the government plants a doddering old idiot in his place to make believe the rapture didn't happen because if the sheep ever found out the truth the world, as they know it, would come to its end. Now we really are all in this handbasket together.

dagblog - Comments for "True Believers"

And how is this different

It always seemed to me in my

Oh Brother

"Camping, whose deep sonorous