dagblog - Comments for "Lions, Tigers and Shared Sacrifice - Oh No!"

But even if this situation is

AmericanDreamer — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 02:22:25 +0000

In reply to I could pound out a list of

But even if this situation is eased in the next big election the corporate oligarchists will always be with us and they must be dealt with.

Is this how the corporate oligarchists are being "dealt with"? And the "shared sacrifices" they are offering up would be...what, exactly? Oh, that's right, those would be other peoples' sacrifices. Again. Notwithstanding what has been going on in this country for 30 years now. I am pretty sure you agree with me on that part, anyway.

I wish I could believe that, having brought the country to the brink, the radical GOP would accept what they will likely get out of this deal, relent, and be willing to operate in good faith going forward, where "compromise" re-enters their lexicon.

Unfortunately, I find myself unable to really believe that. Are you able to believe that is what will happen? Or do you not see any alternatives?

Where does this kind of policy movement stop? Extreme behavior that recklessly endangers this country's economic future is being rewarded.

There are competing narratives of what is going on here. Each has a version which invokes adult responsibility.

One narrative has a version of Obama as the adult, bravely and heroically brokering a compromise between two obstreperous, intransigent, and equally childish and illegitimate sides. Folks who agree with this narrative accept austerity as desirable at this time, or as undesirable but unavoidable at this time.

The other narrative has a version which says the Republicans are acting like bullies, that unfortunately in life there are bullies and that what one must do as part of learning what it means to function in the adult world is that when one encounters them, one must stand up to them. Otherwise they will be back for more. And more. Some of those who agree with this narrative believe that austerity at this time will be counter-productive, that it will create even more unemployment and result in even greater deficits due to depressed demand and lower growth. And that therefore, if we cannot have further stimulus until at early 2013 at the earliest, we should at any rate make matters even worse for ourselves by adopting an austerity package at this time.

I understand the first view. I don't happen to agree with it, but I understand it.

Do those who agree with the first view understand the second view?

I find myself having difficulty understanding how those holding the first view envision us digging out.

Is it that they don't think we will get worse unemployment, worse growth, and, soon enough, larger rather than smaller deficits, along with enormous additional pain suffered by those least able to bear it and least deserving of having to bear it? Won't going down this road achieve just the kind of economy the Republicans dedicated to defeating Obama have dreamed about inflicting on the country for his re-election year? Is it noble, admirable to, arguably, reduce one's chances for re-election (his approval ratings may very well go up in the short run after the deal is cut; in fact, I fully expect that to happen) while creating further harm and pain to the most vulnerable in a way that does nothing to address the country's need to get onto a job-creating growth path?

What is the economic theory, or at least reasoning, suggesting how austerity now can lead to stronger economic growth, given the facts, I would say to the estimable Sen. Moynihan were he alive, yes, the facts indicating conditions of depressed demand and corporations sitting on piles of cash they won't invest on that account?

Why is the austerity path not simply Herbert Hoover economic policy that didn't work 80 years ago and won't work today?

Keep your eyes on the prize.

Elusive Trope — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:33:26 +0000

In reply to Once I was an idealistic

Keep your eyes on the prize.

Once I was an idealistic

Red Planet — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:24:10 +0000

In reply to The Cantors and the Boehners

Once I was an idealistic white boy growing up in the 1940s/1950s South and looking forward to the day when racism would disappear and big-hair Baptist preachers wouldn't run the world.

I'm still looking forward.

The Cantors and the Boehners

Elusive Trope — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:17:37 +0000

In reply to I could pound out a list of

The Cantors and the Boehners and the McConnells will always be with us; the Bible thumpers like Bachmann and Palin will always be with us; the pro-family adulterers will always be with us and there is nothing I can do about that.

I don't if "the always be with us" is necessarily true. If I did believe that then I basically would just give up. The fact is that they are with us at this point in time in the history which we are living and we have to find a way to deal with this reality. They are with us because this is a democracy/republic and some of our citizens want these folks to represent them. The crux of the problem is how to work "with them" while working "against them." Those who believe we can just go into 100% "against them" mode are naive in my opinion. Sometimes Obama has been a little too "with them" and other times has been plenty "against them" given the realities of the political environment.

Someday maybe future generations will look back and collectively shake their heads wondering how their ancestors could elect the Bachmanns and Cantors to represent them. It is that which I look forward to. And which I think still hangs out there as a (remote) possibility.

To the extent that this a possibility is also the possibility that the corporate oligarchists will lose their grip (which is same grip that "wealthy elites" have had since they emerged between the Tigris and Euphrates).

I could pound out a list of

Richard Day — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:04:25 +0000

In reply to Lions, Tigers and Shared Sacrifice - Oh No!

I could pound out a list of grievances I have against the new repub legislators including those in my state.

But even if this situation is eased in the next big election the corporate oligarchists will always be with us and they must be dealt with.

I love this talk about how the top 1% on the economic ladder are to be referred to as job makers--sure they provide jobs to some Spanish or Italian Yacht manufacturers who get their parts from Indonesia...

As far as corporations, they will always be with us...it is a corporate world. No frickin way are they going to be really reeled in, no frickin way are they going to be called on the carpet for antipatriotic activities, no frickin way are there going to be meaningful investigations of their activities, no frickin way are they going to be denied access to off shore tax havens.....

But we live in a democracy/republic and if people vote against their own economic interests there is not one goddamn thing I can do about it!

The Cantors and the Boehners and the McConnells will always be with us; the Bible thumpers like Bachmann and Palin will always be with us; the pro-family adulterers will always be with us and there is nothing I can do about that.

But to spend most of one's time laying the blame on President Obama is a waste of energy in my humble opinion.

The right is populated by goosesteppers and the left is a coalition of many, many different groups with divergent views.

Oh well....