dagblog - Comments for "Is there such a thing as a sincere, well informed, non-venal Republican?"

Yes, there is...but it's

jollyroger — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 01:28:18 +0000

In reply to Is there such a thing as a sincere, well informed, non-venal Republican?

Yes, there is...but it's called a newly declared Democrat.

Just because I cut you loose

jollyroger — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 15:27:25 +0000

Just because I cut you loose from the tyranny of the platform I did not mean to elide the requirement that you address adherence to an issue, not and individual, in your defense of the supposedly sincere repugnant...

Hence reference to politicians who are outliers at the edge of the party (and who, indeed, as with Lugar hang by a thread) is not convincing.

It's late and my brain is

Elusive Trope — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 03:53:25 +0000

In reply to I did not mean by the use of

It's late and my brain is functioning at a level necessary to a thorough response. But let me first throw out this: some dude living in Alaska could easily see it was it in his best economist interest to re-elect Ted Stevens, the guy who brought home the bacon.

Another thing to throw out. If one just looks at the candidate and not the entire behavior of the whole party (esp of late), I find it hard to say a professional couple who had, say, a 85K household income voting for Lugar, Brown, Snowe, Collins, or Hutchinson as being made out of sheer ignorance of how the world works, and that a reasonable person might come to conclusion that said senator would be better than the Democratic opponent.

I did not mean by the use of

jollyroger — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 03:01:37 +0000

In reply to Ah, see there's the rub. I

I did not mean by the use of the term "platform", unfairly to box you into referencing only the actual items listed on the national platform as emerging from the party convention.

Feel free, (in the interests, as it were, of honoring the demands of nuance) simply to designate an issue and then extrapolate.

I hope this freedom will empower greater clarity than manifested in your discourse above, which was unduly constrained by my clumsily put premise.

Ah, see there's the rub. I

Elusive Trope — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 01:38:09 +0000

In reply to a well-informed individual

Ah, see there's the rub. I am talking about an individual voting for another individual who happens to be a Republican, not voting for a platform.

How many people who voted for the Democrats ever glanced over, let alone know, what is in the 2008 Democratic National Platform, or Republicans of their 2008 Republican Platform?

They may connect to just one such as:

Republicans remain the party of vigorous action against crime and the party that empowers the law-abiding by protecting their right to keep and bear arms for self-protection. Our national experience over the past twenty years has shown that vigilance, tough yet fair prosecutors, meaningful sentences, protection of victims’ rights, and limits on judicial discretion protect the innocent by keeping criminals off the streets.

And as for the rest of the issues, well, the candidate seems like the one that can be trusted to make the right choice (no pun intended).

Or it could be as someone that tends to have nothing but blue dogs to vote for, I am merely going with the lesser of two evils approach, as some libertarians do with the Republicans.

But in the end well-informed implies on has consumed the appropriate information in order to make the decision. The conclusions are debatable. Although the conclusions as you see them may be self-evident. Warrantless wiring tapping is a good example. We all give up a certain amount of rights to privacy. The line is drawn at unreasonableness. What is an unreasonable invasion of privacy, what is an unreasonable search and seizure. When can we say the police acted in good faith.

And on it goes.

We could have had a two trillion dollar (with none of in tax cuts) stimulus and things could be just only marginally better. Or they could be much much better. We'll never know with pure certainty.

Peace through strength (ie pentagon gets what it wants) may have led to a more stable world than had we not done it, thereby maintain global economic stability and therefore a stronger economy and more jobs than had we slashed the defense budget.

Only in a parallel universe where this alternative occurs could we truly know.

Talk about the lamentations

jollyroger — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 01:16:11 +0000

In reply to Ah-nold, in a fun movie.

Talk about the lamentations of the women...btw, that first guy is Genghis....really.

Ah-nold, in a fun movie.

AmericanDreamer — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:42:20 +0000

In reply to Do I understand that you are

Ah-nold, in a fun movie. There in a likeable role. Not so much IRL these days. Do you suppose he supplied Maria with a Magnum?

a well-informed individual

jollyroger — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:38:06 +0000

In reply to yes we know that are

a well-informed individual could come to the conclusion that the Republican would be in his or her best interest, as well as the country's.

I don't suppose you would like to render a more granular deconstruction by citing any five Repugnant platform positions and then walking me through the reasoning via which they would fit the stated criteria, would'ja?

yes we know that are

Elusive Trope — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:31:22 +0000

In reply to unfair question because of

yes we know that are definitely low information voters on the Republican side. The most infamous are definitely dittoheads. But remember Rush hated McCain and guess you got the nomination. And it isn't like the Dems don't have their low information voters (even a blind squirrel will eventually find a nut).

Charles Blow reported on a Pew Research Center poll in October 2010 that found among other things only 62% of Democrats knew Joe Biden was VP (65% of the Repubs knew and only 54% of the Independents).

The question is whether there can be a well-informed individual (making, say, 65K or 40K a year) who still votes for Republican. On one level, since my information leads me to the other conclusion, it would be contradictory for me say this could be true. But if I acknowledge the legitimacy of having a different paradigm or frame of reference in making the choice, then, yes I could say that a well-informed individual could come to the conclusion that the Republican would be in his or her best interest, as well as the country's.

They already have one...

jollyroger — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:01:24 +0000

In reply to I hope they don't invoke a

They already have one...