dagblog - Comments for "Def. Sec. Panetta: Israel risks isolation"

Yeah it's sighteh stoopids.

artappraiser — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:38:02 +0000

In reply to Goldberg, on the stupidity of

Yeah it's *sigh*teh stoopids. Apparently not much awareness in Congress that to many in the region the PA is seen as an branch of the U.S.A.; it's pretty clear that they didn't cut them off for that reason.

Beyond that, I thought the news of the Obama admin making it a priority, scrambling to do something about it now suggested something new is up. Along with the Panetta statements. I saw some suggestions of that in the wink wink nudge nudge stuff between Sarkozy & Obama during the UN confab, as I suggested in comments on a post by Genghis while that was going on.

Goldberg, on the stupidity of

Bruce Levine — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:22:50 +0000

In reply to U.S. scrambles to keep

Goldberg, on the stupidity of cutting off aid to the PA. What may play well in Peoria is not synonymous with rational foreign policy:

It makes no sense whatsoever for Congress to suspend aid to the Palestinian Authority, unless, of course, Congress seeks to destroy the Palestinian Authority. Various American politicians, and pro-Israel activists, are lobbying for permanent cut-offs in aid to the Authority, in reaction to the Palestinian push for statehood recognition at the UN. I happen to think the statehood push is the wrong move for the Palestinians, but trying to sink the Authority over this is a most destructive act. The government of Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad is the most competent and serious governing body the Palestinians have ever had; serious economic development that has led to the creation of a larger middle class on the West Bank is only one of Authority's achievements. Those who would cut off the Authority's oxygen have to ask themselves: What will come next? A more agreeable Palestinian Authority government? Or chaos?

I suppose supporters of the settlers would like to see the Palestinian Authority disappear. Salam Fayyad is a much bigger danger to them than is Hamas. A powerful West Bank Hamas is what the settlers need to perpetuate their project. But if you're not a supporter of the settlers, and if you believe that a two-state solution is the best hope for Israel's long-term survival as Jewish and democratic state, then why would you possibly seek to undermine the Palestinian Authority now?

U.S. scrambles to keep

artappraiser — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 04:21:31 +0000

In reply to Def. Sec. Panetta: Israel risks isolation

U.S. scrambles to keep Palestinian aid flowing
By Andrew Quinn and Susan Cornwell, Oct 3, 2011 6:31pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration is lobbying Congress to unblock $200 million in aid for the Palestinian Authority that was frozen due to its bid for U.N. recognition of statehood over U.S. and Israeli objections.

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Monday the administration was in "intensive" discussions with key lawmakers who had put holds on the money, a financial lifeline for the fledgling Palestinian government-in-waiting.

"We still have some money in the pipeline but the concern is that if we don't get this going with the Congress in short order there could be an effect on the ground," Nuland told a news briefing.

"There have been some concerns in some parts of Congress and we are trying to work through those," she said....

Oops. Thanks AA.

Bruce Levine — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 00:02:57 +0000

In reply to Thank you for reminding me to

Oops. Thanks AA.

I was glad to see

artappraiser — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:33:00 +0000

In reply to Juan Cole pointed out a

I was glad to see confirmation that he saw it like this: Panetta Slams Israeli Isolation. I suspected, but wasn't sure, that it was a big deal story, but then again also thought maybe it will be taken as same old same old tough words signifying nothing.

Thank you for reminding me to

artappraiser — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:25:35 +0000

In reply to In that time-tested tradition

Thank you for reminding me to check out his take on things from time to time. BTW you forgot the link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/10/panettas-mostly...

Juan Cole pointed out a

NCD — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 17:47:48 +0000

In reply to Def. Sec. Panetta: Israel risks isolation

Juan Cole pointed out a glaring hypocrisy of the current Israeli government today:

After twisting the arms of Western European allies like Germany to oppose the Palestinian bid for membership in the United Nations, the Israelis deeply angered Germany and others by cheekily announcing that they will expand settlements yet again. The ostensible argument for opposing the Palestinian UN gambit was that it would make bilateral negotiations more difficult. But wasn’t that precisely what settlement expansion would do?

Agreed VA, and I think that's

Bruce Levine — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:16:27 +0000

In reply to I'm sure I know less than you

Agreed VA, and I think that's what Goldberg is saying as well. To the extent that Erdogan was going to look east instead of west (not counting Israel which is east of course as well), someone other than Netanyahu and Lieberman and their crowd would not have made it as easy for Turkey to abandon its long-term ally. But I think Goldberg's point in any event is that Erdogan was looking to terminate the close relationship long before the flotilla disaster.

I'm sure I know less than you

Verified Atheist — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:31:08 +0000

In reply to In that time-tested tradition

I'm sure I know less than you and Jeffrey about this, but I think that while he's mostly right about Turkey, I do think that Israel's handling of the flotilla contributed somewhat to their strained relationship. Just to be clear, Turkey's participation in the flotilla also contributed to their strained relationship. I'm not interested or informed enough to judge the players in that, but I'll put my 2 cents worth in on my interpretation of how that contributed to their strained relationship, nevertheless.

In that time-tested tradition

Bruce Levine — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 14:26:24 +0000

In reply to Def. Sec. Panetta: Israel risks isolation

In that time-tested tradition of the great Talmudic scholars and mooks like me, Jeffrey Goldberg, the closest thing to a guru on these matters as yours truly has, feels strongly both ways, i.e. not so as to Egypt and Turkey, but certainly as to Jordan (and I would add the Gulf Arab States as well):

Let's break this down country-by-country. Israel is more isolated from Egypt, but is this solely Israel's fault? There are big, chaotic things happening in Egypt, and Israel is mainly a bystander to them. Israel supported the ex-dictator, Hosni Mubarak, but then again, so did the Obama Administration. Is America, then, isolating itself from the Egyptians who overthrew Mubarak? Also: Israel has been attacked over its border from Egypt, and its embassy in Cairo was besieged. Did Israel prompt these attacks by refusing, for instance, to freeze settlements? No, of course not. Again, larger forces are at play.

Then there is Turkey. Anyone who has followed the dissolution of the Turkish-Israeli relationship understands that Israel is again, a bystander, or an object, in this drama. The Turkish leadership is turning away from Europe and turning away from America as it seeks to lead the Muslim world. I'm not sure there's much Israel could do to stop these large historical forces. A more forthright apology for the deaths in the flotilla incident might have lowered the flame a bit, but just a bit (keeping in mind, of course, that the UN found Israel's use of force excessive, but that Israel was legally justified in stopping the flotilla). I think Turkey's drift began well before the flotilla incident -- indeed, the flotilla would never have been launched had the Turks not wanted it to happen.

Now, Jordan. Here's where Panetta might have a point: Israel hasn't done enough to allay Jordan's concerns that it is not serious about the peace process. In the case of Jordan, real progress, even on a framework for negotiations, would help better that relationship. Of course, Panetta's comments came after Israel accepted the Quartet's plan for renewed peace talks, so the timing of his comments seems a bit off. I'm not sure what's behind these comments, at this particular moment -- perhaps just an attempt to underscore to Netanyahu that the U.S. remains annoyed at the decision to build new housing units in a suburb of East Jerusalem. The timing of which, of course, was terrible.