dagblog - Comments for "The Bystanders"

But in the US and given the

Resistance — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:09:39 +0000

In reply to Which is a good thing. But

But in the US and given the goals of something like reform of current system

How do you reform a system that is so corrupt, where the only voices heard are those of the lobbyist.

Trope; wake up; you can't afford a politician or justice.

Haven't you heard; the Supreme Court says money talks and has rights.

It's the Golden Rule.......... he that has the gold, rules.

I did miss the bio threads so

kgb999 — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:05:42 +0000

In reply to Maybe I wasn't that clear,

I did miss the bio threads so I'm not aware of the specifics of your history ... but I understood that the post was from your prior perspective as an activist.

I suppose I never understood why art-house movie buffs expect everyone else to suddenly catch their passion either ... I can totally see that parallel though. That's just not what I'd see as the objective of demonstrating in most instances ... but I imagine that's somewhat different for everyone. Generally, I'm not really a street-protest kind of guy. I'm more of a give-city-council-a-fit-by-using-every-obscure-ordinance-in-the-book-to-challenge-their-nonsense, file appeals and maybe bring some folks along to speak at the council meeting sort. Mixed results really.

I haven't heard anyone in the OWS movement wondering stuff like that yet. It's still kind of a bewildered feeling-out as to what to do with their new-found attention, supporters and resources.

What is the point of the

Resistance — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:59:28 +0000

In reply to Watch your video at the 34

What is the point of the non-dispersal? You may believe that this doesn't matter. That regardless of circumstances, the people have a right to disregard the demands of the state as a matter of principle.

Don't you have that ass backwards; or is that backwards.

I'm not confused though on this fact; the government derives their power from the governed.

Evidently some have forgotten that fundamental premise, some believe the government can disregard the will of the people?

Isn't that where we are now? The government off the oligarchy, by the oligarchy, for the oligarchy?

Buy a lobbyist if you want your liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

General welfare: Stay away from defenders of the oligarchy, for your own safety, stay away from officers with riot gear and guns.

Yeah. When the majority of

kgb999 — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:32:52 +0000

In reply to Ain't it funny. Back when

Yeah. When the majority of people in a nation experience a problem ... that's what usually defines "Everyobody's problem". Not sure if it's funny exactly - more a product of simple mathematics.

And for the record. Considering the rich aren't really even paying taxes (and haven't been for quite some time); and that the poor, clearly, aren't exactly an amazing tax base to look to in providing support for themselves. To whatever extent the marginalized have gotten any attention at all over the last couple decades ... who the hell do you think has been shouldering it as "their problem" .... money-unicorns?

How about a little bit of props for the Middle Class here; we're pretty much the only ones pulling any weight at all. And we genuinely aren't all white. That's a racist stereotype.

What the hell are you even

Ethanator — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:24:30 +0000

In reply to Eggzackly! Always good to

What the hell are you even talking about, bozo? Here' a hint: when the voices in your head start making sense, it's time to seek professional help. Good luck with your treatment.

What about the spiked trees

kgb999 — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:06:09 +0000

In reply to Watch your video at the 34

What about the spiked trees and all the monkey-wrenched equipment? Certainly you aren't going to pretend the folks who did that to Northwestern loggers were completely unaffiliated with the exact same movement simultaneously protesting on our logging roads?

Hell, those weren't even attacks against anyone in authority, just at random guys trying to make a living .... oorrrrr maybe that's the point. I'm surprised you could possibly have joined with a movement involved in such highly publicized acts of violence and property destruction.

I found the O'Donnell video

artappraiser — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:05:27 +0000

In reply to Go to the raw video. There

I found the O'Donnell video quite easy to find with a quick google.

Clip of Lawrence O'Donnell interview of Occupy Oakland protester Tasha Casini, link below.

It starts out with her saying they were warned they should disburse because they were in violation of Penal Code 409 or they would use "chemical weapons." Then they play a clip of the police chief at a press conference saying they had to use tear gas because bottles and rocks were being thrown. And O'Donnell asks her is that is true, that bottles and rocks were being thrown. She says that "yes! people were doing that," (she does say the yes like with an exclamation point) but adds that she thinks the use of "tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades" were an inappropriate response to bottles and rocks being thrown at police "in full riot gear," and that they should absolutely not use "chemical weapons."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA

Interesting that with this one protester, it's an argument about equality of weaponry, rather than the "peaceful protesters vs. over-reactive police" that is the typical thing I've seen with other Occupy sites.

Interesting too that the video has had a lot of views. I suspect this kind of result is one of the reasons individuals speaking for the movement to the media has been quite controversial in Occupy Wall Street General Assembly.

Eggzackly! Always good to

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:02:55 +0000

In reply to "But then again, why am I

Eggzackly! Always good to learn I got'em pegged correctly from the start. On to the next strawman, eh? Sure beats staying on topic and speaking original thoughts. but for now, just know one thing: I manage my anger very well, indeed! But I don't suffer fools gladly.

"But then again, why am I

Ethanator — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 01:54:39 +0000

In reply to Review the video. Look at the

"But then again, why am I wasting my time arguing with a troll. I'm certain you're already on to your next strawman argument in support of whatever talking points you are being fed."

And I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a cartoon Wobbly with anger issues. Smell you later.

"Find proof of the incidents

Ethanator — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 01:50:38 +0000

In reply to Go to the raw video. There

"Find proof of the incidents you are convinced were sufficient to justify the police response."

Where did I say the police response was justified? The police overreactions to these protests have been the single most effective tool in getting OWS' message heard by a wider audience.

But, unlike the upper-middle-class twits who are doing most of the occupying, I know that if you start trying to get tough, or even mouthy, with someone with the legal authority to beat, tase or shoot you, you're likely to get beaten, tased, or shot. And, if there's any truth to the claims that the police were in some manner provoked, then these protestors already lost the argument.