dagblog - Comments for "This Just Proves My Point"

I do forgive you. It seemed

Donal — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:16:09 +0000

In reply to You did post it on my blog as

I do forgive you. It seemed pertinent to this subject, so I put it here. The way you reacted says it was indeed pertinent.

without making things

Elusive Trope — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 02:19:21 +0000

In reply to Exactly. The point is when

without making things worse.

But that responsibility doesn't also belong on the other side, too?

I've seen a couple of videos

Elusive Trope — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 02:17:31 +0000

In reply to "... you can see that there

I've seen a couple of videos and none of them actually show the officer who actually shot it. Want to post some video that actually does and also shows (or another video) that shows said police officer shooting it

.You desire it seems to want in a land of demons and angels. A land where there are no idiots, where police officers don't follow protocol and commit abuse not because they are demons, but idiots. In your world, if it was wily-nily then they must be demons.

And yes, the people in the video are dealt with harshly. But the police are there to maintain order. Once a police officer tells you do something, you do it. When they grab your arm you don't try and pull away. If you want to confront the authority, fine. All the more power to you. I've done a number of times. But I understood the limits. This isn't, in spite of some the revolutionary rhetoric, Iran or Egypt or Russia or Chile in the bad old days. No one in these protests were going to "disappear." No one was going to come home and find their family "disappeared."

In the end, where are the rights of the city to maintain control? At what point is a citizen in the right to ignore the requests of the police? And when you answer, you answer not just for those who are aligned with your politics. You answer for the neo-nazis, the anti-abortionists, the people who want to stand by a funeral procession and scream that someone died because god hates fags.

And don't worry. I will stay home at this time. And given the size of the crowds, so are a lot of other people. And maybe they are just those who watch Fox News.

your apologetic attitude

Elusive Trope — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 01:59:46 +0000

In reply to Trope and anyone else who

your apologetic attitude towards stories of abuse

When there is abuse, I do not have an apologetic attitude in my opinion.

I do look at both sides. I don't give the protesters a pass in judging their behavior just because I might agree with their politics.

Apparently there is some wide-spread agreement that the protesters have no responsibility, that they are not accountable in any way, they don't have to be answerable for their actions. The moment that one can point to this or that abuse on the police means any discussion about the behavior of the protesters is off limits.

You did post it on my blog as

Elusive Trope — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 01:32:30 +0000

In reply to Maybe you believe that I was

You did post it on my blog as opposed to writing a blog around it or posting it in the "In The News" section. So forgive me if I thought you were attempting to make some kind of point in response to what I wrote in the blog. You could have also posted it below someone's else post and said something to the effect "hey, you might be interested in this."

Maybe you believe that I was

Donal — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:43:33 +0000

In reply to Maybe you believe that I

Maybe you believe that I was posting this for your eyes only...

Musical interlude

Resistance — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:19:37 +0000

In reply to But then the point becomes we

Musical interlude

Trope and anyone else who

A Guy Called LULU — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:29:00 +0000

In reply to This Just Proves My Point

Trope and anyone else who might be interested in the culture of a New York City police precinct should listen to the online streaming story linked below. It is about a cop who tape recorded cops and it reveals things we all wish were not true and which many try to ignore and pretend are not true. It gives evidence of how totally pervasive within the cop culture is the criminal conduct that is revealed. The story does not directly apply to the cops actions in dealing with the OCS bunch but I believe it tells us things that are pertinent when judging, as we must, who to believe or to give the benefit of the doubt to when conflicting stories are told. I am aware, trope, that you have professed to know that the cops are not all innocent, but considering your apparent strong interest in what is going on coupled with your apologetic attitude towards stories of abuse, as well as your advice to cooperate with their bullying, makes me think that you should look closer at available evidence. Begin listening at the seventeen minute mark.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/right-to-rema...

But then the point becomes we

SleepinJeezus — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 22:02:24 +0000

In reply to Maybe you believe that I

But then the point becomes we should not exercise our free speech and assembly rights because it might invite a police reaction that is dangerous, illegal, counter-productive, excessive, and stoopid!

Ok, pal, I guess you're talking some kind of sense now! Congratulations! Can you point me toward an interpreter?

Maybe you believe that I

Elusive Trope — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:07:00 +0000

In reply to Witness to the ?Occupy

Maybe you believe that I believe that Oakland Police and the others brought in from the outside acted perfectly, that abuses did not occur and excessive force was not used. If so, then you are mistaken.