dagblog - Comments for "Poverty Amid Plenty – America’s Continuing Shame"

On Monday, the Census Bureau

artappraiser — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:01:57 +0000

In reply to Poverty Amid Plenty – America’s Continuing Shame

On Monday, the Census Bureau will release a long-promised alternate measure meant to do a better job of counting the resources of the needy and bills they have to pay....New York Times, page A1, November 4, 2011.

Wait a minute. I thought

Ethanator — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:12:10 +0000

In reply to Cynicism also, among poverty,

Wait a minute. I thought only Democratic mayors taking their marching orders from Herr Obama were trying to disperse the OWS protests.

No I wouldn't identify with

Elusive Trope — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:29:18 +0000

In reply to Wondering, the Trope, would

No I wouldn't identify with them. For the record, there was nothing in what you linked to indicate that they sending in the unsavory types from the 99% in order to "smash heads." In fact, as the story relate it they are taking a hands off approach and not intervening one way or another, instead letting the protesters deal with those who are acting badly.

The police, whom many occupiers see as the enemy and who work under a mayor who’s made no secret of his distaste for the occupiers, have little reason to help them maintain order, and rarely seem to have entered the park over the last week for anything short of an assault. When officers have gone in, a wave of people carrying drugs (or with other reasons to fear arrest) moves away from them while others circle tightly around, cameras out. Even when organizers have requested their intervention, police enter to a mixed chorus of “brutality” and “pig” calls side by side with chanted reminders that “you are the 99%.”

What I would put out there is that there are bad cops acting badly and good cops who do their best to perform their jobs. It is the latter with whom I would identify, just as I would identify with anyone attempting to protest in what I believe is an appropriate manner. The bad cops need to suffer appropriate consequences. (and if there is a policy in place about purposively sending folks to the site in order to facilitate confrontations and conflict, then it needs to be found up as high up the chain as it goes) The police who are just trying to do their jobs, and maintain order, should be given respect.

If one or two protesters do something over-the-line and violent, it would be wrong to say they reflect all protesters. The same goes for the police.

And it would seem that the protesters at the Occupy site wish the police to step in to keep out those who are aligned with the movement. They wish to keep some order themselves, and to filter who and who doesn't get to join in the offerings at the site. And for that they want the police to step in to deal with it.

I think this is a good line:

But while officers may be in a no-win situation, at the mercy of orders carried on shifting political winds and locked into conflict with a so-far almost entirely non-violent protest movement eager to frame the force as a symbol of the oppressive system they’re fighting, the NYPD seems to have crossed a line in recent days, as the park has taken on a darker tone with unsteady and unstable types suddenly seeming to emerge from the woodwork.

One big question is whether it is the action of a few police officers who are crossing the line for whatever reason, or whether it is a organizational strategy and reflective of the whole Department (and my guess is if it was the latter, there would be those in the Department who personally disagreed with it).

Another question, is, if it is true, that there is an effort to "frame the force as a symbol of the oppressive system their fighting," whether this is appropriate framing strategy, or whether it facilitates the potential for future violent conflicts.

Wondering, the Trope, would

NCD — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:38:22 +0000

In reply to Thanks for pointing this out

Wondering, the Trope, would he identify and stand with the cops sending the homeless and mentally ill to OWS to apparently create incidents so they can smash heads, the cops who demonstrated against the indictments of cops in the Bronx, some grabbing news people and their cameras, the OWS people who try to feed the homeless and anyone else at Zuccotti, or ......?

Thanks for pointing this out

Resistance — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:02:16 +0000

In reply to Cynicism also, among poverty,

Thanks for pointing this out NCD.

Over on another post "A Progressive Tea party Isn't the Answer"

Some blind fools, suggest "Oh hell no, there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy, to undermine Democracy."

"One of the most ridiculous aspects of democracy will always remain... the fact that it has offered to its mortal enemies the means by which to destroy it" Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels

Maybe the next move by the Mayor and his ~~brown shirts~~ Blue shirts will be, burning down the tents and the fire just happened to spread to adjacent buildings, then blame the communists.

An old trick, employed by Nero, as Rome burned, blame the Christians.

Can’t the FBI investigate this tactic, whose sole purpose is to incite acts of violence?

Maybe they can develop a sting operation? Drunk A is removed by OWS enforcers, but not before a tracking device is placed. Drunk A is taken to a local hospital and dropped off at the door. The police are called by hospital staff and the cops return Drunk A back to the park. Proving to the world; the tactics employed by the government, to discredit and harass the OWS movement.

They've tried tear gas canisters and the public turned on the tactic. Maybe this new tactic by the "mayor’s army" will further expose to what lengths the governing rulership will take, to undermine the peoples will.

Cynicism also, among poverty,

NCD — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 04:56:36 +0000

In reply to Poverty Amid Plenty – America’s Continuing Shame

Cynicism also, among poverty, mental illness and plenty? Even more shameful?

Angry NYC cops who 3 days ago grabbed cameras and blocked news from covering the indictment on 1600 counts of 16 NYC cops are now reported to be sending the mentally ill and homeless to OWS at Zuccotti Park. This is covered also at Crooks and Liars, and without mention of cynical police subterfuge at the New York Times.

Harry Siegel, the NY Daily News:

Two different drunks I spoke with last week told me they’d been encouraged to “take it to Zuccotti” by officers who’d found them drinking in other parks, and members of the community affairs working group related several similar stories they’d heard while talking with intoxicated or aggressive new arrivals.

The NYPD’s press office declined to comment on the record about any such policy, but it seems like a logical tactic from a Bloomberg administration that has done its best to make things difficult for the occupation — a way of using its openness against it.

Some might call these most unfortunate street folks 'Mayor Bloomberg's Army'.

Frank Serpico was not just the only honest cop in New York in his time, he was possibly the only truly honest cop, mayor or public official in NYC history.

What resistance said.

Bruce Levine — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 02:58:23 +0000

In reply to Amen.

What resistance said.

Amen.

Resistance — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 02:47:43 +0000

In reply to I started a prayer to God. I

Amen.

I started a prayer to God. I

The Decider — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 02:24:06 +0000

In reply to Poverty Amid Plenty – America’s Continuing Shame

I started a prayer to God. I wanted to ask him why he allowed such poverty when he had the power to put a stop to it.

But I didn't finish it. I was afraid that he might ask me the same question.