dagblog - Comments for "Modernising liberalism"

Thanks for the reminder about

EmmaZahn — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:10:52 +0000

In reply to p.s. Just found that Michael

Thanks for the reminder about Lind. He keeps disappearing from my reader feed for some reason. I just added him again and found his latest comparing a broken red state economic model to Walter Russell Mead's broken blue social model. It concludes:

The red state model is (also) broken - Great Recession - Salon.com

Both the blue economic model and the red economic model are parasitic, not productive. Neither provides a model for a decent American future.

Amen. What other conclusion is there?

Since I am the center of the

Elusive Trope — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:15:13 +0000

In reply to I for one noticed. I'm sure

Since I am the center of the universe, the pushback I have endured is more significant.

Seriously, thanks for the link. I don't believe that I am able to express in the best way what I think needs to be expressed. So I am always grateful for those who either state it better or point to those who do.

But I also think a vigorously

Verified Atheist — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:17:11 +0000

In reply to By the way, my views have

But I also think a vigorously egalitarian and democratic society would provide a better overall quality of life for most of its members than the grossly unequal neoliberal market-obsessed monstrosities beloved by the Clintons, Shellenberger and Nordhaus, etc..

This resonates with me. I like fair, but I'd rather have an unfair heaven than a fair hell. I.e., (and this is a deliberate false choice for illustration purposes) I'd rather have a case where everyone has shelter and enough food but some people have more money than Zeus than a case where everyone is poor and doesn't know where their next meal is coming from. So, then, false choice aside, the question becomes, how can we raise the median "happiness quotient"? I think that your rule-of-thumb that no one should be making more than 10x what others make is a good one. I also think that ultimately we need to consider reducing the number of hours we work per week. Efficiencies have improved, and machines are capable of doing more and more of our work. Thus, in order to keep everyone employed, we need to be working less or consuming more. So far, we've gone almost 100% with consuming more.

Another "new kind of

artappraiser — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:43:29 +0000

In reply to Modernising liberalism

Another "new kind of liberalism" view I just ran across:

Neither Revolution Nor Reform: A New Strategy for the Left
By Gar Alperovitz, Dissent Magazine, Fall, 2011

Bio: Gar Alperovitz, Lionel R. Bauman Professor of Political Economy at the University of Maryland and Co-Founder of the Democracy Collaborative, is the author, most recently, of America Beyond Capitalism and (with Lew Daly) Unjust Deserts. He is working on a book on system-changing institutional directions.

Excerpts to give an idea:

....what happens if a system neither reforms nor collapses in crisis?

Quietly, a different kind of progressive change is emerging, one that involves a transformation in institutional structures and power, a process one could call “evolutionary reconstruction.”....

...One thing is certain: traditional liberalism, dependent on expensive federal policies and strong labor unions, is moribund. The government no longer has much capacity to use progressive taxation to achieve the goal of equity or to regulate corporations effectively. Congressional deadlocks on such matters are the rule, not the exception. At the same time, ongoing economic stagnation or mild upturns followed by further decay, and “real” unemployment rates in the 15 percent to 16 percent range appear more likely than a return to booming economic times.

IRONICALLY, THIS grim new order may open the way for the kinds of “evolutionary reconstructive” institutional change described here.....

AT THE heart of the spectrum of emerging institutional change is the traditional radical principle that the ownership of capital should be subject to democratic control. In a nation where 1 percent of the population owns nearly as much wealth as the entire bottom half of the nation, this principle may be particularly appealing to the young—the people who will shape the next political era.....

Agreed. In a world with ideas

Qnonymous — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:28:58 +0000

In reply to I think some of these folks

Agreed. In a world with ideas like the 99% having moved from the fringes to the mainstream, these guys sound like some ancient wheezing think tank that's run out of thinks.

I for one noticed. I'm sure

artappraiser — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:07:05 +0000

In reply to We must reject nostalgia for

I for one noticed. I'm sure they're getting pushback on this, too, much more than you've probably endured. They have a lot of experience in pushback, as I recall from 2004-5. Actually, they seem to be pretty determined now, more than 5 years later, to stir a certain type of pot as a major goal in life. So it's not surprising with all that practice that you feel they are saying things you agree with better than you can say them, no?

Richard, Absolutely feel free

artappraiser — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:04:16 +0000

In reply to Oh I have many reactions to

Richard,

Absolutely feel free to start a blog on anything I post in this section at any time including this! I use it to share things I've read with others here without having to furnish a full fledged blog entry putting my own thoughts on the content. Just recommending it for the quality or some other particular reason.

I just use this section like I recall Genghis originally explaining it, as a place to recommend/share things you've read without having to put the work of a blog into it.

Actually I think the opposite from your reaction when I see people post stuff in this section with lengthy added opinions of their own. When I see that, I always think "why the heck didn't you do a blog post instead of putting that here"? If it's more your work than the original author's, then it's a blog, with some ownership interest, as it were.

I do disagree that this is the wrong section to have lengthy discussions, though. Especially when it's already an opinion piece. I don't see why that would require adding another writer's opinion on top of a writer's opinion, i.e., a blog post. We have the tracking system here, so a discussion can continue in any section on any old type of post for quite some time.

I think some of these folks

Dan Kervick — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:02:28 +0000

In reply to I'm with DanK on this one.

I think some of these folks out demonstrating yesterday in Conway, New Hampshire actually have a better sense of what is new and modern than do Shellenberger and Nordhaus - even though some of them are old-timers.

I'm told the cheeky old guy in the middle is named "Harvey", and that he is a WWII vet from Wolfeboro.

p.s. Just found that Michael

artappraiser — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:44:09 +0000

In reply to Thought provoking. I wrote

p.s. Just found that Michael Lind has been writing on similar topics recently in his column at Salon.com. I remember that you, like me, often find his pieces thought provoking. If you haven't been checking him, you might find his last few pieces worthwhile.

Sorry you lost your comment.

artappraiser — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:39:44 +0000

In reply to Thought provoking. I wrote

Sorry you lost your comment. I have found that sometimes when that happens it's not a total bummer, as in the process of trying to remember what you wrote over a couple days, you firm up your own thoughts. Possibly some kind of neural net thing....

{Warning for those who don't like meta, read no further. }

Speaking of neurology, ditto on orange, I think it does irritate many folks' nervous systems (some artists have used it for that effect.) I too find Al Jazeera's site design as a whole (not just the orange,) particularly irritating , and sometimes suspect it was intentional at the start and as they changed their editorial direction, they didn't care about changing design, too busy with other stuff. Daily Kos' design used to be equally irritating but I find their new re-design to be much easier on the nervous system even though they are now stuck with the orange as a trademark.