dagblog - Comments for "Bill Cosby, Tired Conservative ?"

Bill Cosby was skeptical that

rmrd0000 — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:17:46 +0000

In reply to Cosby is already solidly your

Bill Cosby was skeptical that Obama would be taken seriously by whites when he made his 2008 appearance on "Larry King". Here is his view of the positive parenting and family values images of the Obamas in 2009 when he was on "meet The Press".

In April 2011, Cosby ridiculed a Presidential run by Donald Trump and made the following statement about Barack and Michelle Obama on "The View":

“I want to help whoever the president may be. But I like [Obama] very, very much. I love his wife, I love his children, I love his mother in law, I think they have a dog … I love his dog.”

.....I never heard anyone

rmrd0000 — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:03:09 +0000

In reply to Agreed that's just obnoxious

.....I never heard anyone criticize him for saying "poor Black people are to be left to their own devices". Who was/is saying that?

The post was about words attributed to Bill Cosby that Cosby never said.

Cosby is already solidly your

artappraiser — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:15:18 +0000

In reply to In the same sense that those

Cosby is already solidly your camp and pretty much pushes the far-leftern edge of "possible" under Democratic leadership until honest Democrats reclaim their party.

How do you know that?

I re-read Ta-Nehisi's May 2008 article on Cosby that he linked to in the more current post, and in it he says this, which I remember seeing on the tube, my bold:

(Curiously, Cosby is noncommittal verging on prickly when it comes to Obama. When Larry King asked him whether he supported Obama, he bristled: “Do you ask white people this question? … I want to know why this fellow especially is brought up in such a special way. How many Americans in the media really take him seriously, or do they look at him like some prize brown baby?” The exchange ended with Cosby professing admiration for Dennis Kucinich. Months later, he rebuffed my requests for his views on Obama’s candidacy.)

In the same sense that those

Lazy KGB — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:21:45 +0000

In reply to In some sense, those who are

In the same sense that those who are looking to expand higher cognition should think "how do I shove this ice-pick most deeply into my cranium."

If "on the left" is just a meaningless label willing to advance *any* policy as long as it helps expand power ... what the hell is the point of being "on the left?"

Outcomes are what convince people. Not bullshit. If Democrats were to deliver on promises, you won't have to convince anyone - the benefits of Democratic leadership would be clearly apparent. Sadly, Democrats are completely uninterested in actually governing or delivering positive outcomes. They are typified by pathetic excuses (everyone else is to blame for every failure) and refusing to stand for anything at all while falling all over themselves trying to "convince" people to keep working against their own interests as the status quo is protected at all costs.

Cosby is already solidly your camp and pretty much pushes the far-leftern edge of "possible" under Democratic leadership until honest Democrats reclaim their party. What, exactly, do you think he needs to be convinced of ... he's a definitive member of the "good" 1% you guys cater policy to entirely.

Persuasion is but one arrow in a political arsenal. And not even the most potent one. To be successful in politics, ultimately people who remain unconvinced simply must be prevailed over. If a party is unable/unwilling to do this, or if they are unable to properly identify appropriate tactical pivots in dynamic situations to coerce results to the promised outcomes, they are simply unqualified to lead.

The problem I see is that the nation is filled with people who are almost entirely unlike mega-millionaire celebrities such as Cosby. What really needs to happen is that Obama's conservative Democrats need to figure out how to convince us that you care about *anyone* beyond those who pay you millions of dollars to do what they want ... like Cosby is able to do.

The "professional left" doesn't have an image marketing problem. The bulk of the nation consistently supports them - both in policy and now protest. Third Way Democrats are the ones who's ideology is on the popularity ropes - and that ideology sure as hell isn't liberal or "on the left". Americans hate them more than anything ... Third-wayers only survive by pretending to be liberals and then using their money and control of obscure procedures to internally kill off/neutralize the real-deal *after* popular liberal proposals deliver election wins.

If those"on the left" want to establish leadership credibility, they need to cut loose the deadwood who are running around trying to call rehashed (and perennially unpopular) Republican legislation from the 90s "liberal" ... and actually try to deliver liberal policy when the nation elects politicians flying the liberal banner into office. Maybe even spend their energy forming political coalitions that *gasp* actually agree with their political views - instead of focusing on trying to placate the few who don't.

Agreed that's just obnoxious

Lazy KGB — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:20:26 +0000

In reply to Bill Cosby, Tired Conservative ?

Agreed that's just obnoxious and silly. Good highlight.

OTOH, I've seen plenty on the left (Dagbloggers, even) use the device of writing a post from the first person narrative perspective as various Democratic targets ... typically putting some pretty inflammatory fabricated statements in the mouths of hated Republicans which were, at best, hyperbolic paraphrases. It's what they would have said if they were being honest, though!

The device/tactic does not seem uncommon in the political space - across the entire political spectrum - and certainly doesn't seem to be specifically tied to the race of the individual being parodied. How is what was done here different from what Dagbloggers do on occasion?

And while honestly, I never entirely agreed with the criticism leveled at Cos on that whole "fathers" thing ... my impression of the criticism is that Cosby's formula was totally unfair in placing the majority of weight and responsibility for what can only be described as multi-generational systemic high-density poverty and the associated negative impacts this has on individuals and families on the crappy parenting of America's black fathers.

I never heard anyone criticize him for saying "poor Black people are to be left to their own devices". Who was/is saying that?

Very.

Michael Maiello — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:38:49 +0000

In reply to Thanks. Useful

Very.

Thanks. Useful

Flavius — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:42:55 +0000

In reply to Cornel West has said the

Thanks. Useful

Cornel West has said the

rmrd0000 — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 04:59:17 +0000

In reply to And, yeah, he has a point.

Cornel West has said the Black community is not more homophobic than everyone else, but the Black community is not any less homophobic than other groups. I have repeatedly mentioned that 80% of Black voters in Ohio voted for a Presidential candidate who supported Gay marriage. Blacks still caught flack despite the 80% vote. The White vote for the pro-Gay marriage candidate was nowhere 80%, but there was no criticism of White voters. The vote on California Gay marriage vote against the Gay community because no one came to talk to older Black voters about the issue. The Gay marriage proposal passed in predominately Black Washington D.C.

There is obviously homophobia in the Black community. Some churches hone in on the message of Sodom and it's sister city which views male homosexuals as rapists. That influence probably accounts for some of the homophobia in the Black community.

Hardcore rap sometimes carries an homophobic message. I have pointed out before that when a rapper's degradation of Black females is allowed, it makes it harder to argue that bashing other ethnic groups or sexual orientations crosses a line.

I don't know if the cultural influence of religion trumps the influence of rap. It also possible that people who feel oppressed find some relief in abusing a group that appears to be weaker and neither religion or rap plays a role in the hatred.

And, yeah, he has a point.

Michael Maiello — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:20:29 +0000

In reply to Black voters in general tend

And, yeah, he has a point. Fathers are important. So far as social issues go, it would be nice to see the black community move leftward on rights for homosexuals. But, that's another issue. I would certainly admit that if I'd grown up in, say, inner city Philadelphia instead of the small town were I was raised, I might not be so cavalier in some of my own beliefs.

Black voters in general tend

rmrd0000 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:38:14 +0000

In reply to The Cos is not likely to

Black voters in general tend to be social conservatives, so Cosby is representative of a majority opinion. Michael Eric Dyson wrote a book, "Is Bill Cosby Right: Or Has The Black Middle Class Lost It's Mind?", criticizing Cosby for questioning some behavior patterns in the Black community, so Murphy is not alone in his response. Put to a vote of which position is better for the Black community, I think Dyson and Murphy would lose. Even Barack Obama talk about the importance of father's in the Black community.

One concern about talking about internal issues in the Black community has been that Conservatives would use the discussions to further demonize the Black community. As, Cosby correctly points out, the Conservative demonization will occur no matter what gets said in Black communities.