dagblog - Comments for "Nostalgia for Hypocrisy (and the War on Christmas)"

Interestingly enough, the

cmaukonen — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 04:55:38 +0000

In reply to Nostalgia for Hypocrisy (and the War on Christmas)

Interestingly enough, the Puritans really hated Christmas and New England had it outlawed for quite some time.

我得罪了! (That's "I'm offended"

Verified Atheist — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 12:01:44 +0000

我得罪了! (That's "I'm offended" in Mandarin.)

Speaking of which, for those who missed this (like me), here's Fox News and Newt Gingrich claiming that not only can staffers not say Merry Christmas, but they also can't say Happy New Year:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/18/no-merry-christmas-us-house-m...

Here's PolitiFact's response:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/dec/21/newt-ging...

Happy New Year!

Elusive Trope — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 05:32:32 +0000

In reply to I dig the quotes Trope. I've

Happy New Year!

I dig the quotes Trope. I've

kyle flynn — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 04:21:22 +0000

In reply to being satisfied is not one of

I dig the quotes Trope. I've just always assumed that's how folks approach conversations like these. But for the record, I reserve the right to be wrong as hell about pretty much everything and invite all comers to do the same. Happy New Year!

Hey, I didn't bring it up,

kyle flynn — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 04:01:43 +0000

In reply to Let me point out that I

Hey, I didn't bring it up, either.

I'm sorry your lukewarm, public "Christianity" excludes the important, practical questions you mention. It's among the many reasons I left the faith behind long, long ago. Hopefully some of you can figure out how to resolve the issue, although I have my doubts that anything can be done about it or that it was ever any better. What I do know, and this study supports, is that among us secular folk it's not one of our problems. We're far more likely to wrestle out in the open about social justice issues and work toward solutions. And while it seems you and I share a lack of appetite for certain things theological, I think we part ways dramatically when it comes to the role we think Christian moral philosophy has in contributing to a better life on earth for all of us. There is simply too much garnish cluttering that plate. What we need isn't "better Christians" or a "different Christianity," it's more non-believers. Santa and otherwise.

being satisfied is not one of

Elusive Trope — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 02:56:48 +0000

In reply to All right trope, have it your

being satisfied is not one of strong suits. not to get into a lot of details, this particular issue is one i've struggling with and so i am probably a little over sensitive about it. which is probably a way of saying that i am projecting on to you facets i am struggling with on a personal level. i apologize if i've been a little over the top on this.

long ago I read Rollo May's The Courage to Create, in which he spoke of the courage of our convictions:

A paradox characteristic of every kind of courage here confronts us. It is the seeming contradiction that we must be fully committed, but we must also be aware at the same time that we might possibly be wrong. This dialectic relationship between conviction and doubt is characteristic of the highest types of courage, and gives the lie to the simplistic definitions that identify courage with mere growth.

The relationship between commitment and doubt is by no means an antagonistic one. Commitment is healthiest when it is not without doubt, but in spite of doubt. To believe fully and at the same moment to have doubts is not at all a contradiction: it presupposes a greater respect for truth, an awareness that truth always goes beyond anything that can be said or done at any given moment. To every thesis there is an antithesis, and to this there is a synthesis. Truth is thus a never-dying process. We then know the meaning of the statement attributed to Leibnitz: “I would walk twenty miles to listen to my worst enemy if I could learn something.”

I have fallen way short of this ideal, not I would expect to be perfect. But in the recent days, these words have a deeper resonance as does the fact of the wide gap between of how I have chosen to live my life and the ideals swirling somewhere inside me.

Let me point out that I

Doctor Cleveland — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 01:47:04 +0000

In reply to Wow. I didn't anticipate a

Let me point out that I didn't bring up the "Immaculate Conception" example, and would never use that as an example of something that a serious Christian ought to know. In general, I'm not terribly interested in theology per se. And I'm not very interested in strictly theological debates. But the "Immaculate Conception" example does nicely illustrate a topic about which Christians radically disagree; it's a doctrine that some consider extremely important, and others consider downright blasphemous.

What does matter is that the superficial expressions of Christianity required to avoid sectarian debates also exclude any serious discussion of Christian ethics or Christian moral philosophy. Our lukewarm public "Christianity" excludes debates over theoretical abstractions like the question of Mary or the exact significance of Christian ceremonies, but it also excludes practical questions such as "What do we need to do for the poor?" and "Are our prison systems just to our prisoners?"

All right trope, have it your

kyle flynn — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 01:40:25 +0000

In reply to After posting it, it occurred

All right trope, have it your way. It seems you aren't satisfied until everyone approaches these issues with the same sensitivities as you do.

From my limited understanding of the ways of the heavens and the earth, it appears that a particular salvation myth may be a fairy tale.

Of course, it also appears as if physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their mass.

And while we're at it, John 14:6 seems pretty rigid to me. Do something about that, would ya?

After posting it, it occurred

Elusive Trope — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 00:31:41 +0000

In reply to I agree that the post isn't

After posting it, it occurred to me you might think I was referring to you with the "blathering" remark, but that was not my intention at all. I was just trying to find something that would be public in a somewhat similar fashion as all of the Christmas - Holiday expressions, which is in its own way rather unique from a national point of view. I wasn't attempting to say you were trying to suppress anyone from saying thing here, nor is the candy cane forest remark some attempt to suppress in my first or current impression. It was just another way of saying 'may you each keep the winter holidays in your own delusions.' Which is another way of saying you're one of the elite (chosen few) who have had the scales removed from your eyes and can see what is truly there between heaven and earth. It is a fine line between acknowledging that such things appear to as fairy tales and asserting that such are truly fairy tales. That might be splitting hairs, but I don't believe so. Or so I believe now. But as saying goes, I could be wrong, caught as I am in my own delusions.

I agree that the post isn't

kyle flynn — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 23:52:17 +0000

In reply to For me, Doc's post was not

I agree that the post isn't there to validate any particular set of beliefs, but I do think it nibbles around those edges. I mean who's to say what's shallow and what's fully engaged? Take your museum goers. Sure, it isn't arrogant or lacking in humility to conclude as an observer that one is more engaged than the other. But it's both when you do it from a first person point of view. Try it with me. Museum-goer #2 believes he was more deeply involved and engaged with the exhibit than museum-goer #1, whom he is sure had a superficial experience at best. How could MG#2 possibly know that?

As for the rest of your metaphor, I don't see what you mean. "If I had my way, I'd do away with all this blathering." Are you suggesting that is somehow my point of view? Because it's all there in writing. I haven't tried to suppress anyone's input. Believe what you want. Or as Doc put it, "may you each keep the winter holidays in your own ways." (Although Scrooge's nephew would protest to that phrasing.) But I have made some assertions, among them that the myths of Santa and the Nativity are equivalent. And one thing about that that's sort of weird to me is millions of people think I'm going to hell for believing it, where as I just think those millions simply believe a fairy tale (the Nativity myth, that is), with or without meaning . And I'll reiterate I think this post suffers from a small case of howtobeachristianitis. And your reply suffers a bit from the howtobeamuseumgoer flu.