dagblog - Comments for "Tebow, Santorum and the American Cultural Wars"

One of the more interesting

Elusive Trope — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:52:44 +0000

In reply to I would assume that there are

One of the more interesting tv shows I have seen was a round table discussion hosted by Bill Moyers regarding the story of Noah (it was part of his Genesis series). Of course, Bill Moyers being Bill Moyers, he had a diverse group of biblical scholars and theologians to engage the topic.

The points here would be 1) there are a multitude of interpretations for everything in the Bible; and 2) it is possible to have a civilized discussion regarding the diversity of interpretations.

It is easy for those who hold a majority view, or at least a majority view in their local community, to become lulled into a sense of the rightness of their particular interpretation. If one is not exposed to other views, or more specifically exposed to differing view by those who are able to articulate well these views from a deep and sincere study of the topic matter, for many it just a matter that they haven't seriously contemplated differing views.

Not to long ago I had a short conversation with an evangelical in which he expressed the view which amounted to either one followed his particular brand of Biblical interpretation or one followed the hedonistic path of Hollywood. I'm sure if one pressed him, he would acknowledge there are other Christians living (or trying to live) a good life, that he was aware of these folks whether they be Presbyterians or Methodists or Amish. But his working awareness, the one he filtered the world around him on a day to day basis was the more distorted view.

I would assume that there are

rmrd0000 — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:30:07 +0000

In reply to I have to admit a bit of

I would assume that there are Biblical scholars who have a much different interpretation of how God viewed homosexuality than the more universally excepted view. There are differences between what the more liberal Jesus said and what the more conservative Paul wrote (the Pauline view). Many Fundamentalists say that Paul's words are equal to those of Jesus.

It is probably best if we

rmrd0000 — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:16:41 +0000

In reply to Regarding sexism (aside from

It is probably best if we simply do not communicate.

Regarding sexism (aside from

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:56:15 +0000

In reply to Lot offered up his daughters

Regarding sexism (aside from offering up one's virgin daughters as rape bait), Lot's wife looked back and was turned to salt. Lot looked back 2 verses later and nothing happened to him. Glass ceiling, eh?

I have to admit a bit of

Elusive Trope — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:45:33 +0000

In reply to One question to be asked is

I have to admit a bit of ignorance regarding the some of the specifics of religious history in this country as it unfolded over the past couple of centuries.

For instance, I was unaware of the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy that occurred in the Presbyterian Church during the 1920's and 1930's. And I was raised Presbyterian. And doing some research for my previous blog, I learned more about the split that occurred between the Baptists, and the rise of the Southern Baptists conservatives.

One does have to ask where does this resistance to change come from? There is definitely an element of adherence to a set of beliefs as one has come to belief - a matter of faith. I have my own faith, and it is what it is because it is what resonates within me.

I do have doubts about whether how I personally understand spiritual matters is correct. I believe I will always doubt, this is part of the human condition. If I was a Christian, I would think of Jesus on the cross when he asked why had he been forsaken. I believe living with doubt is a fundamental facet of faith.

And doubt allows one to be open to other interpretations, other ways of seeing how spirituality manifests itself in our lives.

Most (or close to most) of those with liberal religious views have had to arrive at their beliefs by leaving behind some of what they were taught by their Church and/or their parents and community. There are few liberal Christians that I have known who relate their conversion as coming in some "born again" epiphany moment, but rather it was a long and most times subtle result of contemplation and searching.

Fundamentalists on the other hand, I have seen to me be more locked into the truth with a capital T. There can be no doubt. Doubt is a sign of a lost of faith. Not just doubt about God and Jesus, but in the specific interpretations of the word of God. They either have always believed what they believed - just as their parents have believed, as their Church has taught, or they come to it through some momentary conversion where the Truth is revealed - they were wrong before, and now they see.

A key here is these interpretations are made by humans, who are guided, if given the benefit of the doubt, by that which spiritually resonates with them, motivated solely with finding the right path no matter what that turns out to be.

If we are honest with ourselves, much of what resonates with us does so because it conforms with how we already understand the world (spiritual and otherwise), does so because it provides a comforting and comfortable feeling. And we are raised in society which is based on the patriarchy, based on the heterosexual imperative, based on dominance of the white over those not white. These are infused into our media, into our very language, into the structure of our organizations. And this ultimately comes back into our sense of "I," the foundation of our self identity.

The human interpretations have thus been such that reinforced these views of the world, ensured their perpetuation, sought their expansion. Interpretations that informed the believer on not just matters of the Church and God, but of the world of Man. Whether it was how we shall be married and who should be married, but also how we shall govern ourselves.

And at some level, this is the way it should be. We all should try to align our lives with our spiritual beliefs, and believing as we do, seek to facilitate a society which is also aligned along the principles of that belief - not the specifics of how God or whatever spiritual manifestations - but those principles of what it means to be a decent and just person and society. How shall the poor be treated? The disabled? How should justice be manifested in our courts and so on.

Yet we should acknowledge our diversity, and listen to others who see how these things might be. Except the fundamentalist it seems cannot listen. To talk about institutional racism suddenly becomes not a matter which causes that spiritual doubt, but by doing so, causes an existential crisis. Their ability to sustain their sense of identity is predicated on their ability to resist other views. They hold onto their old time religion to avoid the disorientation that comes from having to not only re-examine, re-assess their spiritual views, but who they understand they are - as a human, as a man or a woman, as a citizen, as a neighbor.

Seeking the correct scriptural interpretation becomes a quest to reinforce that which has come to understand, not a quest of discovery.

Lot offered up his daughters

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:44:11 +0000

In reply to One question to be asked is

Lot offered up his daughters to the crowd to rape in lieu of his male guests - seems homosexuality was the issue (or being a proper host to defend your guest - similar to Arab ethics)

However, Lot's daughters were good sports, as they slept with their father shortly after escape to breed the Moab and Ammon tribes. Guess growing up in Sodom weakened their moral compass.

Regarding slavery, I don't think the Bible frowned on it unless it was His people that were slaves - that was a no-no, worth a parting of seas and a parting of ways.

One question to be asked is

rmrd0000 — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:33:25 +0000

In reply to At the risk of being naive,

One question to be asked is whether God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality or because God objected to rape and Sodom's treatment of the poor? Another question is whether the Bible ignored the issue of slavery, or whether the delivery of the Israelites and destruction of the Pharoah and his troops sent a message of how God regarded slavery? People who view the Bible on a superficial level often find that the Bible magically agrees with their views on issues like homosexuality and slavery.

The entry of more ethnic minorities and women into the field of Biblical scholarship has allowed different views to be expressed. Black liberation theology and Womanist studies shine new light on Biblical issues that most had considered already resolved. Fundamentalists are very resistant to challenges to their "old time religion".

At the risk of being naive,

Verified Atheist — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:08:42 +0000

In reply to These golfers win a

At the risk of being naîve, I'll invoke Hanlon's razor on this one: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance. Republicans have never had a shortage of ignorance, especially with respect to the Bible, even when they're citing it (or especially when they're citing it).

Disturbing doesn't even begin

Elusive Trope — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 06:56:19 +0000

In reply to These golfers win a

Disturbing doesn't even begin to describe this kind of sentiment...and that they claim to worship the one that said "blessed are the peace makers." Maybe they thought he said the cheese makers.

These golfers win a

Richard Day — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 06:39:29 +0000

In reply to Tebow, Santorum and the American Cultural Wars

These golfers win a tournament and praise JC for the trophy. How much more hubris can a man have? I mean the Good Lord actually cares about silly games in a world of famine and wars and child abuse and slavery and....

But I found this Biblical reference that was quite intriguing:

Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8." That's the slogan an email from O'Neal refers to, a phrase that's become popular in some circles on bumper stickers and other merchandise. The bible passage itself reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." The real controversy arises in the next verse of Psalm 109, however, which continues, "May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/mike-oneal-obama-death-prayer-psalm-109_n_1205059.html

And this coded death wish was made by none other than the Speaker of the Kansas House of Representatives for chrissakes.