dagblog - Comments for "Georgetown"

Thanks, Peter. Yes, manual

Ramona — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:26:29 +0000

Thanks, Peter. Yes, manual labor did pay pretty well at one time. Oddly enough, it was happening when the entire country was the most prosperous. Go figure.

The rich didn't suffer when living wages were in vogue. In fact, they made out pretty well. Of course, we made things then. Not everybody will go on to college; not everybody is cut out for college. But we don't do labor any favors by expecting them to work for less than those who chose a different career path. When unions demand good wages for their members it has as much to do with dignity as it does the cost of living.

Yes, Richard, and often those

Ramona — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:00:48 +0000

In reply to Thank you for a nice concise

Yes, Richard, and often those big bonuses can be paid only because worker benefits and retirements have been stripped.

I will never get over the cavalier attitudes failing companies take about employee retirements. When that employee signed on, the agreement, whether or not in writing, was that their loyalty would be repaid by insuring a good retirement at the end of many years' service. If the employee holds up his/her end of the bargain and stays with a company long enough to retire from there, it's the height of betrayal for the company to take away all or part of that retirement in order to give the failed CEOs and other Grand Poobahs huge, multimillion dollar bonuses.

Yet it happens all the time and there isn't a thing any long-term employee can do about it. Even the unions are helpless to make the bargain stick. Loyalty has to work both ways, but again corporate America, even with their new-found personhood, has no heart.

Reposted on FB. As to

Peter Schwartz — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 16:24:45 +0000

In reply to Georgetown

Reposted on FB.

As to Destor's comment above, I agree about the nature of the work, but it USED to pay pretty well for people who didn't want to go to college.

Working with your hands is pretty much all the things Destor said--unless you're a high-end cabinet maker or make teeth--but many people WANT to work with their hands.

Oh, I believe you, Ramona.

Michael Maiello — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:52:46 +0000

In reply to I understand what you're

Oh, I believe you, Ramona. People choose all kinds of ways to make a living. And I certainly see the appeal of actually making something with your time and effort. Organized labor had made great strides in humanizing factory work. Then the purveyors of global capitalism realized they could could dispense with the humanizing by outsourcing it instead. And now the workers in China are demanding their humanity. And the outsourcers are looking elsewhere there too... It's maddening.

Thank you for a nice concise

Richard Day — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:52:45 +0000

In reply to Georgetown

Thank you for a nice concise history; Perry and others keep referring to this SC corporation.

There are so many ways to cut workers' pay or benefits in any on-going business by selling that business but leveraging an enterprise following that sale and actually destroying pensions--there appears to have been no betting going on here.

Management takes bonuses through thick and thin!

I understand what you're

Ramona — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:44:45 +0000

In reply to Beautifully rendered, Ramona.

I understand what you're saying, Destor, but I've been around factory rats all my life (I imagine mill rats are pretty much the same) and, while at least half want to get the hell out and do something else, there's a fair number who love what they do and are miserable when they're not doing it.

When they're laid off or striking, they can't wait to get back. Sure, they're going to be bitching while they're there but they'd rather be there than to be tied down in an office. That would be sheer torture for most of the men I knew who worked in plants.

If you read any of the articles I linked to, you might see that for yourself in the comments from the mill workers. They always want to go back to work.

Even the copper miners in my mother's family fought to keep their jobs when the mines began to close. They didn't want to move away or take up another trade. They were miners. That's what they did.

Last summer we took the tour down into the Quincy Mine in Hancock, MI and saw what the working conditions were like. Constant damp cold, constant gloom, dangerous conditions--the only thing missing was the horrendous noise. I couldn't wait to get out of there--but fathers brought their sons in and their sons brought their sons in, and it was a point of pride to be able to say they were miners.

Factory workers do hard, dangerous work and should be well paid for it, with all reasonable protections in place. We should be making things in this country and we can't do it without workers. You may find it hard to believe, but that kind of work is a choice for many. It's not too much to ask that they be well-compensated and kept safe. That's what unions are supposed to do. God knows the owners have other things on their minds.

Beautifully rendered, Ramona.

Michael Maiello — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:13:30 +0000

In reply to Georgetown

Beautifully rendered, Ramona. But here's what worries me about it, from a political perspective. What kind of job do you think most Americans want for their children? White collar, or blue? Do you want your kid risking serious injury in a steel mill or oil refinery, or do you want them to work in an office. How much money do you want them to make?

These are purely rhetorical questions. I just imagine that the Reich argument (the financial economy vs. the real economy) which Oxy Mora also brought up, is not going to play all that well because, well, a lot of the "make stuff" work is incredibly unglamorous, is stressful, dangerous and doesn't pay much. The same can be said about a lot of white collar work, minus the danger. I get that.

But, you know... are Americans jealous of the Foxconn workers who make iPad components in China? I doubt it. I think most Americans pity them, when they think about it at all. Milltowns can be rough places. It's what Keroauc was driving away from. I just don't know that romanticizing them will be effective.