dagblog - Comments for "NYT: The iEconomy, for What it's Worth"

Excellent, illuminating NYT

acanuck — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 02:27:01 +0000

In reply to Tell it SJ, loud and clear.

Excellent, illuminating NYT piece, Sleepy. Thanks for the link. And Bruce, you're right that closing international gaps in labor rights and wages is one key to lowering the incentive to outsource and offshore. Hard to do, though, when folks who effectively control the domestic economy and government actually see huge wage gaps as a positive thing. Also hard to argue for the right to unionize abroad when state governments are aggressively rolling back such rights here.

And some labor leaders may grasp that raising workplace standards worldwide benefits everyone, including U.S. workers, but selling that idea to the rank-and-file is no slam-dunk. Nakedly protectionist measures resonate much better, despite being short-term and short-sighted. I've seen it in action.

Money now moves globally, instantly, and without restriction. Global financial regulations are toothless or non-existent, and North American workers have unwittingly ceded political power to their exploiters. Unless that miraculously changes (it won't), we have to wait for the exploited in the rest of the world to rise, take power themselves, and level the playing field. This will take a long, tumultous time.

During WWII, the Us could

rmrd0000 — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:17:36 +0000

In reply to NYT: The iEconomy, for What it's Worth

During WWII, the Us could convert factories for the war effort rapidly. That ability has been lost to overseas markets. Read the NYT article section regarding getting a scratch proof iPhone screen. The factories could gear up in very short order.

It will take years for the US to have high speed internet connections available universally, while Asian countries consider such access routine. How do we build factories that can respond rapidly to market needs? How do we decrease the built-in inertia for increasing internet connection speeds and converting to fuel sources other than fossil fuel? How do we do both without driving US workers to suicide?

Thanks, Aunt Sam. It's good

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 21:58:47 +0000

In reply to ?There?s no American plant

Thanks, Aunt Sam. It's good to still see some familiar names here.

Hey, DDay! Good to see you

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:44:17 +0000

In reply to Sleepin' ya have to post this

Hey, DDay! Good to see you again! And I'm lovin' me some DEAD! ;O)

You get no disagreement from

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:40:08 +0000

In reply to Fuck the management of these

You get no disagreement from me. Very well put, in fact. Romney, for example, takes offense at being called a Vulture Capitalist - but then goes on to defend Vulture Capitalism, fer chrissakes! Raiding pension funds. Closing factories after leveraging them out of business. Human wreckage and carnage in his wake as he sails on to make billions. "Hey! That's Business!" Wink. Nod.

I want their children to suffer, too.

"We gotta move

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:28:18 +0000

In reply to Tell it SJ, loud and clear.

"We gotta move Harley-Davidson out of Milwaukee to maintain our competitiveness."

"GE's gotta move off-shore so they can compete in the gobal marketplace."

We hear this kind of bullshit all the time. Every time I hear some economic analyst talk about "competitiveness" when discussing labor costs, the hair on the back of my neck stands straight up. It seems to be such a plausible argument - that of course business will always seek its way to the lowest cost of production. If labor can be purchased for pennies per hour in Myanmar, it would be ludicrous to expect GE to keep jobs here in the U.S.! Right?

It is indeed a credible argument but only if we accept the crazed notion of labor as a commodity and nothing more. And such nonsense inevitably leads to really whacked concepts like the need to give up health care, pension and other benefits and to also take periodic reductions in wages (no increases!) for the purpose of "creating a healthier economy." It kinda' begs the question: "Just whose economy is it, anyway?"

Thanks for the comments, Bruce! And keep the faith. Solidarity!

You put your finger on the

SleepinJeezus — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:54:18 +0000

In reply to Labor's well outside my area

You put your finger on the conundrum I face every time I try to argue for universal economic justice within this consumer-driven economic model.

By the rules of the game, these other economies need to be built the same way we built our own. If Ford Motor Co. wishes to expand its market, for example, it should in fact be encouraged to open factories in Mexico and/or China and/or Brazil and/or Jordan, etc. But they should then be compelled to sell the vehicles made in Mexico to the Mexicans; in China to the Chinese; and so on. I think the argument for such a "rule" is quite elegant and easily understood, refuted only by arguments that consider labor to be a commodity rather than real people who are "partners" in this economy worthy of sharing the common wealth. (See Qnonymous' remarks below.)

Where this all gets kinda messy is in confronting the reality that continued growth of a consumer economy is unsustainable, doubly-so if it is allowed to expand globally. The thought of "a Chevy in every garage" in China simply defies logic and comprehension. There simply aren't enough resources available to allow the continued and un-checked growth of consumerism in Western economies, let alone on a global scale. But that's a discussion for another time.

In the meantime, if we are all committed to this "consumer economy," then economic justice would insist that the present exploitation of foreign labor cannot be tolerated. Rather, these foreign workers need to be allowed to participate as fully and as beneficially in the growth of their own economy as we American workers experience(d?) in the growth of our own economic development. Anything else is neo-colonialism at best, or slavery and depredation at worst such as we see that compels workers in China to throw themselves to their death rather than suffer such injustice and pain and near-total loss of dignity.

Sleepin' ya have to post this

Richard Day — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:52:53 +0000

In reply to NYT: The iEconomy, for What it's Worth

Sleepin' ya have to post this stuff.

I mean I always look for Sleepin'! hahahaha

THERE'S SOMETHING HAPPENIN HERE!

You betchya!

But me

I expected it to happen

I knew he'd lost control

When he built a fire on 'in the news'

And shot it full of holes!

Okay, I am in agreement

Richard Day — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:15:01 +0000

In reply to Fuck the management of these

Okay, I am in agreement here.

Bet that is a surprise. hahaha

But leave the children's welfare out of it.

Except for the children's trusts and inheritance of course. hahaha

Those monies must be confiscated immediately.

Fuck the management of these

Qnonymous — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:03:45 +0000

In reply to NYT: The iEconomy, for What it's Worth

Fuck the management of these firms. Buncha big-mouthed, smart-talking pricks without sense, imagination or morality.

And since they'll only in turn pass on the blame to the markets, fuck the markets too.

I want these all rich whores outsourced. I want the lazy-ass managers unemployed. I want the traders broke-ass in the alleys. And I want the owners crying with their children in the streets.

Yup. I wanna see their kids cry. I want 'em hungry. I want 'em to hurt. I want 'em cold. Cold. Shivering, teeth-chattering. Cold.

What's that? I'm a miserable, cruel man to say that?

THEN TELL ME HOW IT'S MORAL FOR THESE BASTARDS TO SAY EXACTLY THIS SAME THING TO WORKING PEOPLE AND THEIR KIDS THESE PAST DECADES.

They're miserable lying shits. Yeah sure, labour's cheaper elsewhere, so fuck the workers. Well, take a close look and you'll see that management is sure as shit cheaper elsewhere too. So, let's sell these firms, and throw these assholes into the sea.

And the lawyers and the doctors with them. They're all easily imported now.

I know these pricks. I know what they do. I know their education. I know their skill-sets. What they are is pig-ignorant blow hards. About all they've done these past twenty years is sell shit out overseas... and lobby politicians... look to create monopoly barriers around what they do... sniff after inside info... and look for ways to make a quick, unproductive kill.

I want their children to suffer.