dagblog - Comments for "A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US"

Thanks for the link. I spent

rmrd0000 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 05:24:43 +0000

Thanks for the link. I spent the weekend in San Francisco at a Zinfandel festival, so Keeping up with the NYT was not at the top of my list then. I'll certainly read the article.

In case you hadn't heard

artappraiser — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 04:47:16 +0000

In reply to For centuries, black history

In case you hadn't heard about it, there's a new major exhibition in DC on Jefferson's relationship with his slaves, his slaves' lives and the lives of their descendants, to be expanded to Monticello itself next month, encompassing the most recent research.

The New York Times gave this review of it a major amount of space (comes to 7 pages on the website):

Exhibition Review

Life, Liberty and the Fact of Slavery by Edward Rothstein, Jan 27/28, 2011

Excerpt:

[....]We look back now, shocked at the cognitive and moral perversity. And that is one reason why a prevalent reaction has been to assert that the champions of those revolutionary ideals were hypocrites, including 12 of the first 18 American presidents, who were slave owners.

But that too-familiar judgment brings us to the most challenging example of all: Thomas Jefferson.

And two new exhibitions come to a far more subtle and illuminating assessment of the past. Jefferson’s relationship to slavery is the subject of an important exhibition opening on Friday at the National Museum of American History here, “Slavery at Jefferson’s Monticello: Paradox of Liberty.” It was created by the nascent National Museum of African American History and Culture in conjunction with the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, which runs Jefferson’s extraordinary plantation, Monticello, as a historical home and museum in Charlottesville, Va.

The Washington exhibition will have a permanent counterpart opening next month at Monticello itself, where Jefferson, the writer of the Declaration of Independence, kept as many as 130 slaves. Expanding the already significant examination of slavery at the estate, “Landscape of Slavery: Mulberry Row at Monticello,” will consist of outdoor displays mounted alongside sites of labor uncovered through archeological digs.

Such research has been going on for two generations, disclosing the material lives of both hired and enslaved workers: their demolished dwellings and work houses are revealed through Jefferson’s notes, stone foundations, kitchen utensils, shattered pottery, belt buckles and other artifacts. Monticello’s outdoor exhibition is also part of a major transformation over the past two generations; once a sacral architectural monument to Jefferson’s genius, Monticello has evolved into a more complex reflection of the man and the 5,000-acre plantation that he owned.

These projects are difficult and ambitious, not just for Monticello but also for the African-American museum, which is scheduled to open in 2015. Lonnie G. Bunch III, the museum’s director, emphasized in a conversation that the Washington show is part of the institution’s attempt to explore how slavery might ultimately be presented [....]

For centuries, black history

rmrd0000 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:37:25 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

For centuries, black history in the United States was largely ignored. John Hope Franklin, among others, helped make black history a respected field of study. Given a lack of detailed research and interest only among blacks, it is not surprising that stories like Cleopatra were taken seriously. It should be noted that the country also took to heart the story that George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and could not lie to his father about the deed. People can be duped.

Many historians scoffed at the idea that Thomas Jefferson could have ~~raped~~ had a sexual relationship with his wife's half-sister, Sally Hemings. Annette Gordon-Reed addressed the relationship in her book "Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings an American Controversy. Gordon-Reed examined the story of the Hemings , who were freed after Jefferson's death in "The Heminges of Monticello". Once DNA tests linking the paternal line of the Heminges to Thomas Jefferson, many historians who denied the possibility of a relationship now told a tale of a beautiful love story about Thomas Jefferson's love affair with Sally Hemings. The ability of black historians to take a different look at oft told tales reinvigorates the field of history.

There are thousands of stories yet to be told by black historians about the actions and contributions of black Americans, white Americans, etc. Fabricated stories like Cleopatra are not needed.

Alexander the Great conquered

Richard Day — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:52:25 +0000

In reply to If you're interested in

Alexander the Great conquered Egypt around 330 BC and installed a monarchy that existed up to the time that Rome per JC conquered Egypt.

Alexander and his fellow Greeks were white.

I do not understand the debate. A lot of monarchies remained inbred.

If you're interested in

artappraiser — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:49:53 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

If you're interested in reading further on the whole "Cleopatra" thingie, wikipedia has a pretty good article tracing the history of how history was affected on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy

Myself, before I even got into the study of that stuff, I didn't understand why African Americans wanted to claim her specifically so badly. It certainly made sense to want to think of ancient Egypt as part of one's heritage, but Cleopatra, not so much. Not 'zactly the finest role model. It was like falling prey to Hollywood images of her rather than even reading something like Shakespeare's version of the story.

China invaded Vietnam after

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:04:41 +0000

In reply to I can only respond to a

China invaded Vietnam after Vietnam invaded Cambodia to stop Pol Pot's blood-letting. (actually, China already had Pol Pot shit disturbing in South Vietnam).

China wasn't able to draw Vietnam in to actually cause damage, so instead destroyed a lot of land and equipment on the way out.

China wanted into Vietnam during the Vietnam War, but afterwards just wanted to be controlling figure. And they pretty well made sure the Vietnamese will continue to hate them. "Better 10 more years of the French than 1000 years of the Chinese" I believe Ho said.

1) Lincoln's Birthday used to

PeraclesPlease — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:54:50 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

1) Lincoln's Birthday used to be a holiday until merged with Washington's for President's Day to make way for MLK.

2) The "Domino Theory" was a fact.

a) The Communists took North Korea as part of WWII partition, and then in 1950 invaded South Korea with China's help, taking everything except the tiny foothold at Pusan before the allies fought back to the partition.

b) There was a Communist insurgency in Malaya from 1948 to 1960.

c) The Communists in Burma started a rebellion that lasted for 8 years from 1948. The "Burmese Way to Socialism" took over with a coup in 1962 lasting until 1974 (along with a further Communist China attack in 1968)

d) The Communists in Indonesia started in 1920, had their first revolte in 1926, and formed part of Sukarno's government, over 2 million strong - well entrenched until Suharto purged the Communists starting in 1965.

e) Deng Xiao Peng occupied both Xinjiang and Tibet during the 1950's, and attacked India in the Sino-Indian War of 1962.

f) The Communists in Laos were recruited in the thirties, but didn't really get going until 1950. Their dependence on Vietnamese made them much less respected, including the Ho Chi Minh trail cutting into Laos in the late fifties and the Vietnamese support for the Pathet Lao. The Vietnamese took over fighting against the US, and overall, the Lao Communists have been subservient to the Vietnamese ever since.

Etc., etc. (cambodia, vietnam,

thirty-five years later, the

Elusive Trope — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:41:09 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

thirty-five years later, the lie stands as a glaring example of how nations manufacture lies to justify their conduct.

I don't disagree that has the US won the Vietnam war, American kids would learning about how the US stopped the spread of communism in SE Asia.

But I don't think the domino theory was a manufactured lie. I think they really believed it. And it was after all a theory.

The theory had been around a long time - In 1954 Eisenhower said

Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.

There is a difference between misinterpreting the evidence or not fully understanding the dynamics of a situation and setting out to manufacture a lie, such as developing a theory one knows is a falsehood, in order to achieve some goal. There may have been goals that made those in government more susceptible to convincing themselves that this or that theory was the truth . In the matter of geo-politics, the likelihood more mistakes then correct predictions about how future events is greater.

I can only respond to a

Richard Day — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:22:17 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

I can only respond to a couple points--you make so many of them!

On Vietnam--the neocons and most repubs think that that war had something to do with the death knell for communism. I get so angry, I have to mute the tv or quickly hit another tab to get onto another subject.

China invaded that damn country right after we left and in less than a year, China fled the scene. The Chinese wanted no part of it! So much for the threat of monolithic communism.

On another point, I am fascinated by the progress of our media over the last 5 decades. I mean I may be watching some silly drama on Cable but the head of the rich law firm is played by a Black Woman. Or in another drama the billionaire capitalist is a Black Man.

There are Black folks and American Indians and Asians and Hispanics and just about any racial group you can imagine, represented on stage and screen and tv.

And when you think about the diversity of this nation compared to countries like the UK (92% white) you can start to grasp the monumental task that this country has had to face and continues to face.

When one examines reality one might note the differences in the racial make-ups in our prisons or the real ethnic variables involved in our unemployment numbers...it is depressing.

But our propaganda system (stage, screen, tv, radio, newspapers) is doing a pretty fine job compared to the times I was growing up.

Even FOX hires people from different racial groups to spew out their racially tinged crap--ironic is it not?

MLK Jr's Holiday was and is of such importance. It is hard to imagine that Strom Thurmond actually voted for it!

See, you always get me thinking and I can't stop writing. ha

Actually she was Irish: Clee

Donal — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:34:26 +0000

In reply to A MESSAGE TO BLACK AMERICA: OUR HISTORY LIES BEFORE US

Actually she was Irish: Clee O'Patra.