dagblog - Comments for "Taking the Republican Candidates to Task: (1) on Taxes"

Good comments, Beetle. I

Oxy Mora — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:06:45 +0000

Good comments, Beetle. I think the generational spree and belief, for example, that house prices never go down was pretty common between Americans and Europeans.

And much of the free wheeling banking activities were similar. The German banks, for instance, and their love for the debt of Greece.

I have always felt that Bush & Co. actually wanted to put the economy and deficit in such a bad way that it would support the conclusion that there was no way out except to cut social programs. Cutting social programs is what Republicans do. They've wanted to get rid of Social Security since 1940. If Obama is re-elected they will miss the best chance they've had in a generation to cut these programs.

What bugs me about all of this is that small changes in GDP growth, half or full point, going forward very materially and dramatically improves the deficit---and of course they seldom talk about how to achieve larger than expected GDP.

Okay ... this has been

Beetlejuice — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:23:38 +0000

In reply to Taking the Republican Candidates to Task: (1) on Taxes

Okay ... this has been buggin' me and I have to say it.

What does the EU monetary crisis (PIIGS) and the US deficit have in common?

They're the same thing, but each is wrapped differently.

Point 1

Entrance into the EU was controlled by the German desire to keep inflation in check ... something about wheelbarrows of marks needed to buy a loaf of bread back before Hitler came to power thingy that haunts them to this very day. Anyway, membership into the EU meant each country wishing to become a member had to get their financial house in order ... keeping sovereign economy in check to minimize inflation. Once they accomplished that financial feat, they were ushered into the new realm of the EU which meant interest rates literally dropped from approximately 12% to around 4%. This was equivalent to letting a bunch of pre-schoolers loose in a candy store without any adult supervision. People began to make consumer purchases they would have avoided before they entered the EU. The PIIGS, both the public and governments, felt their new found wealth was free money with no strings attached. Now the piper is here and expects his due.

Point 2

Back when Bu$h and the GOP controlled both the White House and both House and Senate in Congress the perils of economic disaster were sown. First, Clinton handed Bu$h a budget deficit what was not only in the process of being paid off, there was an ample surplus too boot. Of course we all know Bu$h used the money intended to finish off the deficit and the surplus for his tax cuts ... that's my understanding of what took place which probably needs a few facts rearranged to be factually correct. Also, there was the medicare prescription drug program and both Iraq and Afgan wars ... all major drains on the revenue base.

During the 6 years of GOP control over the economy, Cheney stated their take on the economy the best ... deficits don't matter. So during that time period, all of the major legislation mentioned above was passed with a majority of GOP votes as well as Democrats without the necessary funding to support them. So the Executive Branch became the provider of funds for the unfunded legislation passed by Congress. Thus the rise in the national debt. All while tax revenues were being decreased all across the board. Finally, in 2008 the bottom fell out and the shit hit the fan.

What the US and the PIIGS have in common is the perception of what money is. In the case of the PIIGS, it was manna from heaven ... people could "afford" to do the things they always wanted to do because money was so cheap. But they never thought that eventually, they would have to pay it all back with interest due. In the case of the US GOP controlled Congress, it was a method by which money could be borrowed to satisfy the immediate needs and delay the need to consider how to pay at a later date. In the case of both the PIIGS and the US Congress the bill has been presented and everyone is horrified. Especially when they realize the only method they have at their disposal is to increase revenues at a time when such a ploy will surely break the financial backs of the public they serve.

Note too, the PIIGS are flirting at withdrawing from the EU which might topple the Union and take everyone down to the same level ... ruining countries that are holding their own within the requirements of the EU charter. The GOPer's in both House and Senate are maneuvering to use social programs as the only means by which the US can pull itself out of the quicksand they steered the economy into.

Both the PIIGS and GOPers are being disingenuous but there's no mechanism to force them to act civil.

Yes you did, I'm a monster.

Oxy Mora — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:43:13 +0000

In reply to Talkin' about creating a

Yes you did, I'm a monster. But I never expected him to come back on thread the way he did.

Talkin' about creating a

MrSmith1 — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:43:52 +0000

In reply to No harm done, Evritt. Any

Talkin' about creating a monster ... I've unleashed Oxy's inner haiku writer. LOL

(nicely done, Oxy!)

And Coatesd, Thanks for this fine piece of work!

And it?s a beaut too! I?m

Evritt McGill — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:21:17 +0000

In reply to No harm done, Evritt. Any

And it’s a beaut too! I’m keepin it ;). Take care.

No harm done, Evritt. Any

Oxy Mora — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:15:19 +0000

In reply to That was kind of mean and not

No harm done, Evritt. Any excuse for a haiku. Later.

That was kind of mean and not

Evritt McGill — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:04:13 +0000

In reply to Stopped to take a piss. Hey

That was kind of mean and not very relevant wasn't it? Jeez, a guy ends up working all weekend, up at 2am this morning for work and takes it out of people just minding their own business and expressing their agreement with an author. I can’t even believe I wrote it. I read the article and was just WAY too tired to take the time it would require for an appropriate point for point response so I just threw a little mean humor at it and ran away. LOL (sigh), sorry about that. I’ll wait till I’m rested and try a little harder next time

Stopped to take a piss. Hey

Oxy Mora — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:00:42 +0000

In reply to Hey morons...your bus is

Stopped to take a piss.

Hey morons, your bus just left,

er, when's the next one?

Hey morons...your bus is

Evritt McGill — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:27:43 +0000

In reply to Taking the Republican Candidates to Task: (1) on Taxes

Hey morons...your bus is leaving.

Great comments, NCD. I also

Oxy Mora — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:03:57 +0000

In reply to They cheered on the War

Great comments, NCD. I also enjoyed the Krugman article. I really do think it is sinking in with the "establishment" that they have created a monster.