dagblog - Comments for "When Being Black is All it Is"

Oh right - you're just

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:26:57 +0000

Oh right - you're just sitting back restrained, not speculating at all.... the grownup in the room....

If Zimmerman was treated by the EMT unit then there should be a report in the EMT logs for this incident to support the statements by the responding officers. But I can only assume that those logs are now also under seal for the grand jury investigation.
....
So there should be some type of report from a hospital source...

Signed: OldenGoldenDecoy

Have a nice day, Miss Marple

Peracles...Wow...No

oldenGoldenDecoy — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:13:03 +0000

In reply to Oh great, pull out spelling

Peracles...Wow...No kidding?

As you pointed out in your own words...

"I don't know the truth." ...and... "We really aren't sure out here in internet land."

That's for damn sure. So you just keep going ahead playing the telephone game (fourth game on the list there) just like we're all in the 3rd. grade and keep assuming, speculating and spreading anecdotal information that has no relevent probative value, nor anything whatsoever to do with the actual events or facts of the incident.

See: Relevancy & Probative Value (pdf)

Enjoy your day there Sherlock.

~OGD~

Joe Oliver mentioned it in

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:25:40 +0000

In reply to Was he treated at the scene?

Joe Oliver mentioned it in the interview. I don't know if verified anywhere else.

Yes, I was thinking about my

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:14:21 +0000

In reply to I know I was being a little

Yes, I was thinking about my kid's Facebook page as well.

Martin's fish tattoo was fairly large, but I'll take your word for it as "more modest". I think the bigger issue is that I didn't see white kids involved in gangs, or the wannabe gangsta style, which is a source of trouble for black kids and some Hispanics.

Which I think should make a bigger point - all of us are influenced by our environment, and do the stupid things dictated by those environments, whether it's hood-style or law-and-order overreach, conservative vs. liberal idiocy, etc.

"even if there were

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:02:41 +0000

In reply to Sorry Peracles, even if there

"even if there were burglaries in the neighborhood, Mr. Zimmerman had no right to shoot and kill the young Mr. Martin. Since when does burglarizing anything bring the death penalty?" Gee, I wish I'd said that. Oh wait, I did:

Which doesn't say he was criminal or much different from other 17-year-olds or guilty of anything.

And even if he were casing houses and started a fight, doesn't mean death by shooting is the just reward.

Regarding Zimmerman, he wasn't "self-appointed": "Zimmerman was chosen as a neighborhood watch coordinator by his neighbors, according to Wendy Dorival, who organizes Neighborhood Watch for the Sanford Police Department.^[42] The February 2012 Homeowner association newsletter requested that crime victims "call our captain, George Zimmerman" after calling the police.^[8]"

Regarding "you can't just shoot someone" because of a tattoo or whatever, there's no evidence that Zimmerman just shot Martin, vs. it being the result of an argument or Martin jumping Zimmerman. There's no indication of Zimmerman waving a gun in the past.

Yes, some Neighborhood Watch people carry guns. Zimmerman wasn't technically on duty, as he was coming home from the store and saw someone he thought looked suspicious, and I don't know if he normally carried a gun when on watch.

There are records of break-ins in the area where you can read descriptions of the setting. There seems to be no "paranoia" about black men - there were a number of black men involved in previous break-ins.

"For some reason you believe everything good about Zimmerman, up to the uncorroborated statements that Zimmerman was hurt," - no, you're putting words into my mouth/fingers as I wrote specifically that there was no sign of wounds in his police station video earlier.

"Why aren't you as skeptical about Mr. Oliver's statements?" - uh gee, I wrote that I don't get Oliver's statement that Zimmerman almost lost his life. As Oliver hadn't seen Zimmerman, it's impossible for him to attest to physical wounds.

"It feels like you've bought the right wing picture painted of the young Mr. Martin, that he was a thug, with tattoos and he was suspended from schoo; for weed!"- I specifically never mentioned weed, as it's irrelevant. I mentioned the stolen jewelry in his backpack, which may be germane to a discussion about break-ins, though doesn't say he was up to anything that night. I did not say he was a "thug", and I mentioned the tattoo and gold-capped teeth as a contrast to the lovable picture of him as a 13-year-old. The Tweet referring to Martin taking a swing at a bus driver *WOULD* directly support the possibility of Martin attacking Zimmerman, but doesn't confirm it.

"The right wing is doing to Martin, exactly what people used to do to rape victims, you know, why did she wear that dress or go to that bar" - nonsense - there's a dispute which guy attacked the other, whether Martin started off walking home peacefully or not. (just because a Neighborhood Watch guy asks you what you're doing doesn't give you a right to hit, just like just being unkwnown doesn't invite a beating or a shooting). If Martin were alive, the police would be asking his version, no? The point was, he was unknown and suspicious in that neighborhood that had a number of burglaries and thefts. What do you think Neighborhood Watch is supposed to do? Do you approve of calling 911, or do you think an unknown 6'3" person walking the streets in the evening should just be ignored?

Do you know whether Trayvon Martin was just just walking home or whether he was looking around for trouble? Do you have a video of that walk home? Can you see inside his heart?

Was he treated at the scene?

tmccarthy0 — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:29:09 +0000

In reply to tmac, I agree with all you

Was he treated at the scene? I had not read that anywhere, but yes I would like to see that too.

I know I was being a little

Michael Maiello — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:19:20 +0000

In reply to Fine, simply that Trayvon was

I know I was being a little flip. I guess what I mean is, I'm glad there was no twitter and Facebook around when I was a 17 year old boy, full of conflicting passions like all boys are.

I also think it's unfair that when a white guy like me gets a bunch of tattoos it barely signifies anything to anyone (maybe "he's a hipster," or maybe "he's alternative" or maybe "he's edgy" or maybe "he's a trend follower") but when a black kid gets tattoos far more modest than mine it suggests he's not cute and is potentially dangerous.

I know you're not saying that anyone deserves to be shot, Peracles. I think he deserves the same considerations that I get.

tmac, I agree with all you

Aunt Sam — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:18:13 +0000

In reply to Sorry Peracles, even if there

tmac, I agree with all you stated, except that the video of Zimmerman with police was filmed after he was tended to by the EMT's. What I want to see are the pics taken at scene, because there is always supposed to be visual documentation (videos, still pictures) recorded of any with injuries.

Note: The video does show a police officer 'brushing' something off of Zimmerman's jacket and walking around him, where there is a small welt on back of his head. But, nothing on his person was in sync with one who had been 'brutally beaten'.

Sorry Peracles, even if there

tmccarthy0 — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:09:18 +0000

In reply to Fine, simply that Trayvon was

Sorry Peracles, even if there were burglaries in the neighborhood, Mr. Zimmerman had no right to shoot and kill the young Mr. Martin. Since when does burglarizing anything bring the death penalty? Oh wait and of course the young Mr. Martin didn't steal anything.

Mr. Martin was a 17 year old kid, who did nothing wrong. And Mr. Zimmerman, who wasn't a member of a standard Neighborhood Watch, but a self appointed neighborhood watchman, who carried a gun, who seemed to have a penchant for reporting black men in his neighborhood shot a kid for no reason. You can't just shoot someone cause they have a tattoo or gold teeth, (although I seriously doubt Zimmerman knew any of this). Neighborhood watch people aren't supposed to carry guns, and they don't sentence anyone to death over his paranoia that the black men are coming to steal stuff from the neighborhood. And then of course the fact that Mr. Martin didn't steal anything from anyone.

For some reason you believe everything good about Zimmerman, up to the uncorroborated statements that Zimmerman was hurt, well I've seen the recording of Zimmerman from that evening as they escorted him into the police station and there was no blood on Zimmerman, no cut on his head, and cops do not treat injuries, no they always let the EMT's do that. Yet you've bought it hook line and sinker that Zimmerman was hurt, based on what evidence, that Oliver guy, who hasn't seen Zimmerman since before incident? Why aren't you as skeptical about Mr. Oliver's statements? He admits he didn't see Zimmerman that evening or even recently.

It feels like you've bought the right wing picture painted of the young Mr. Martin, that he was a thug, with tattoos and he was suspended from schoo; for weed! OH NOES. But none of that has any relation to the crime, it is just an attempt to sully the name of the young Mr. Martin to justify his murder. Mr. Zimmerman's over the top reaction to a young man being in his neighborhood, who he didn't believe belonged there resulted in the young mans death. The 9-11 call from Zimmerman proves exactly what I just wrote. Zimmerman didn't see the young Mr. Martin doing anything but walking. The right wing is doing to Martin, exactly what people used to do to rape victims, you know, why did she wear that dress or go to that bar why did she say hi to that man? Why did she drink that drink he bought her, etc and so on.

Mr. Martin did nothing wrong, he was just walking back to the house where he was staying that evening, no one deserves to die for that, no one, even if he had tattoo's, a grill and some weed.

Fine, simply that Trayvon was

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:45:58 +0000

In reply to However you spell it, I have

Fine, simply that Trayvon was no longer the cute kid of 13 we saw in first pictures.

Which doesn't say he was criminal or much different from other 17-year-olds or guilty of anything.

And even if he were casing houses and started a fight, doesn't mean death by shooting is the just reward.

See, we can hold multiple visions in our heads at one time, rather than a simple "A is cute victim/B is ugly villain" formulation.