dagblog - Comments for "Clothes Make the Victim"

Mich. teacher says she was

Donal — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:09:30 +0000

Mich. teacher says she was fired over Trayvon fund drive: 'I don't think I did anything wrong'

According to the SPLC, a national civil rights group, Harris' eighth-grade journalism students asked her about the death of Martin ....

Harris gave the students an editorial-writing assignment on the shooting. But the students wanted to raise money for Martin's family and asked the school's administrators if they could each pay $1 to wear hoodies instead of school uniforms for a day, the group said. It said the school regularly has fundraisers in which students are allowed to "dress down."

The 26-year-old English teacher said she approached school administrators "through the chain of command" but that Superintendent Jacqueline Cassell said the project could not go forward. Harris said she was in the process of explaining this decision to the students when she was called for a meeting with Cassell.

The superintendent suspended Harris for encouraging the students and then fired her after she showed up at the school to drop off prizes for students when she had been told to stay away, the SPLC said.

I liked the photos of Ozzie

PeraclesPlease — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:12:11 +0000

In reply to It is also true that fashion

I liked the photos of Ozzie Osbourne at home with Mr. and Mrs. Satan. They seemed like such a happy family, sitting down to Sabbath dinner together.

It is also true that fashion

artappraiser — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:42:17 +0000

In reply to "you can't make a fashion

It is also true that fashion tribes don't necessarily always have to be waging culture wars:

Crosby" of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young posed with his father Floyd, an Oscar-winning cinematographer, in the Ojai, Calif., home Floyd shared with his second wife in 1970. "In the last few years we've become good friends," David told LIFE. "What I like best about him is that he seems to feel no need for me to be like him, so we're not offended by each other's differences. Like he knows I get high. He doesn't do it and he doesn't approve of it, but he doesn't inflict his values on me."

Frank Zappa in his eclectic Los Angeles home with his cat, his dad Francis, and his mom Rosemarie in 1970 [....]

"My father has ambitions to be an actor," Frank told LIFE. "He secretly wants to be on TV." His mom, meanwhile, thought Frank's career was fine and dandy, but envied something else about him. "The thing that makes me mad about Frank," she said, "is that his hair is curlier than mine — and blacker."

"you can't make a fashion

jollyroger — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:06:40 +0000

In reply to Chairman Mao had a excellent

"you can't make a fashion revolution without breaking legs..." (or something like that...)

Chairman Mao had a excellent

artappraiser — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:01:53 +0000

In reply to Clothes Make the Victim

Chairman Mao had a excellent solution to this whole problem, ya know!

Cartoon source:

"Politics of Dress under Mao" @ Society for Anglo-Chinese Understanding

Understand your intent, but

rmrd0000 — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:31:15 +0000

In reply to Geraldo is basically taking

Understand your intent, but here is what Camille Cosby had to say about the death of her son

http://www.cultural-expressions.com/thesis/cosby.htm

I don't think the visceral

artappraiser — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:28:20 +0000

In reply to Geraldo is basically taking

I don't think the visceral reactions you are talking about are about control but about tribalism. Donal's post is trying to point out how people often chose their clothes to send a message. And that message is often (but not always) about tribe association. Some people get irritated when they see someone protest that they want to be part of the tribe but want to wear the colors of a different or opposing tribe. It's more like: geez doncha know this tribe finds that message offensive? What do you expect if you bear opposing colors?

These days, here's one example--if you want to fit in with techie world, don't dare come calling wearing a suit and tie!

I should say that for parents, yes, you are right that it's about control, they want to teach their kids what messages the clothes choice send in their culture. The eternal ironic problem with that is that the parents often don't understand the kids subculture. But fo other people expressing irritation, it's just about tribe and symbols and communication.

I just think that the hoodie does not qualify as much of a potent message sender, pretty weak stuff to claim it does. It's too ubiquitous.

On the other hand the Rep. Bobby Rush story of the other day made me realize that one part of its wear still does have a relatively strong iconography--if you pull the hood up! If you pull the hood up and it's not raining or cold, that carries a message in our culture of someone trying to hide their face from recognition by cameras or witnesses..

Geraldo is basically taking

Michael Maiello — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:25:39 +0000

In reply to Clothes Make the Victim

Geraldo is basically taking the, "If you dress like a gangsta, don't be surprised if you're treated like one," line. Though, it only seems to apply to minorities. Still, it's nothing more than old people complaining, "why can't the kids can't dress normal these days?"

There's always going to be a segment of society that thinks women should wear dresses, men should wear collared shirts and dockers, and nobody should have tattoos or piercings, jeweled teeth or saggy pants.

If you read some of the comments on a site like BusinessInsider you'll see this sentiment expressed all of the time. People get actively angry about other people not dressing, thinking or acting normally. Some of them are kind enough to preface such thoughts with, "nobody deserves to be shot, but..." even as they argue that all of this self expression tends to cause dangerous misunderstandings.

It is, largely, about control. Geraldo defended his comment as simple advice to parents about what they should let their kids wear. In that sense he's on the same side as a Bill Cosby.

Geraldo probably had too many

artappraiser — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 03:31:30 +0000

In reply to Clothes Make the Victim

Geraldo probably had too many stories told to him when he was a kid about the Zoot Suit Riots.

I would argue that hoodies are just not the same thing, they do not carry the the same kind of potent countercultural message that say, Zoot Suits, or even miniskirts or biker jackets once did.

Just because they use the same root word of 'hood, it does not mean they represent the 'hood, but just that they have a hood. It's a coincidence. Grannies favor fleece ones, the US Marine Corps sells them, and probably every damn American sports team, professional and amateur, probably does too.

About the only reasonable side to the argument is that they can be seen to some as referencing tough guys like Rocky Balboa if worn by a large male. So are those who are suggesting not wearing them saying males of color should not look like are in good shape and able to defend themselves in order to not to draw would be attackers? Dress more fem so you don't get challenged? Is that the advice? Ask gay men about how that has worked out for them in the past.

I do think one can make a strong argument that pants hanging down past your butt crack still do carry a 'hood message (as people like Bill Cosby have,) but hoodies really don't, they've just got too many other associations, including many "all American" ones.

I don't think that Sean Bell

rmrd0000 — Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:40:15 +0000

In reply to Clothes Make the Victim

I don't think that Sean Bell or Diallo were wearing hoodies. The concept seems to be equal to the nonsensical; "Look at how short her dress was. She was asking for it!"

Nonsense is nonsense.