dagblog - Comments for "The End Of Black on Black Crime"

From the first link, a 2011

Donal — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:52:48 +0000

From the first link, a 2011 paper by two Columbia economists:

In rural areas, there is no racial disparity in murder. ...

Like murders, aggravated assaults are violent attacks; by definition, the assailants use weapons or the victims sustain serious injuries, or both. Like murders, they are primarily intraracial (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2009, table 42). A subculture of violence theory would predict that the racial disparity in aggravated assault should resemble the racial disparity in murder. But it does not. In the 2004 National Criminal Victimization Survey blacks were only about 1.7 times as likely as whites to [be] aggravated assault victims. Nor is the racial disparity greatest among the demographic groups among whom aggravated assault is most prevalent. Indeed, among 20-24 year old men, whites were more likely than blacks to be aggravated assault victims in both 2003 and 2004 (table 10). Aggravated assault was over 65 times as common as murder in 2004. Blacks, especially young men, are not a lot more violent than whites.

I didn't mean to imply that

artappraiser — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:47:00 +0000

In reply to Yeah, let's just stop

I didn't mean to imply that could happen at this point in our history, silly, I meant to imply that that's what it would really require, unless you're going to make crime stats into state secrets. Or, as I said, fewer poor neighborhoods stay racially segregated (I think that might have a more realistic chance of happening sooner than people think, as real estate and jobs situation change, but not like tomorrow.)

It is going to happen eventually, though, as mixed race citizens become more and more common. There's only so many categories you can make until it defeats the purpose. (What is the purpose anyways?)

Unless we all end up having bar codes with our DNA inscribed, that is.

So poverty IS an issue?

rmrd0000 — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:38:06 +0000

In reply to Please - a link, a statistic,

So poverty IS an issue?

Please - a link, a statistic,

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:53:11 +0000

In reply to When you actually look at the

Please - a link, a statistic, something? I guess you kinda did, but 53% poverty black to 44% poverty Hispanic isn't significant. However, only 18% of poor blacks in married households vs. over 50% in Hispanic homes is likely a big deal - which is why poor Hispanic households have 50% greater wealth than poor black households.

One reason for dropping the

rmrd0000 — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:44:17 +0000

In reply to Somehow I don't think you're

One reason for dropping the term is that it gives an easy diversionary term to people like O'Reilly to explain why we shouldn't focus on a black death not caused by another Black. Absent the term, he would gave to say out loud words to the effect that Trayvon's death is an unimportant anomaly since he didn't die at the hands of a Black male.

I realize that this is just a thought experiment rather than anything that will really take legs. However, many Blacks are fed up with the disrespect that comes from some in law enforcement.

When you actually look at the

rmrd0000 — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:09:18 +0000

In reply to The End Of Black on Black Crime

When you actually look at the income gap between Latino and Black famines described as poor, A higher percentage of Black are poorer than poverty stricken Latinos. Poverty does remain a high correlate with crime. You just have to ask how poor are they?

I found a few links to

Donal — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:08:26 +0000

In reply to The End Of Black on Black Crime

I found a few links to studies that try to put the differential in murder rates in context:

Homicide in Black and White PDF

We argue here that this extraordinary concentration of homicides in the black community cannot be fully understood without recognizing that murder is a crime for which there is a powerful preemptive motive: people sometimes kill simply to avoid being killed. This is the case in war, and is also the case in some urban war zones. Ordinary people in ordinary circumstances have little or nothing to gain from killing other people, and high murder rates can generally be sustained only if some people kill for self-protection.

Marvin Wolfgang’s Subculture of Violence Theory

Dr. Marvin Wolfgang’s black subculture of violence theory has been the most cited explanation of violence among African-Americans in criminological literature. It has also been among the most controversial.

Black Males and Violence PDF

White, Black, and Latino Homicide Rates: Why the Difference. PDF

I scanned a lot of this and it looks more worthwhile than simply throwing out a statistic like it proves something.

We throw money at the problem

rmrd0000 — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:52:58 +0000

In reply to Don't conflate excuse with

We throw money at the problem with incarceration. Incarceration may be more expensive than a college education. Is that where we should place our efforts? Shouldn't we look to other solutions.?

An argument could be made that because we racialize crime, it gets less attention. How many in-depth stories do we see that humanizes the victims of "Black on Black" crime? Virtually zero. Black-on-black labeling has changed nothing. We are still pretending that nothing is happening, except hassling law-abiding Blacks.

If you spend the money on school to prison, you are going to remain annoyed about how money is being spent. There are dynamics in schools that lead to Black students receiving suspensions for incidents that others get lesser forms of punishment. Stop and Frisk creates more animosity than criminal captures.

The money is going to be spent either way. Incarcerated criminals create a new generation of incarcerated criminals.

What benefits have come from Black-on-Black crime labeling?

Give me a break - poverty

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:38:27 +0000

In reply to Can you break down crime

Give me a break - poverty level is analyzed, effect of poverty on crime rates is analyzed, studies are done.

Enough, this has gotten juvenile.

There's nothing ad hoc about

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:29:29 +0000

In reply to What's ad hoc about

There's nothing ad hoc about income level (assuming it's not $26k vs. $25K) - it just doesn't explain that much. You switch from black ethnicity to Hispanic, with the same income level, and the homicide rate goes down.

So what are you going to do? Ipso facto, handwaving Q.E.D., let's forget about it and go have a beer?