dagblog - Comments for "When Corporations Renounce Citizenship..."

And are we going to send

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 22 May 2012 16:00:46 +0000

In reply to "... that you're happy to eat

And are we going to send Saverin an apology now that Facebook's IPO wasn't as high as predicted? Maybe the US government should cover the difference, since we were sure he was hiding future money from us. Fair is fair, no?

Plus you can't marry

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 22 May 2012 15:16:56 +0000

In reply to First off, I love Johnny

Plus you can't marry Cambodian brides in cash-for-greencard deals, a real goldrush if you do it right. Every time we invade a country, there seems to be more girls girls girls...

"... that you're happy to eat

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 22 May 2012 15:13:53 +0000

In reply to Estimates are he would have

"... that you're happy to eat breakfast like Grover Norquist." I don't eat breakfast like Grover - I use chopsticks, eat grubs and seaweed, wash it down with maotai, and eat half a ginger root. Now I suppose I should be upset that he even eats breakfast, making us somewhat similar. (Fortunately I have a large growth on my upper lip and some scowling scar on my forehead to tell us apart - does he have a gimp leg too and a facial tic? Have to look it up.)

Re: Saverin, just Google it, the info's there, all the hysteria's contrived by people who don't read enough or still layer on fantasy over basics.

First off, I love Johnny

The Decider — Tue, 22 May 2012 14:04:19 +0000

In reply to When Corporations Renounce Citizenship...

First off, I love Johnny Cash. Heh, heh! Second, I know that a lot of you are thinking of renounciating your citizenship because you are mad about Obama but don't do it! If you renounciate it, then you lose the right to vote. This urging people to do it is an Obama plot to try to win the election again. God bless the USA and its patriots--whether they are still citizens or have had to leave because of Obama's taxes.

Estimates are he would have

Peter Schwartz — Tue, 22 May 2012 12:16:25 +0000

In reply to From what I saw, he made his

Estimates are he would have paid $150 million to exit the US with $2.1 billion in current assets. If he had stayed a citizen, he wouldn't have paid that, but he would have paid more on IPO. Do I think he really cared whether it was $300 million? And don't you imagine if he gave a shit, he'd find another way to set up a tax-free trust or other mechanism?

I can't answer your question. But it seems like an odd one since, by your estimates, he reduced his tax bill by 50% by renouncing his citizenship in a country where he didn't want to live anyway. That strikes me as easier than setting up a trust.

Plus, it's unclear what the comparative tax advantages would have been in setting up a trust in this case vs paying exit taxes.

But it does seem you've been a bit unclear as whether he was about to owe taxes (on the IPO) or not. For a while, you seemed to be saying there were no taxes owed nor to be owed in the proximate future. It seems he was just about to owe taxes and more taxes than he ended up paying (by some amount--you say double the amount, which isn't nothing).

As to whether he knew an IPO was imminent and was planning ahead--who knows? He may not have. Then again, people who operate at that level tend to know a lot of things that regular people don't have access to.

PP, I think you've made some good points about the need for broad reform of the corporate tax code. Your defense of Saverin--were they the coffee purveyors?--is a bit weak, though I agree, he's not the big fish.

Your quip about eating breakfast like a Republican is a nice rhetorical parry, but it actually means, in this case, that you're happy to eat breakfast like Grover Norquist. You can't really be happy to eat like Grover and STILL complain about all the inequities in who pays taxes and who doesn't. Or maybe you aren't unhappy...

From what I saw, he made his

PP — Tue, 22 May 2012 02:10:18 +0000

In reply to So just to be clear, you're

From what I saw, he made his decision last September before Facebook (which he isn't part of for a long long time) decided to IPO, but actually filed in January, and it became public in April.

Estimates are he would have paid $150 million to exit the US with $2.1 billion in current assets. If he had stayed a citizen, he wouldn't have paid that, but he would have paid more on IPO. Do I think he really cared whether it was $300 million? And don't you imagine if he gave a shit, he'd find another way to set up a tax-free trust or other mechanism?

I don't think he's a hero or cheat - he's just someone who moved, and did what people do when they move, clean up loose ends.

Fox does nicely catalog all the ways Senators Dem & Rep move their assets around to avoid rightful state taxes - forgetting about Apple having a dummy office in Reno to run its earnings through instead of California with higher rates.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/05/17/elected-officials-can-join-facebooks-saverin-in-avoiding-taxes/

If he doesn't live in the US

PP — Tue, 22 May 2012 01:58:22 +0000

In reply to He just wants to live in

If he doesn't live in the US anymore, what does he owe to the US?

What services does the US government provide him?

Do you believe in the great city-state that follows us around?

Yes, he may save something on taxes on an upcoming IPO, but he moved to Singapore to move to Singapore. Over 3 years ago. Most countries have max 5 years to become new citizens. So completing his paperwork to save *PART* of the IPO proceeds from a country he no longer lives in makes financial sense.

And I noted that the Dept of Treasury's FBAR and FATCA reporting regulations make *most* American expats want to give up citizenship - the government can abscond with half of a bank account for a minor mistake in reporting, and they're assholes about it. Even IRS instructions to the contrary can't be used because they're 2 different branches of government, and they've successful screwed citizens because of it.

And just because Republicans eat breakfast doesn't mean I can't eat breakfast.

So just to be clear, you're

Peter Schwartz — Mon, 21 May 2012 21:23:06 +0000

In reply to When Corporations Renounce Citizenship...

So just to be clear, you're saying this is flat out wrong factually:

"Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin’s decision to renounce his U.S. citizenship just in time to avoid a large tax payment essentially means he will not be able to re-enter the United States again, immigration experts tell TPM."

You're saying there is no "large tax payment" looming...that he's paid all taxes he could be said to owe now or in the near future...and that the only thing in question is taxes he might owe way in the future if he remained a US citizen.

Do I have that right?

He just wants to live in

Peter Schwartz — Mon, 21 May 2012 21:10:31 +0000

In reply to For the umpteenth time,

He just wants to live in Singapore.

Every time you say this, I get sort of confused all over again.

Can't American citizens live in Singapore?

Or is he now becoming a Singaporean?

Or is it easier to live in Singapore IF he's some other nationality, like Brazilian?

(What nationality will he become, BTW?)

Anyway, if he's not skipping out on taxes, then I have no problem with what he's doing.

But I do wonder why Republicans are standing up for Saverin if he ISN'T skipping out on taxes. Like Grover, for example. THEY seem to think this is an anti-tax stand on Saverin's part.

Unless it's just a way to stick to Schumer on general principles. I don't THINK their base is crazy about foreign tax dodgers, do you?

Ron Paul would make it a

NCD — Mon, 21 May 2012 20:49:17 +0000

In reply to For the umpteenth time,

Ron Paul would make it a serious race, if the GOP had the guts to nominate a real conservative, instead of that etch-a-sketch former NE liberal guv. With Rand as a VP it would doubling down on real change, Paul, Paul, & maybe Pauls for the next 16 years.