dagblog - Comments for "Men Did Invent the Internet (and That’s a Huge Problem)"

Stealing someone else's

PeraclesPlease — Thu, 07 Jun 2012 07:01:20 +0000

Jeff // Jun 6, 2012 at 9:40 am

From Mark Perry:

The Council of Graduate Schools (CGS) released its annual report today, here are links to the press release and full report.

For the second year in a row, women earned a majority of all doctoral degrees in 2010 (51.9%), an increase from the 50.4% female share in 2009, which was the first time in history that women outnumbered men earning doctoral degrees (see top chart above)….

Men still outnumber women earning doctoral degrees in fields like Engineering (76.8%), Math and Computer Science (74.1%) and Physical Sciences (66.9%). …

Women represent 58.7% of all graduate students in the U.S., meaning that there are now 142.1 women enrolled in graduate school for every 100 men. In certain fields like Education (74.8% female), Health Sciences (79.8% female) and Public Administration (75.3%), women outnumber men by a factor of 3-4 times. Overall, women enrolled in graduate school outnumber men in 7 out of the 11 graduate fields of study, all except for business (45.9% female), engineering (22.3% female), math and computer science (29.2% female) and physical sciences (37.5% female).

Here’s a prediction: The fact that men are underrepresented in graduate school enrollment overall (100 men for every 142 women), and underrepresented in 7 out of 11 graduate fields of study will get almost no media attention at all. Additionally, there will be no calls for government studies, or increased government funding to address the problem, and nobody will refer to this gender graduate school enrollment gap as a “crisis.” But what will get media attention is the fact that women are underrepresented in four of the 11 fields of graduate study like engineering and computer science, which can likely be traced to some kind of overt or unexamined gender discrimination.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/09/142-women-enrolled-in-grad-school-per.html

I just said you could have

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 19:12:10 +0000

In reply to Geez PP thanks for coming

I just said you could have started your own Facebook & no one would have known you were a woman.

I said you could easily get a computer and rip it apart and no one could stop you from being a hacker.

But thanks for twisting my words as usual. Bitter. Clinging to guns. And religion.

Sure, I've had English majors over me for technical positions, and worse - yeah, it sucks. A few trendy phrases and they think they're an expert. Only a female experience? Ever read Dilbert?

Geez PP thanks for coming

tmccarthy0 — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:57:56 +0000

In reply to Not buying it. First,

Geez PP thanks for coming here and telling us how great it is for us. I mean all those years in school that Profs told me that because I was a woman I couldn't cut it in my field, all those faculty meetings where I was the only woman and men were shit heads and never acknowledged shit about women, and that boss I had out of academia, who couldn't believe I was a nerd because of my appearance, who didn't believe I could do simple algebra because I was a woman, his degree was in literature, I have one in applied mathematics, and he would still ask some man to check my work, what the hell do we know, men know our experience so much better.

Thanks for the info! Glad to you know you men out there are making sure you know just how great we have had it and we should just accept those facts as you men present them to us.

To be fair, we are closer to

EmmaZahn — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:34:04 +0000

In reply to It is true that we are worse

To be fair, we are closer to parity in our western, white-man society than any other. Also, have not seen any reports of widespread Unnatural Selection in western societies.

Not buying it. First,

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 07:20:03 +0000

In reply to Men Did Invent the Internet (and That’s a Huge Problem)

Not buying it.

First, "antiquated norms of femininity" - well, I thought Janis Joplin & Twiggy & Mother Theresa and Geraldine Ferraro and Sinead O'Conner and Patti Smith and Betty Blowtorch and Mairead Maguire were ushering in new norms. But largely they've been overshadowed by Kim Kardashian/Miley Cyrus. And I can't see that society is fighting this atrocity - my "new norm" was simply an aberration - Barbie is the norm, mildly upgraded to "Bratz" & Destiny's Child. I'm disgusted and disappointed, but what can I do? Cheer when there's an Angela Merkel or Benazir Bhutto, not much more.

Regarding STEM opportunities - women were well accepted in Computer Science 30 years ago (I remember a couple of classmates getting much better offers than I ever got, and database management systems especially had a high female enrollment), and on the Engineering side, especially around the Detroit area, there were a lot of capable female engineers. (I remember one dainty-looking blond classmate who could strip down & rebuild a car engine in about 2 hours, a female work colleague managing all the Sun network systems across the campus).

Nobody in the Open Source hacking community knows if you're a duck or an aardvark. Girls have the same opportunity I did to download & install free Linux and hack away - on the kernel, on GUI, on applications, on mobile ports, on databases, on extreme networking, on virtualization, on whatever cranks their tractor. But they didn't, or not in too major numbers. Anyone can set up a home internet business - as many women have - but we don't see so many women as co-founders of Facebook, Google, Twitter, MySpace - companies that required only 3 people & a core idea. No one said Wikileaks had to be fronted by a dude - they were all anonymous.

But in general, females have been less interested in hacking, playing metal guitar & drums (vs. only singing), working cars & bikes, and phreaking phone & cable systems (yes, illegal activities can form the basis of a great tech career).

Women haven't been locked out of high-level media positions, Web development & digital design - they're well represented. We also have a few examples of the Meg Whitmans & Carly Fiorinas, though fewer in the tech sphere. But that's choice as much as anything.

Oprah Winfrey's built up a monster media machine; Martha Stewart developed her empire, Arianna Huffington is the biggest name in internet media. But we keep coming back to STEM which is like our fixation on Math & Science, Science & Math for elementary schools.

The bigger problem is even after Project Management became a respected career in its own right, where Organization & Teamwork is now seen as important as programming skills, where hands-on experience including fuck-ups in technology or the arts is more important than theoretical grounding, we still fall back on our ideas of "what's right".

The female Internet will be created as women & girls create it - if it's Facebook user-focused, or a new paradigm in organization, or a network of social-focused resources, or a sudden blooming of STEM-based activity, I've no idea. But no one's holding them back. It's as far away as the Android/iPhone device in their pocket, a $100 all-in-one PC at WalMart. If they're interested, they'll find a way. That's the hacker ethic.

It is true that we are worse

trkingmomoe — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 06:03:56 +0000

In reply to Men Did Invent the Internet (and That’s a Huge Problem)

It is true that we are worse off because of our society's sexism. I am tired of the war on women that I have watched unfold in my adulthood. It is a good point to point out we would be so much farther ahead if we give everyone a chance that has talent not just white men. Thanks for pointing it out.