dagblog - Comments for "Respect Your Betters!"

I think that I was not clear.

jollyroger — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:09:26 +0000

In reply to Fair try retort to my crack

I think that I was not clear. FDR is not among my heroes-he was an all too effective agent of counter-revolution. That the plutos were short sighted enough to evince disdain perhaps facilitated the con which resulted in the touching anecdote...

I guess populism can be

EmmaZahn — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 06:31:03 +0000

In reply to Fair try retort to my crack

I guess populism can be rational or irrational, too. ;-D

Fair try retort to my crack

artappraiser — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 05:52:54 +0000

In reply to Another populist who gets

Fair try retort to my crack to you and pop culture, but not very accurate...

I'll would say that populists like Charles Coughlin "get under my skin." I would definitely call Huey Long a populist, as does Wikipedia, but he didn't live long enough and accomplish enough to "get under my skin" Neither of them ended up thinking much of Roosevelt, and I dare say they wouldn't think him populist.

And I agree with them on that, that he was far from a populist, though not because he was friendly to Jewish bankers or similar. He had awful rarified tastes, for one. I think he was more like an elite who had learned to speak to the pop culture. Eleanor proved to be far, far, far better at that, though, basically gave denounced her class rank. As I was trying to point out to Jolly Roger in a roundabout way: he was an elite, educated leader with many elite connections and many followers in the general population, just the kinda guy Brooks is whining about.

What I find especially funny about that DKos post is the use of "shrine." Now there I do suspect a little cynical populism and demagoguery on the part of "Psychiatrist," breathless with a plot on how to get all the masses involved....I don't read a lot of sincerity there, just the possibility of manipulation, and manipulation that wouldn't work, relying on an inaccurate reading of the population.

I'll admit does gets under my skin when, people adore individuals instead of venerating their accomplishments (hat tip: Roman Catholic Catechism.) See Emma's book quote. But it gets way way more under my skin when demagogues play to that.

And I'll also admit some of 2007-2008 Obama campaign rhetoric really "got under my skin" and it made me feel sad that so many people didn't see some of the usage as cynical. I don't know if I'd go so far as call it demagoguery, though, because the man had written two books, (as more than a few internet posts,) available to all, on where he really stood on such things.

Another populist who gets

Dan Kervick — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:04:32 +0000

In reply to P.S. I just did a quick

Another populist who gets under your skin AA?

PAIN IS THE AGENDA In

Resistance — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:40:21 +0000

In reply to Respect Your Betters!

PAIN IS THE AGENDA

In other words, it is necessary to put the division of labour and the distribution of its fruits beyond the reach of the electorate

The class war is on

I know this is out of place, but everyone should read this IN THE NEWS article

Handycapper General ?

cmaukonen — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:15:12 +0000

In reply to Thank you very much, Emma,

Handycapper General ?

P.S. I just did a quick

artappraiser — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:28:15 +0000

In reply to the first mass media

P.S. I just did a quick google and came across this example of the "worship of Saint FDR" variety from last Oct at Daily Kos, by--no joke--"candid pychiatrist":

....Imagine if the crowd at Zuccotti Park were to erect a large, visible shrine to FDR right in the middle of the plaza. No Che Quevara, no Arab Spring notable, no fringey sort of leftist figure, but the most beloved and popular POTUS in his own time the nation has known...

the first mass media

artappraiser — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:03:57 +0000

In reply to He was the first mass media

the first mass media President

Yes, that's an important part I left out of my rant above. Back in the early 70's as an undergrad I didn't have much interest in what was called "Mass Communications," but friends did. They were studying newfangled stuff like "the selling of the president," I would not be surprised if FDR Fireside chats were included at the start of such lectures.

Thank you very much, Emma,

artappraiser — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:57:16 +0000

In reply to Man for himself: an inquiry

Thank you very much, Emma, most excellent paragraph there. Really puts what I think in clear terms. Clearly, you got what I was getting at by popping up with that at the drop of a hat!

It is also getting at what troubles me about people saying they are "supporters" of individual politicians (rather than of the views and promises and judgments they are making at any one time.) It actually depresses me to see a smart person say/do that; the voter is supposed to be the higher up, the one hiring, and the politician the employee. If any support is being given, it is the politician who should be "supporting" his/her constituents, once hired to do so.

Our campaign system is just soooo fucked up from way before Citizens United, entangled with things like celebrity worship and rooting for sports teams and sports stars.

And that's without even getting into the whole thing of expecting the president to take care of everything, solve everything, to the point where that's really the only race many people care about and don't bother to vote in mid-terms. It's antithetical to our system, mho. It's no coincidence that that very much ramped up with FDR and the concurrent expansion of the Federal government; before him, our presidents beyond Lincoln and Washington were not seen by many as all powerful all knowing saviors, just as presidents and prime ministers are not in many other countries. Of course, the assassination of JKF is the crucial thing that really got the country looking for, as he says, "magic qualities" in a president.

Now, even though Obama is no longer a rock star to many, I haven't seen the problem go away totally. The way so many people obsess on blogs day after day over despising him or "supporting" him, or just constantly talking about him, and whether they will vote for him or not, to me that means the savior thing is still there, that people still invest too much supreme authority in the office of the president. </rant>

I'd pay to get close enough

jollyroger — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:56:32 +0000

In reply to He was the first mass media

I'd pay to get close enough to piss on the coffin...just returning the favor, as it were