dagblog - Comments for "One good reason the Feminist Movement had to Get Moving"

Thanks, Flower. Marking it

Ramona — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:37:22 +0000

In reply to A bit late out of the gate,

Thanks, Flower. Marking it for later, when I have some quiet time.

A bit late out of the gate,

wabby — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:32:52 +0000

In reply to One good reason the Feminist Movement had to Get Moving

A bit late out of the gate, but I just came across this from NPR:

How To Be A Woman by Caitlin Moran

Listen to the interview here.

I was just a little too young

EmmaZahn — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:32:36 +0000

In reply to I never saw Friedan and

I was just a little too young for both books but just about right for Gurley Brown's Cosmopolitan magazine.

The books I remember reading were Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex and Germaine Greer's The Female Eunuch, both assigned reading as was Mary Wollstonecraft's A Vindication of the Rights of Women. I also remember reading Erica Jong's Fear of Flying but not why. Probably just the zeitgeist.

I never really joined 'the movement' but was rather carried along with it like others my age. It really seemed then as though the major points had been made and would just need some time to work through the details. Still pretty much think that.

Dylan left Baez by the side

PeraclesPlease — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 04:33:44 +0000

In reply to I never saw Friedan and

Dylan left Baez by the side of the road - sad, but was he going to sing "Amazing Grace" for the next 40 years, or electric "Like a Rolling Stone" and Isis and Traveling Wilberies?

Often are heroes and gurus are to get us out of tight spaces, not to ride coattails forever more. No disrespect to them.

I never saw Friedan and

Ramona — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 00:11:54 +0000

In reply to That's why I told you. As

I never saw Friedan and Gurley-Brown as rivals, but I didn't follow them that closely. Friedan was first with the liberation message, and thus more important to women my age, but I got a real kick out of Helen Gurley-Brown. I loved watching her with her husband. Together they were a hoot.

Maybe I connected with Friedan most because I, too, did the stay-at-home mom thing until my kids were older. Nothing I'll ever regret, by any stretch. It was just "the way we were." And since I was married at 18, I had a hard time relating to "Sex and the Single Girl." In fact, I never read it.

Friedan's "Feminine Mystique" was an eye-opener for many of us, but Friedan herself got a little too cranky as time went on. But by that time I was a huge Steinem fan and I was one of those who left Betty by the side of the road. I guess I still feel bad about that, considering how important she was to the original movement.

That's why I told you. As

EmmaZahn — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:47:47 +0000

In reply to Didn't know she was chief

That's why I told you.

As for different turfs, I am reminded me of when my cousin who did the stay-at-home mom thing until her children were in college when she went back to work commuting in her BMW to a $5 per hour job when minimum wage was $6.55. People who worked for minimum wage really did not need that kind of competition. My cousin was blissfully unaware of it although she did note that it was difficult to bargain shop when working 9-5.

Didn't know she was chief

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:38:51 +0000

In reply to Nothing wrong with having

Didn't know she was chief critic - just thought they were working their own turf - don't single girls and stay-at-home moms need different muses? Anyway, nope, didn't know.

Nothing wrong with having

EmmaZahn — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:42:45 +0000

In reply to I guess Anomie works, but a

Nothing wrong with having both Friedan and Gurley-Brown.

Still, it's a bit rude inserting the chief critic of the recently deceased just after a eulogy, don't you think?

I guess Anomie works, but a

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:18:10 +0000

In reply to Anomie. There, the problem

I guess Anomie works, but a bit too general, not quite right The home setting was a specific case of even while doing everything right it felt horribly lacking and wrong. Certainly no "lack of social norms" - lots of 'em, without much worrying about women's opinion on them, and of course the homekeeper/breeder-raiser being the main forced norm.

Nothing wrong with having both Friedan and Gurley-Brown. Women are complex enough to have 8 or 10 or 30 cliques or stereotypes or environments or what-all, generalized, specialize, etc. Important that there was a breakthrough to something past norms into individualized behavior and support.

Anomie. There, the problem

EmmaZahn — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:02:36 +0000

In reply to Bob Somerby did a few days of

Anomie. There, the problem has a name. Thank Durkheim.

It is a common problem for the children whose parents have aspired to or reached a higher (maybe just different) social status as well as for those who were caught up in their wake.

Lots of anomie in the 50s and after and not just for women. WW2 and after was a major societal transition. It even reached my own little rural community that had been more or less static for over 100 years.

Still I think there is a major difference between Friedan's feminism and Gurley Brown's that was a result of their different life experiences. In fact it was in response to the criticism of Friedan and other second wavers that Gurley Brown said of her book:

This is how it was for me. This is how I played it. It’s just a pippy-poo little book and people come back with this diatribe about its great social significance. Well it’s just because nobody ever got off his high horse long enough to write to single women in any form they could associate with. If they had, somebody else would be the arbiter for single women at this point instead of me

One of my favorite quotes is from Susan B. Anthony:

"I never felt I could give up my life of freedom to become a man's housekeeper. When I was young, if a girl married poor she became a housekeeper and a drudge. If she married wealthy, she became a pet and a doll."

Check out their bios. Friedan and others like her were second-wave dolls. Gurley Brown was more like Anthony. She chose or maybe just embraced a different path by declining to be someone else's doll or drudge.

As I said, an interesting and remarkable woman.