dagblog - Comments for "Daily Kos: The 7 Sins of Occupy by clenchner"

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In reply to Daily Kos: The 7 Sins of Occupy by clenchner

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Well it's definitely true

Dan Kervick — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 04:10:39 +0000

In reply to Fair enough. I hereby amend

Well it's definitely true that the Obama administration and Dems in Congress have done virtually nothing to keep pressure on Wall Street, help homeowners, help debtors, etc. The non-performance of the Holder Justice Dept. has been criminal and shamelessly corrupt. Holder should be impeached, and I hope somebody makes a move to do so following the stupid election.

Fair enough. I hereby amend

erica20 — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 03:55:01 +0000

In reply to The total failure of the

Fair enough. I hereby amend my description to ""the abject failure of the democratic party to be more encouraging." ......or nurturing, or something.

i see what you guys are saying--it just felt like the dems could have done more to keep the focus on the 99%. Hindsight being 20/20, somebody should have organized something like "fans of ows" with the idea being that they would go, look on, be supportive, but if the weather turned or the cops showed up they'd run like hell. That group could have seized the communications opportunity to be the kinder, gentler ows.

Something like cows...cowards occupying wall street. Damn. Wish I'd thought of it at the time.

As much as I like dumping on

Dan Kervick — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:36:19 +0000

In reply to The total failure of the

As much as I like dumping on the Democratic Party, I have to agree. You can't back people who can't articulate a clear message or formulate clear goals.

In Spain, the protesters seem to have much clearer ideas about what they are fighting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19712203

The total failure of the

Elusive Trope — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:22:32 +0000

In reply to Yeah, for some reason they

The total failure of the Democratic party to take up their cause didn't help them, either.

It's hard to take up someone's cause when they won't be specific about what exactly that cause is. Something Romney is finding out. When reporters would ask them what their agenda was (as opposed to what the problem was), the response was some variation of 'we're working on that and we'll get back to you." Those times there was a list, it was the complete list from undoing wall street to the environment to every social justice cause. Pretty much nothing on the list was an unworthy cause, but you can't fight all of the battles with one movement.

I would also add the added anarchist slant that was always present, represented by the Guy Fawkes masks (an individual that advocated the use of terrorist actions) ensured that no mainstream politician or insider from the Democratic Party would align the brand with the movement - if not for what was done in some actions, then for some potential violence that might take place (see the Oakland demonstrators that took over a building after a very successful and peaceful march earlier that day).

Yeah, for some reason they

erica20 — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:13:52 +0000

In reply to The Julian Assange business

Yeah, for some reason they didn't understand what they had when a large portion of the US population was watching them in rapt attention and coming to terms with what it meant to be part of the 99%. And then suddenly the OWS people were off being "the other 1%." It was a real waste of a huge opportunity.

If they just wanted to do demonstrations and slogans, that's what they should have done. (I remember somebody saying back when that the best thing for OWS to do was nothing at all, that it should remain an idea and not try to invent itself. Was that you, Aunt Sam?) But they needed to let the 99% own the 99% idea, and they seemed really unwilling to let it go. The needed to either genuinely organize, or they needed to say "We're here being the 99% in our way. We support you in yours." But all that anti-capitalism stuff was never gonna fly.

The total failure of the Democratic party to take up their cause didn't help them, either.

Really we ARE lucky that the Romnicans are in such bad shape right now. We had a lot of chances to lose this thing. And after the (hopefully victorious) election, as Wattree pointed out, we are going to need to make a coherent plan about what to do about poor people, instead of sticking with "well, we're better at it than the Republicans would be," which, to be honest is working pretty well as a campaign but is not actual governing......

I think OWS is indicative of

cmaukonen — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:59:21 +0000

In reply to Daily Kos: The 7 Sins of Occupy by clenchner

I think OWS is indicative of the state of "Liberalism" in this country.

Unfortunately, there is considerable evidence to suggest that La-La Liberalism is by no means unique to Vermont. Consider the recent Democratic Convention in Charlotte, NC which was long on rhetoric about gays, women, and minorities and short on specific proposals to jump start the economy, create more jobs, and tighten regulations on Wall Street banks.

All too little attention was devoted to foreign policy including the Middle East, our unconditional support for Israel, China’s global pursuit of natural resources, and what we will do if China cuts back on its purchases of U.S. debt.

Another hot spot for La-La Liberals is MSNBC. With the possible exception of Chris Hayes, all of the other MSNBC news analysts are La-La Liberals including Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Lawrence O’Donnell, Al Sharpton, and Melissa Harris-Perry. They are all unconditional apologists for Obama and have no problem whatsoever conflating the advocacy of human rights abroad with American hegemony so as to justify our foreign policies of full spectrum dominance, imperial overstretch, and might makes right.

Fortunately, the future for La-La Liberalism and most other liberals is bleak. So long as they continue to support the Empire and the belief that it is truly fixable, then they are dead in the water. But so too are conservatives who believe that all we need do is cut taxes and spending, and we will all live happily ever after.

The Cold War left-right, liberal-conservative paradigm has no meaning anymore. There is only one important issue on the table and that is human scale.

Yeppers. Ten degrees left of center when times are good, ~~ten~~ twenty degrees right of center when it effects them personally.

Liberalism - The new Reactionary.

I simply meant someone to

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:15:24 +0000

In reply to The Julian Assange business

I simply meant someone to provide a face to the movement, keep a direction on organization. Keep the members from going off to soup kitchens or choir practice to perfect their "hey ho, hey ho, _____ has got to go" shouts.

The Julian Assange business

Dan Kervick — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:03:01 +0000

In reply to Occupy is roughly equivalent

The Julian Assange business was just one of many distractions that frittered away a golden opportunity.

The OWS folks seems unaware of what brought them attention in the first place. It was the 99% business. For a brief time they were speaking to a broad, multigenerational cross-section of Americans on an economic level: people who are worried about their own debts, about their jobs, about the general lack of jobs, about bankruptcy, about their lost homes, about their futures, about their childrens' and grandchildren's futures, about our declining standard standard of living, and about the outrageous profiteering of a privileged gang of parasites in the financial sector. These were deep issues, but they were also pocketbook issues affecting most Americans.

But then OWS decided to turn the movement into just another antiauthoritarian, anarchist street drama. People might or might not give a shit about Julian Assange, but for a guy or gal who lost a house to robosigning, or is waiting in an unemployment office, or just had to pull a kid out of college because they can't afford it, or had to eat a pay cut while his CEO went on a vacation to Aspen and Europe, Julian Assange means nothing.

Occupy is roughly equivalent

PeraclesPlease — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 06:24:13 +0000

In reply to Occupy is an extremely young

Occupy is roughly equivalent to Dean's campaign crew back in 2004 - nice energy for a while, peaked and died. Might be recycled into something useful, might not.

The needed a Julian Assange, among other things. It's nice to wear Guy Fawkes masks, but people follow personalities in the end, not organizations. Too impersonal.

Will think about the "dumb as shit" line. Are universities really so 2nd rate now? Or you mean non-college grads, or just the level in grade school/high school?